If what George Lucas said is absolute...

[Lathari]

Does that mean if he said that the average youngling was about 1000 times more powerful than obi wan kenobi would that be unquestionable law according to George Lucas' worshippers

[Aurbere]

So apparently people who follow the rules and statements set forth by George Lucas are 'Lucas worshippers?' I guess I must be a (insert world leader here) worshipper because I obey the law.

 

In regards to your question, yes. But I doubt Lucas would make such a statement.

[mefit]

 

George Lucas's word no longer applies , he sold his company and properties within it to Disney ! Now it's up to them to follow already set guildlines ( likely ) or move forward with their own .

 

Say if George Lucas said that JarJar is more powerful than Darth Maul ......Disney could be like " No way " and that would be the law of the land .

Of course their will be a bunch of fanboys running around ignoring Disney's decision but ......... That would be completely stupid and get no one anywhere !

 

 

 

 

 

 

Before some fanboy says it , there is no contract that gives George Lucas power over Disney . That would be ownership and no one buys a 4billion plus company to allow the past owner any say ! There is no contract because it would have been said by Disney or Lucas by now............get over it

 

 

[October]

George Lucas's word no longer applies , he sold his company and properties within it to Disney ! Now it's up to them to follow already set guildlines ( likely ) or move forward with their own .

 

Say if George Lucas said that JarJar is more powerful than Darth Maul ......Disney could be like " No way " and that would be the law of the land .

Of course their will be a bunch of fanboys running around ignoring Disney's decision but ......... That would be completely stupid and get no one anywhere !

 

Before some fanboy says it , there is no contract that gives George Lucas power over Disney . That would be ownership and no one buys a 4billion plus company to allow the past owner any say ! There is no contract because it would have been said by Disney or Lucas by now............get over it

I'm not a Lucas fanboy, but I don't believe this is entirely accurate. Lucas has already said that, though he may have sold the company to Disney, they all sit down with him and as they consult with him he explains what they can and can't do, that such and such works this way and not that, etc.

[Xeperi]

I think it all is a bit out of Lucas' hands now. Things like this, once created, take a life of their own. I think the Creator of such a thing can lay down general principles, can define the "spirit" of the law, but by then the thing already has its own life, its own law. Lucas put the dna in SW and that is about all. Any good creator breathes life into his creation and then sets it free. Look at Gygax.

[AlexDougherty]

I'm not a Lucas fanboy, but I don't believe this is entirely accurate. Lucas has already said that, though he may have sold the company to Disney, they all sit down with him and as they consult with him he explains what they can and can't do, that such and such works this way and not that, etc.

 

Disney does consult with Lucas, but apart from some codicils in the sale of the Starwars IP, he has no actual say in whats canon or not.

 

We don't know what's those legal codicils, but we can guess at somethings, like Yoda's race never being named, Luke becomes the most powerful force user of all time, the rules about the darkside and redemption, etc.

Edited June 9, 2013 by AlexDougherty

[Beniboybling]

I assume you follow the laws of your country, yes? Well if that country dictated to you that slavery was mandatory would you accept it? I'd assume not. Likewise if Lucas told me that the Jar Jar Binks was actually a Force-sensitive God I would not accept it.

 

However I respect the law as a necessary to stave off anarchy and chaos and prevent the immoral. Likewise I respect the canon system as necessary to stave of anarchy and chaos in the Star Wars universe and prevent the ridiculous and far-fetched from being admitted.

 

So, as Obi-Wan Kenobi once said, you need to go home and rethink your life.

[Beniboybling]

Before some fanboy says it , there is no contract that gives George Lucas power over Disney . That would be ownership and no one buys a 4billion plus company to allow the past owner any say ! There is no contract because it would have been said by Disney or Lucas by now............get over it.

So by that logic, the only thing written down in that contract is 'Disney own Lucasarts' in big letters. OK. Companies don't have to reveal to the public exactly what is in that contract. And from what we know of George Lucas, and just be applying some logic, it's highly likely that Lucas put in place some measures to protect his intellectual property.

 

And even if he hasn't, the U.S. Copyright Act prevents his work from being unduly tampered with regardless of whether he owns it or not. This law may be rarely exercised in America but I can't see Disney running the risk of going to court by not respecting Lucas' work. So don't expect Mickey Mouse to be appearing in Star Wars anytime soon.

[mefit]

So by that logic, the only thing written down in that contract is 'Disney own Lucasarts' in big letters. OK. Companies don't have to reveal to the public exactly what is in that contract. And from what we know of George Lucas, and just be applying some logic, it's highly likely that Lucas put in place some measures to protect his intellectual property.

