Fair assessment of Bolster!

[Asturias]

OP says that he likes lateral gear progression. Not vertical.

 

Better stats is vertical. Different stats is lateral.

 

I like them both to honest and wish it was as complicated, which I felt it was before bolster. MIN/MAX, hard cap and soft cap numbers, number crunching and gear progression achievment. I love that ****

 

Thanks for the reply

Edited June 24, 2013 by Asturias

[Elow]

Bolster is easy to fix at 55 if they would just do this:

 

1. Wearing a PvE piece gives you no more than 2/3 the total available expertise for that slot. Keeps you from getting steam rolled, but doesn't put you on par with PvP gear completely.

2. No gear in a WZ can be better than the highest current PvP tier. Scale the gear according to the tiering in the game: Highest PvE gear becomes highest PvP level with 2/3 expertise (see above). Scale down accordingly for additional levels of gear.

 

Boom. Done.

[Ulrah]

Seems to me like they should have just rebalanced the stats on pvp gear, instead of going the "bolster" route. Just reduce the difference between pvp and pve gear, and you accomplish basically the same thing. Gear is still optimized for the activity you earned it through, without being useless in the other.

[Asturias]

Bolster is easy to fix at 55 if they would just do this:

 

1. Wearing a PvE piece gives you no more than 2/3 the total available expertise for that slot. Keeps you from getting steam rolled, but doesn't put you on par with PvP gear completely.

2. No gear in a WZ can be better than the highest current PvP tier. Scale the gear according to the tiering in the game: Highest PvE gear becomes highest PvP level with 2/3 expertise (see above). Scale down accordingly for additional levels of gear.

 

Boom. Done.

Everything you said sounds great and wonderful but why not just get rid of bolster all together and scale down expertise.

 

Thanks for posting

Edited June 24, 2013 by Asturias

[Elow]

Everything you said sounds great and wonderful but why not just get rid of bolster all together and scale down expertise.

 

Thanks for posting

 

Because they want more of the game to be accessible to casual players. My suggestion allows that and still keeps gear progression intact for actual PvPers.

[SithKerr]

I read some people say well, I should be able to have my PVE gear and go into a WZ and still be competitive. Then the same should be true for people who like to PVP a lot and do occasional PVE bosses. Our PVP gear should be on equal footing with power/damage etc for those circumstances.

 

Either make PVP gear for PVP players or scratch the whole system. Don't make me go into WZ's and gear up for PVP, taking time and effort to get gear, having a sense of accomplishment, only to see a decked out person with level 54 gear and do better.

 

Yes, since I have found the bugs in bolster, I go into WZ's now with lower level gear and do a lot more damage with the free bolster I get in WZ's now. I exploit the hell out of it. Guess what, it's legal and everyone should do it.

[Elow]

I read some people say well, I should be able to have my PVE gear and go into a WZ and still be competitive. Then the same should be true for people who like to PVP a lot and do occasional PVE bosses. Our PVP gear should be on equal footing with power/damage etc for those circumstances.

 

Either make PVP gear for PVP players or scratch the whole system. Don't make me go into WZ's and gear up for PVP, taking time and effort to get gear, having a sense of accomplishment, only to see a decked out person with level 54 gear and do better.

 

Yes, since I have found the bugs in bolster, I go into WZ's now with lower level gear and do a lot more damage with the free bolster I get in WZ's now. I exploit the hell out of it. Guess what, it's legal and everyone should do it.

 

"Fixed" tomorrow allegedly.

[Jherad]

Things I like about bolster:

 

 

The idea that everyone should be boosted to a minimum competitive level for PvP. That's a noble goal that I fully support.

 

Things I don't like about bolster:

 

Absolutely everything else, whether it be in the design, implementation, bugs or complete lack of transparency.

 

I'd be hard pressed to think of a crappier system to resolve the stated ideal. Not only is it bug-ridden, but its inner workings are like some kind of ludicrous Rube Goldberg machine. 'Upgrade' a piece of gear (or laughably, worse, an armoring, hilt/barrel, mod or enhancement), spin the wheel of fortune and find out whether bolster has ****ed you over, or given you some kind of ridiculous advantage!

