Serendipitous Assault Relic + ?

[Screaming_Ziva]

My lightning Sorc is currently using an Underworld Serendipitous Assault relic and an old War Hero relic of Boundless Ages (+113 power). I am wondering if I should replace the WH relic and with what? 113 power is a lot to lose. What are people using in their other relic slot?

[Kindran]

My lightning Sorc is currently using an Underworld Serendipitous Assault relic and an old War Hero relic of Boundless Ages (+113 power). I am wondering if I should replace the WH relic and with what? 113 power is a lot to lose. What are people using in their other relic slot?

 

At the moment I would recommend the power click and power proc relics as there is currently a bug between the power proc and damage proc relics. The WH or EWH power relics are still very good though.

[chaosmadness]

My lightning Sorc is currently using an Underworld Serendipitous Assault relic and an old War Hero relic of Boundless Ages (+113 power). I am wondering if I should replace the WH relic and with what? 113 power is a lot to lose. What are people using in their other relic slot?

 

Check this thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=634834

 

Edited June 5, 2013 by chaosmadness

[Ghost_Spectre]

Matrix Cube. Get it, augment it with a MK-9 kit, put an Advanced Willpower Augment 28 in it and slot it in your bottom relic slot and never remove it. This gives you a +76 End, +98 Willpower, and +27 Critical. No other relic improves your performance or output like your Matrix Cube. People may disagree because it only gives you a +14 increase in damage. However, they are wearing blinders. Increasing your main stat by nearly 100 points directly increases all your secondary stats (critical, critical chance, force/tech damage, and bonus healing). This works in PvE and PvP and there is no drawback from using the Matrix Cube.

[Nibbon]

Matrix Cube. Get it, augment it with a MK-9 kit, put an Advanced Willpower Augment 28 in it and slot it in your bottom relic slot and never remove it. This gives you a +76 End, +98 Willpower, and +27 Critical. No other relic improves your performance or output like your Matrix Cube. People may disagree because it only gives you a +14 increase in damage. However, they are wearing blinders. Increasing your main stat by nearly 100 points directly increases all your secondary stats (critical, critical chance, force/tech damage, and bonus healing). This works in PvE and PvP and there is no drawback from using the Matrix Cube.

 

Except you are completely wrong.

 

First off, you can't compare an augmented item to an unaugmented item. Why? Because you can augment both of them so the stat increase is the same...

Before I compare stats, the main stat does two things:

Main stat increases your bonus damage (conversely, bonus healing as well at a different ratio) - the equation is .2 per point as compared to power and force power which is .23 per point.

Main stat increases your crit % - that is how often you will get a critical hit - and the percentage is worse than the crit stat, but it is convoluted so I won't write the equation.

 

If you are interested, look here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=615111

 

Now the stats:

Maxtix cube unaugmented: 66 willpower 27 crit

 

I mean, we can compare it to an EWH relic, which gives 120 power, but that isn't even BiS. 120 power is way better than 66 Willpower and 27 crit, though.

 

Crit has a horrible curve and was horribly diminished in 2.0. So crit is severely ... bad. 120 power is way more valuable than 66 Willpower and 27 crit. I could prove it, but I'm not because (66+27=93) is way less than 120.

 

And yet, EWH (with 120 power) is not BiS either. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the power click is the way to go, the ability to time it up with cooldowns gives it unbelievably good burst. Let's compare:

This is the underworld power click with 32 static power and 425 on click for 30 second every 120 seconds.

Even if you just clicked the relic on cooldown, you'd average an extra 425/4=106.25+32=138.25 power over the course of the fight. However, you amplify that 425 power with coolodowns (not really calcuable, but it is significant). Even if that heightened the power by 10% (I think it is closer to 25%) 106.25+10.63, the new total is getting close to 150 power over the course of the fight.

 

So yeah, I personally like power click right now as my second relic.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Nibbon

[Ghost_Spectre]

Except you are completely wrong.

 

That is your belief. So I will say; 'we will agree to disagree.' You might want to check out exactly what the Matrix Cube has in relation to being augmented. You left out the +56 endurance stat. With an advanced willpower lvl 28 augment the numbers I gave are exactly right. Gimping main stat in favor of targeting specific secondary stats is not smart. Willpower contributes more to Bonus Healing and Bonus Damage than just adding Power. Using a click able power relic is only good for a brief moment whereas using something that is always on is not. So play with whatever you want. I will continue as I am performing with consistency that has a greater affect on performance than situational burst tied into something that works on a limit amount of time.

[mastirkal]

That is your belief. So I will say; 'we will agree to disagree.' You might want to check out exactly what the Matrix Cube has in relation to being augmented. You left out the +56 endurance stat. With an advanced willpower lvl 28 augment the numbers I gave are exactly right. Gimping main stat in favor of targeting specific secondary stats is not smart. Willpower contributes more to Bonus Healing and Bonus Damage than just adding Power. Using a click able power relic is only good for a brief moment whereas using something that is always on is not. So play with whatever you want. I will continue as I am performing with consistency that has a greater affect on performance than situational burst tied into something that works on a limit amount of time.

 

No no, you're still wrong.

 

It takes roughly 500 will power to increase your critical chance by 1%

 

willpower is 0.20 bonus damage while power is 0.23 What does this mean?