 

And even if he hasn't, the U.S. Copyright Act prevents his work from being unduly tampered with regardless of whether he owns it or not. This law may be rarely exercised in America but I can't see Disney running the risk of going to court by not respecting Lucas' work. So don't expect Mickey Mouse to be appearing in Star Wars anytime soon.

 

Lets go over this ,

I have bought Property before .

US Laws have little to do with Movie , Books this nature (Comics, Games , Cartoons) , etc.

(While Star Wars is no small deal (After all it was bought for 4billion +) , it is a Changing Property built on a growing world that can be written and reworked at any moment Lucas felt like and now Disney.

 

Usually large buys like this one are made Public Knowledge but being this one has no effect on the economy or persons in this country , there is nothing the USA Government both Federal or State have say in such a matter.

 

LucasArts Buyout is not a rare thing either and other Properties that have changed hands have been changed by current owners .

Stan Lee has no control over the Hulk , Spiderman , X-men...........etc . They keep him on but purely out of his popularity , he has little to no say within Marvel . PERIOD

 

How Disney treats LA Properties is completely up to Disney . They are keeping Lucas on as a Consultant , look up the word if you need further identifying of his job . Lucas had to be paid to do it at that , he had no intention of sticking around .

 

Again Disney is likely to follow core rules and laws of the Star Wars universe but this does not say that , Yoda's race will never be revealed or the Powerful who and who will remain.

 

Matter of Fact this does not mean at all that Luke Skywalker will remain god like . Does not mean he will lose the top spot either .

After all most of EU was not what Lucas intended in the first place .

 

If I was today to buy TMNT , I could change it how I see fit and make the Shredder Splitter's dad ...........or the otherway around .

If I was to buy DC , I could make Superman the weakest in the Universe .

(DC just settled the issue they had with the Superman Property because they did not fully own it)

(Unlike DC , Disney Fully Owns LucasArts and it's Properties )

 

Ofcourse there would be Fans Lashing back to deal with , but that's nothing new to Star Wars ..............................

 

Edit: No matter what you or anyone believes , it was a Property bought and paid for that can be changed at will if they do desired , this does not mean its going to happen . You do not buy something for billions to destroy or change the recipe that made it good.

With that they could change the Prequels and keep to the originals , seeing how every fan under the sun or on gods green earth just about like the OT better than the PT .

I am rare and like both.

 

So in the long run these Threads are stupid , Disney did not buy something for that much to destroy it .

 

Edited June 9, 2013 by mefit

[mefit]

Disney does consult with Lucas, but apart from some codicils in the sale of the Starwars IP, he has no actual say in whats canon or not.

 

We don't know what's those legal codicils, but we can guess at somethings, like Yoda's race never being named, Luke becomes the most powerful force user of all time, the rules about the darkside and redemption, etc.

 

Leland Chee has more say at this point in Canon than George Lucas as Leland is still a paid fulltime employee of LucasArts .

Agree with everything this person just said. Sanity in StarWars , who would thought !

[Beniboybling]

No matter what you or anyone believes , it was a Property bought and paid for that can be changed at will if they do desired , this does not mean its going to happen . You do not buy something for billions to destroy or change the recipe that made it good.

With that they could change the Prequels and keep to the originals , seeing how every fan under the sun or on gods green earth just about like the OT better than the PT .

I am rare and like both.

 

So in the long run these Threads are stupid , Disney did not buy something for that much to destroy it .

I agree with most of what your're saying except this. We have no evidence to suggest that this is the case, we don't what's in the contract, we don't know what clauses have been put in place. What we do know is that there are laws protecting intellectual property (which for the record is movies, games, comics, books etc. that's what the laws covers) and that Lucas would be foolish not to protect his creation. So I wouldn't just go ahead and say Disney can do what ever the hell they want, because you lack the evidence to support this, and logic would imply otherwise.

 

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say one of these clauses say that G-Canon cannot be overrided (AKA the movies) and that the continuity system must remain intact. I mean do you really think George Lucas would give Star Wars away knowing that they could literally dictate that the Prequel Trilogy never happened? Would you if you were in his position? He may believe that they would out of good will, but in the world of business good will doesn't cut it.

 

Indeed the very word 'contract' suggests some sort of agreement of this kind.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

I agree with most of what your're saying accept this. We have no evidence to suggest that this is the case, we don't what's in the contract, we don't know what clauses have been put in place. What we do know is that there are laws protecting intellectual property (which for the record is movies, games, comics, books etc. that's what the laws covers) and that Lucas would be foolish not to protect his creation. So I wouldn't just go ahead and say Disney can do what ever the hell they want, because you lack the evidence to support this, and logic would imply otherwise.