 

Working as intended? Who the hell knows. As usual, the devs are about as useful as a chocolate teapot when it comes to divulging information.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Jherad

[Sarielle]

All PvP gear grinds do is discourage people from getting into it into the first place. Is a new player more likely to:

 

A) Log into PvP, be horribly outstatted (and likely outplayed too) to the point they implode ... and then realize they must continue to do that daily for X number of weeks before they can hope to be competitive and actually do that

 

OR

 

B) Log into PvP, be outplayed but able to adjust playstyle and see results, and realize they can compete reasonably well as long as they learn their class, and keep having fun and queuing up

 

PvP without enough players to support it sucks. If you want PvP to thrive, you need to eliminate gear gating and add a cosmetic progression instead -- sort of what we've already got with titles and speeders, but make really cool skins that people would love to "work" for. Right now the PvP stuff isn't bad, but nothing makes me go "OMG, DO WANT" except one of the level 40-ish lightsaber hilts.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Sarielle

[Razamatazz]

Bolster in the level 55 bracket seems silly to me, it's the big boy league, time to be a big boy . That being said people are right, it's no fun to simply get steam rolled by people in gear that significantly out does yours.

 

My suggestion would be to remove bolster in the 55 bracket (Be a big boy, you can do it) and make it so you can exchange classic commendations at a 3:1 rate for WZ commendations (Rate could be adjusted to fit the time it takes to gear). Something like a recruit set could be given at 55 to help you get started if you decide to PvP to your gear but you have the option to grind out comm's via PvE to be viable in PvP as well. You would want to make it so that going the Classic ---> WZ commendation route would be longer and more tedious, but would give people who don't want to get steamrolled/face constant uphill battles a chance to get into PvP. It would also provide people who have done a lot of PvE, and are at the top of that game the ability to hop into PvP without being terribly gimped, something that after all the time they've spent making their character great they likely wouldn't enjoy.

 

My $.02

[AlyxDinas]

By 55's there should be some type of gap between people bolstered and people in proper gear. Not enough to be overly punishing but just enough to incentivize progression towards getting your armor.

 

After that's done, expertise gained by PvP armor should be set in stone. All variation comes from customization, which newer tiers of armor offering unique looks that players will value enough to get the next set if they want to. Seriously, offer enough looks and you'll do enough.

 

Players who want a specific look will play longer to get it, people who are completionists will play to get all of it, and players who care only about PvP itself will just be able to play. If you make things for achievements or ranks, they'll play even harder.

 

This is one of the things that GW2 does right. PvP, structured, revolves around skill trees, slotted runes and sigils, and that's it. Everyone's technically top level. Everyone has access to the same stuff. if you're good, you've either crafted a solid build or are just a good player.

 

SWTOR could learn from that. Bolster is a good form of parity in theory but it needs consistency. And by the time of 55 level PvP, you normalize and cut the bull.

[Arox]

Once you hit 55. Bolster should no longer be present.

 

Training wheels and support are off and its time to take the hits. Get the gear and become a man.

[Asturias]

All PvP gear grinds do is discourage people from getting into it into the first place. Is a new player more likely to:

 

A) Log into PvP, be horribly outstatted (and likely outplayed too) to the point they implode ... and then realize they must continue to do that daily for X number of weeks before they can hope to be competitive and actually do that

 

OR

 

B) Log into PvP, be outplayed but able to adjust playstyle and see results, and realize they can compete reasonably well as long as they learn their class, and keep having fun and queuing up

 

PvP without enough players to support it sucks. If you want PvP to thrive, you need to eliminate gear gating and add a cosmetic progression instead -- sort of what we've already got with titles and speeders, but make really cool skins that people would love to "work" for. Right now the PvP stuff isn't bad, but nothing makes me go "OMG, DO WANT" except one of the level 40-ish lightsaber hilts.

 

Than the question is, is it really a gear issue or a player issue( I believe its a Player issue).

 

I see on these forums time and time again "Nerf this class, nerf that class" even after bolster has been introduced. You still have forums on here pertaining to "Pre-made groups" ruining PvP and the same old issues regarding PvP.

 

you really want those players dictating competitive PvP? Because a good player will adapt.

 

Its seems the vocal bunch of people who advocated for "Bolster" still complain and point fingers at others.

 

So I ask you why ruin the competitive side of PvP with Bolster at end game. Where does BioWARE say enough is enough and say "NO" to this group of people?

 

Thanks for posting and good input

Edited June 25, 2013 by Asturias

[Asturias]

Things I like about bolster:

 

 

The idea that everyone should be boosted to a minimum competitive level for PvP. That's a noble goal that I fully support.

 

Things I don't like about bolster:

 

Absolutely everything else, whether it be in the design, implementation, bugs or complete lack of transparency.

 

I'd be hard pressed to think of a crappier system to resolve the stated ideal. Not only is it bug-ridden, but its inner workings are like some kind of ludicrous Rube Goldberg machine. 'Upgrade' a piece of gear (or laughably, worse, an armoring, hilt/barrel, mod or enhancement), spin the wheel of fortune and find out whether bolster has ****ed you over, or given you some kind of ridiculous advantage!

 

Working as intended? Who the hell knows. As usual, the devs are about as useful as a chocolate teapot when it comes to divulging information.

 

I agree here and I give credit to BioWARE for making a leap of faith but I think its not the right direction the PvP side of the game should go for competitive PvP at end game.

 

Progression, Progression, progression.

 

Thanks for posting

Edited June 25, 2013 by Asturias

[Asturias]

Bolster in the level 55 bracket seems silly to me, it's the big boy league, time to be a big boy . That being said people are right, it's no fun to simply get steam rolled by people in gear that significantly out does yours.

 

My suggestion would be to remove bolster in the 55 bracket (Be a big boy, you can do it) and make it so you can exchange classic commendations at a 3:1 rate for WZ commendations (Rate could be adjusted to fit the time it takes to gear). Something like a recruit set could be given at 55 to help you get started if you decide to PvP to your gear but you have the option to grind out comm's via PvE to be viable in PvP as well. You would want to make it so that going the Classic ---> WZ commendation route would be longer and more tedious, but would give people who don't want to get steamrolled/face constant uphill battles a chance to get into PvP. It would also provide people who have done a lot of PvE, and are at the top of that game the ability to hop into PvP without being terribly gimped, something that after all the time they've spent making their character great they likely wouldn't enjoy.

 

My $.02

Thats what we need my friend.

 

Thanks for posting and good suggestions

Edited June 25, 2013 by Asturias

[Asturias]

Once you hit 55. Bolster should no longer be present.

 

Training wheels and support are off and its time to take the hits. Get the gear and become a man.

 

Couldn't agree more and it seems more and more people on this topic is looking for competitive progression or something of that nature for end game PvP.

 

Thanks for posting bud

Edited June 25, 2013 by Asturias

[Asturias]

By 55's there should be some type of gap between people bolstered and people in proper gear. Not enough to be overly punishing but just enough to incentivize progression towards getting your armor.

 

After that's done, expertise gained by PvP armor should be set in stone. All variation comes from customization, which newer tiers of armor offering unique looks that players will value enough to get the next set if they want to. Seriously, offer enough looks and you'll do enough.

 

Players who want a specific look will play longer to get it, people who are completionists will play to get all of it, and players who care only about PvP itself will just be able to play. If you make things for achievements or ranks, they'll play even harder.

 

This is one of the things that GW2 does right. PvP, structured, revolves around skill trees, slotted runes and sigils, and that's it. Everyone's technically top level. Everyone has access to the same stuff. if you're good, you've either crafted a solid build or are just a good player.

 

SWTOR could learn from that. Bolster is a good form of parity in theory but it needs consistency. And by the time of 55 level PvP, you normalize and cut the bull.

 

Never hurts to steal a few play's out of a competitors play book. Its what made WoW king and 9/10 times they improved on original idea they stole.

 

SWTOR has enough to show originality of its own.