 

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say one of these clauses say that G-Canon cannot be overrided (AKA the movies) and that the continuity system must remain intact. I mean do you really think George Lucas would give Star Wars away knowing that they could literally dictate that the Prequel Trilogy never happened? Would you if you were in his position? He may believe that they would out of good will, but in the world of business good will doesn't cut it.

 

Indeed the very word 'contract' suggests some sort of agreement of this kind.

 

Except*

 

But anyhow, it would be moronic for a creator not to have some say over what happens to something that said creator....created even if they sold it.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Except*

 

But anyhow, it would be moronic for a creator not to have some say over what happens to something that said creator....created even if they sold it.

*quickly edits*

 

But yes I agree, especially given the strict manner in which Lucas 'governs' his universe. I mean what other franchise as a gosh darn canon system? Let alone a continuity database.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Beniboybling

[mefit]

I agree with most of what your're saying accept this. We have no evidence to suggest that this is the case, we don't what's in the contract, we don't know what clauses have been put in place. What we do know is that there are laws protecting intellectual property (which for the record is movies, games, comics, books etc. that's what the laws covers) and that Lucas would be foolish not to protect his creation. So I wouldn't just go ahead and say Disney can do what ever the hell they want, because you lack the evidence to support this, and logic would imply otherwise.

 

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say one of these clauses say that G-Canon cannot be overrided (AKA the movies) and that the continuity system must remain intact. I mean do you really think George Lucas would give Star Wars away knowing that they could literally dictate that the Prequel Trilogy never happened? Would you if you were in his position? He may believe that they would out of good will, but in the world of business good will doesn't cut it.

 

Indeed the very word 'contract' suggests some sort of agreement of this kind.

 

There is also no proof of a contract , as that would be entirely rare in this type of property . I am fully sure if there was one it would be out in the open . Disney possibly would even released it so the G-Cannon Fanboys would be at ease . It would have been used as of now as Damage Control , but there is 0 Mention of it and usually with the purchase of properties like this , there is usually none or little .

Usually there is a Royalty add in on the sale , and a security of the originals . Kinda like Music and remixes , covers .

 

In the end the fact that people are saying there is a contract with no proof of the matter , is worse than people saying there is none . Because at this point there is nothing being said and likely nothing to be said because there is nothing.

Rule of Law !

 

Again the only thing likely to remain G-Canon or Canon for that matter is what Happened in EP1-6 . Not the wording outside of it , and likely a lot of EU will be dismissed .

How much EU is gone , we will never know .

My hopes is much of EU remains intact .

But really a lot of EU can use some Rework .

I as usual would like to see a Full out Stats of Revan so we can finally get a ending to this tail . The whole Yoda Race Mystery is stupid and really not something I care about so it can remain the same.

Why do I say it is stupid ?

How many of his race have we seen now ? No one bothered to ask , where the F are you from ?

Yea that's stupid.

 

I think the whole most powerful Sith , Jedi thing is stupid . Leaves little room for ideas and exploration of the Characters or to move forward with a story without having to go the Dragon Ball Z route which is really really lame.

 

I really Doubt Disney will keep with the Most Powerful wording , as it is a story killer . Does not mean I wish Luke Skywalker to be killed off if this was to happen , just means I wish to see him back to ROTJ state .

Is that so wrong ? I think not !

[Wolfninjajedi]

*quickly edits*

 

But yes I agree, especially given the strict manner in which Lucas 'governs' his universe. I mean what other franchise as a gosh darn canon system? Let alone a continuity database.

 

Well DC/Marvel has one...well to an extent anyway, its not as extensive as Star Wars. But they do dictate what is canon and what is non-canon.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[mefit]

*quickly edits*

 

But yes I agree, especially given the strict manner in which Lucas 'governs' his universe. I mean what other franchise as a gosh darn canon system? Let alone a continuity database.

 

Lucas governed ? He let EU run wild lol and even said he did not like it .................

It made him money so he let it continue , as Disney deal made him money .

 

The Guy who made JarJar Binks after all .............did not want Luke Skywalker to get married and have kids , openly said he did not agree with it ................so its not Canon in his mind......................

He will likely do the same with ideas or all ideas of Disney ....................working with them on it or not.

 

Its a Proven thing he has done over and over and over..................time to see it for it is .........this discussion is old and tired and falls apart everytime Lucas speaks about StarWars !

[mefit]

Well DC/Marvel has one...well to an extent anyway, its not as extensive as Star Wars. But they do dictate what is canon and what is non-canon.

And it changes over and over ...........

Lets Remember Wolverine , a popular Marvel Character , who was 5foot tall uptill the X-Men Movie and now is 6foot tall in comics etc.............

The Juggernaut , was a mutant in the X-men3 . Wow did that kill that character for me !

 

Batman has gone through many reworks , superman as well ..................nothing remains the same.

 

Stories like these are ment to change for the times .

Weakminded people like Godlike Characters , smart people like characters with weaknesses .

I even read that in the new Superman movies , he will not be weakend by Kryptonite ............yeah things change.

 

StarWars has more Canons than most and this is how the explain the same effect that happens in DC and Marvel .

Just that the EU moves forward as its own , the Movies ignore the EU , and Games ...........well are mixed .

 

Star Trek has a better Canon than most , likely because of the NerdRage that happens in that continuity not because of Gene .

The Company Control over what happens and what doesn't . They allowed JJ.Abrams to turn StarTrek into StarWars without lightsabers .

 

In 2015 I will necro this thread just to say "I told you so" . Until then it is pointless debating it. Well maybe debate it after Rebels comes out !

Edited June 9, 2013 by mefit

[Beniboybling]

Lucas governed ? He let EU run wild lol and even said he did not like it .................

It made him money so he let it continue , as Disney deal made him money .

 

The Guy who made JarJar Binks after all .............did not want Luke Skywalker to get married and have kids , openly said he did not agree with it ................so its not Canon in his mind......................

He will likely do the same with ideas or all ideas of Disney ....................working with them on it or not.

 

Its a Proven thing he has done over and over and over..................time to see it for it is .........this discussion is old and tired and falls apart everytime Lucas speaks about StarWars !

G-Canon will always control the EU to an extent. Nobody will ever be as powerful as Sidious or Skywalker etc. And other unwritten laws such as Yoda's species is never to be named etc. Lucas may not concern himself with every aspect of the EU but he has put a machine in-place that maintains the integrity of Star Wars.

 

Either way, yes I agree that neither party has proof on what's in the contract. But its my belief that some clause or another would have been put in place to maintain the Holocron Continuity Database. Else would it not have already been dismantled? And if the Database remains, G-Canon remains. You say that they would have made this clear, and yet I have heard no statement outlining this fabled 'D-Canon' that people constantly refer to. Nonetheless all we can really do is wait and see... I like you though wouldn't mind seeing the post-ROTJ being... adjusted.

[Wolfninjajedi]

And it changes over and over ...........

Lets Remember Wolverine , a popular Marvel Character , who was 5foot tall uptill the X-Men Movie and now is 6foot tall in comics etc.............

The Juggernaut , was a mutant in the X-men3 . Wow did that kill that character for me !

 

Batman has gone through many reworks , superman as well ..................nothing remains the same.

 

Stories like these are ment to change for the times .

Weakminded people like Godlike Characters , smart people like characters with weaknesses .

I even read that in the new Superman movies , he will not be weakend by Kryptonite ............yeah things change.

 

StarWars has more Canons than most and this is how the explain the same effect that happens in DC and Marvel .

Just that the EU moves forward as its own , the Movies ignore the EU , and Games ...........well are mixed .

 

Star Trek has a better Canon than most , likely because of the NerdRage that happens in that continuity not because of Gene .

The Company Control over what happens and what doesn't . They allowed JJ.Abrams to turn StarTrek into StarWars without lightsabers .

 

In 2015 I will necro this thread just to say "I told you so" . Until then it is pointless debating it. Well maybe debate it after Rebels comes out !

 

Well this is because DC/Marvel tend to have a reboot every decade or so, so of course no character ever stays the same. Star Wars meanwhile their canon don't have reboots every so often, its all just one big thing so redoing it all completely might be bad aside from keeping the movie stuff intact. Now it would be bad in the sense, all of a sudden the lore that has been written and stayed within the continuity for the past +40 years to be all negated something which I don't think is gonna happen. This would also mean that EU characters would be gone, unless they get written back in.

 

If it does? Well then...that'll be a huge change but will be interesting to see where it goes.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Well DC/Marvel has one...well to an extent anyway, its not as extensive as Star Wars. But they do dictate what is canon and what is non-canon.

I find this hard to believe. For example, is Arkham City canon? If so then the Joker is dead and all future material featuring the Joker conflicts with this. And what about the Batman animated series? The Joker dies in that too and Harley Quinn does as well. Yet seems to be alive for the events of Arkham Asylum. But then again the Joker has been arrested in 'The Dark Knight' and Harvey Dent is dead yet appears in Batman Arkham City. Clearly these Batman stories existed in separate universes which abide by their own set of canon. Which in turn renders the word 'canon' obsolete and arbitrary.