 

Good input and thanks for posting

Edited June 25, 2013 by Asturias

[jolleebindu]

Couldn't agree more and it seems more and more people on this topic is looking for competitive progression or something of that nature for end game PvP.

 

Thanks for posting bud

 

i agree that bolster could be used as "training wheels," but the idea that players would be experienced in pvp at max lvl ignores the fact that players can level to 55 w/o doing any pvp

 

i can see something being present to allow these players the chance to more easily enter into pvp - however, why does bolster exist in ranked? idk

[byteresistor]

Couldn't agree more and it seems more and more people on this topic is looking for competitive progression or something of that nature for end game PvP.

Without bolster fighting an uphill battle against opponents geared to the teeth with expertise hardly counts as "competitive" progression.

Edited June 25, 2013 by byteresistor

[Atramar]

Without bolster fighting an uphill battle against opponents geared to the teeth with expertise hardly counts as "competitive" progression.

 

That's what they want. Easy wins with low geared people, easy excuse if they lose (that damn premade is over geared).

pvp gear is still better then pve gear. Difference is to small for low skilled player to win simply with their gear, and that is what makes them angry.

[Ottoattack]

I keep hearing that the purpose of the bolster at 55 is even the grounds. If that is the case I have a couple of questions:

 

1- Why do we have PvP gear? Why does not the game just remove it, remove expertise and anyone walking in the WZ gets his/her stats bolstered to level 75 gear.

2- Why do PvE gear peaks in performance in WZs between levels 58 to 63, then loses so much expertise compared to stats gained afterwards? Someone in level 63 PvE gear is way much stronger than someone in level 69 PvE gear.

3- Why is not max PvP gear level 75 like max PvE gear?

4- Why is PvP gear almost unusable outside of WZs. It can barley pull the player through SM operations.

5- Why are we 80 days after the expansion trying to figure out what is the BiS gear in WZs?

 

I can not figure out the answer for these questions. Before the expansion, the primary issue with gearing for PvP was the high entry barrier at max level. Now...

Edited June 25, 2013 by Ottoattack

[Atramar]

I keep hearing that the purpose of the bolster at 55 is even the grounds. If that is the case I have a couple of questions:

 

1- Why do we have PvP gear? Why does not the game just remove it, remove expertise and anyone walking in the WZ gets his/her stats bolstered to level 75 gear.

2- Why do PvE gear peaks in performance in WZs between levels 58 to 63, then loses so much expertise compared to stats gained afterwards? Someone in level 63 PvE gear is way much stronger than someone in level 69 PvE gear.

3- Why is not max PvP gear level 75 like max PvE gear?

4- Why is PvP gear almost unusable outside of WZs. It can barley pull the player through SM operations.

5- Why are we 80 days after the expansion trying to figure out what is the BiS gear in WZs?

 

I can not figure out the answer for these questions. Before the expansion, the primary issue with gearing for PvP was the high entry barrier at max level. Now...

 

1. pvp gear is better for pvp.

2.pve gear 69 has less expertiese then 63

3.these are the rules, pve gear is quicker to obtain by far.

4.see point 3.

5.maybe you are. improve skill not gear.

 

there you go.

[funkiestj]

i'd suggest having bolster applied when you are "in combat" with the pvp dummy

 

Not half as good as the idea "scrap endgame bolster" but an interesting idea none the less.

[Asturias]

1. pvp gear is better for pvp.

2.pve gear 69 has less expertiese then 63

3.these are the rules, pve gear is quicker to obtain by far.

4.see point 3.

5.maybe you are. improve skill not gear.

 

there you go.

 

My concern with bolster is it creates nothing to strive for at end game. A minor few points added isn't enough to make people play. You might attract a few non PvPers but it lacks complexity and diversity and worse no challenge for PvPers.

 

As a PvP player I look for complexity in a game and bolster doesn't provide it for me. I don't want easy mode I want a challenge and something to look for and strive for. To me that is MMO PvP gaming.

 

Good talk and thanks for posting:D

Edited June 26, 2013 by Asturias

[Vikassi]

Bolster is great for 54 and under .. Once you hit 55, i have no clue why its there ..