 

And its interesting what you say about reboots. I don't believe Star Wars will ever reboot, because that's exactly what the Holocron Continuity Database is designed to prevent.

 

As long as Star Wars remains singular and linear, I don't believe it will ever reboot, because their will be no reason too. The universe is already there for you to build on. While in DC/Marvel their are hundreds of different universes, you can't just pick one and continue it, you have to make your own.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I find this hard to believe. For example, is Arkham City canon? If so then the Joker is dead and all future material featuring the Joker conflicts with this. And what about the Batman animated series? The Joker dies in that too and Harley Quinn does as well. Yet seems to be alive for the events of Arkham Asylum. But then again the Joker has been arrested in 'The Dark Knight' and Harvey Dent is dead yet appears in Batman Arkham City. Clearly these Batman stories existed in separate universes which abide by their own set of canon. Which in turn renders the word 'canon' obsolete and arbitrary.

 

And its interesting what you say about reboots. I don't believe Star Wars will ever reboot, because that's exactly what the Holocron Continuity Database is designed to prevent.

 

As long as Star Wars remains singular and linear, I don't believe it will ever reboot, because their will be no reason too. The universe is already there for you to build on. While in DC/Marvel their are hundreds of different universes, you can't just pick one and continue it, you have to make your own.

 

Well I was speaking more to comic continuity, DC/Marvel do also have the Animated continuity and the like.

[Beniboybling]

Just realised this is another one of Lathari's posts. /sigh

 

I don't mean to be rude, but you really need to stop with these call outs. Your lucky that were able to use these threads as a platform for reasoned debate. By your recent Revan thread is just pointless.

[Aurbere]

I find this hard to believe. For example, is Arkham City canon? If so then the Joker is dead and all future material featuring the Joker conflicts with this. And what about the Batman animated series? The Joker dies in that too and Harley Quinn does as well. Yet seems to be alive for the events of Arkham Asylum. But then again the Joker has been arrested in 'The Dark Knight' and Harvey Dent is dead yet appears in Batman Arkham City. Clearly these Batman stories existed in separate universes which abide by their own set of canon. Which in turn renders the word 'canon' obsolete and arbitrary.

 

And its interesting what you say about reboots. I don't believe Star Wars will ever reboot, because that's exactly what the Holocron Continuity Database is designed to prevent.

 

As long as Star Wars remains singular and linear, I don't believe it will ever reboot, because their will be no reason too. The universe is already there for you to build on. While in DC/Marvel their are hundreds of different universes, you can't just pick one and continue it, you have to make your own.

 

The Arkham games take place in a different universe, which is called the 'Arkhamverse.' Based upon evidence presented in Arkham Asylum, the games appear to take place after 'Knightfall.'

 

That being said, Leland Chee has made it very clear that 'As long as the Holocron exists, there will be no reboot.'

[Beniboybling]

The Arkham games take place in a different universe, which is called the 'Arkhamverse.' Based upon evidence presented in Arkham Asylum, the games appear to take place after 'Knightfall.'

 

That being said, Leland Chee has made it very clear that 'As long as the Holocron exists, there will be no reboot.'

Well this is what I mean, as soon as you start making multiple universes canon become obsolete. Because in reality anything within reason goes, just get publishing writes make up a title and add 'verse' to the end. I wouldn't really call that a canon system, that'ts while I feel Star Wars is quite unique indeed.

 

This is really the reason why I'm so adamantly against alternative universes, its a slippery slope towards reboots. If Disney want to get rid of the post-ROTJ then let in burn. I don't want a multiverse.

 

EDIT: On an entirely unrelated note, according to Gamespot it's 20 hours and counting until the EA E3 press conference! Should I be excited or afraid?

Edited June 9, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

Well this is what I mean, as soon as you start making multiple universes canon become obsolete. Because in reality anything within reason goes, just get publishing writes make up a title and add 'verse' to the end. I wouldn't really call that a canon system, that'ts while I feel Star Wars is quite unique indeed.

 

This is really the reason why I'm so adamantly against alternative universes, its a slippery slope towards reboots. If Disney want to get rid of the post-ROTJ then let in burn. I don't want a multiverse.

 

EDIT: On an entirely unrelated note, according to Gamespot it's 20 hours and counting until the EA E3 press conference! Should I be excited or afraid?

 

I agree, but to a point. I hope that they don't get rid of the Thrawn books. Most likely Leland Chee and writers will bend the EU around to fit the new movies.

 

I would be excited for E3. Maybe not for EA, but E3 itself should be good.