 

Unaugmented you are getting (66*0.20)+(66*0.20*0.11)= 14.652 bonus power. and 27 crit which is basically 0.5 crit chance if you have 0.

 

Unaugmented War hero relic is (120*0.23)= 27.6 bonus power.

 

:Unaugmented UW power clickie is (32*0.23)= 7.36 bonus power base and over a two minute period you get (425*0.25)= 106.25 bonus power or an average of (106.25*0.23)=24.4375+7.36= 31.7975 bonus damage over a two minute period.

 

What does this mean? Your matrix cube is a piece of freaking columi that people swear by without actually looking at the numbers. It is a worthless item that no serious raider would be caught dead with. It is not as good as other pieces of gear and I strongly advise you to get a real relic to replace it as you are gimping yourself and more than likely the team you play with.

[Nibbon]

That is your belief. So I will say; 'we will agree to disagree.' You might want to check out exactly what the Matrix Cube has in relation to being augmented. You left out the +56 endurance stat. With an advanced willpower lvl 28 augment the numbers I gave are exactly right. Gimping main stat in favor of targeting specific secondary stats is not smart. Willpower contributes more to Bonus Healing and Bonus Damage than just adding Power. Using a click able power relic is only good for a brief moment whereas using something that is always on is not. So play with whatever you want. I will continue as I am performing with consistency that has a greater affect on performance than situational burst tied into something that works on a limit amount of time.

 

I am usually very careful in what I say. This time, I will without reservation say, no, you are still completely wrong, this is not my opinion that I am basing this on.

 

The stats you gave are right WITH THE AUGMENT --- which ALL of the relics have. No one cares about endurance, we are maximizing our heals or damage.

 

I'll still waste my time and prove it to you:

Matrix cube unaugmented: 66 willpower, 27 crit, 56 endurance

Underworld Power click unaugmented (as an example): 98 endurance, 32 power, and its activation effect

 

Matrix Cube augmented: 98 willpower, 27 crit, 76 endurance (result is +32 willpower +20 endurance)

UW Power click augemented: 118 endurance, 32 power, 32 willpower (result is +32 willpower +20 endurance)

 

I mean ... it is pretty straight forward, the stats go up by the same amount.

 

So let's compare 98 willpower and 27 crit to 32 power, 32 willpower and the potential activation - which saying burst isn't important is ridiculous.

 

98 willpower = 0.2% crit chance (at full Underworld, this is the incremental crit one would get from this additional willpower) and ~21.8 bonus damage

note - both these willpower amounts are inclusive of the willpower boost granted by the talent tree and buffs

27 crit (from 0)=0.57% crit chance

 

In total, matrix cube gives you .77% crit chance and 21.8 bonus damage - and the endurance, nothing else

 

Power click

Willpower augment 32 willpower gives you .07% crit chance and 7.1 bonus damage

the static power gives you 7.36 bonus damage

plus the activation effect - which I already explained, with just refreshing on cooldown increases power on average by 106.25 - the 106.25 power directly translates to 24.4375 bonus damage

 

so the total effect, without including burst, is 38.8965 bonus damage and .07% crit chance.

 

comparing the two:

matrix cube power click

.77% crit chance .07% crit chance

21.8 bonus dmg 38.8965 bonus damage

76 endurance 118 endurance

 

51.08 dps 66.46 dps (not factoring in burst, which would increase this significantly)

[Ghost_Spectre]

What does this mean? Your matrix cube is a piece of freaking columi that people swear by without actually looking at the numbers. It is a worthless item that no serious raider would be caught dead with. It is not as good as other pieces of gear and I strongly advise you to get a real relic to replace it as you are gimping yourself and more than likely the team you play with.

 

You and Nibbon can crunch your numbers all day long. I do not care. I see my performance in and out of OPs, FPs, and PvP with my Matrix Cube and without it. I will go with stacking my main stat instead of using something that requires activation for a benefit that last for a few moments.

 

Both of you failed to argue against main stat has a greater impact on bonus damage and healing. That's the key. The augments and relics are just that, they augment the main and secondary stats. I damn near have 3000 will power (2898 to be exact). Likewise, I'm at 28% crit & 73% crit chance just with mods, enhancements, and skill spec. That is more than sufficient to achieve critical numbers while in combat and suffering no DR. That has more impact on what's important than taking a clicky and using it. Clickable relics are temporary and limited it use. When you have used them and they are on cold down, what do you have now? Nothing. Where is your extra damage now? If you ran with the matrix cube, you'd always have it there and not dependent on click base item to obtain it.

 

I love it when people live and breathe numbers; they are the ones that end up under performing and dying by them. Typically, these are those that slight the most important stat for secondary stats. It’s called being short-sighted for an instant gratification instead of looking at the long-term. Your numbers are meaningless to me because I see the results of going with my matrix cube. Sometimes, numbers are just that, numbers and really do not tell the complete story. I suggest you try it before you just say, "It's a piece of scat Columi." But you won't because you believe slighting the most important stat for beefing up stats with DR is more important.

 

Do as you wish. I will do what I am doing because it works for me. I've said all that needs to be said. You will not change my mind or my belief, nor will I change yours from the look of things. Seriously though, I wish you luck in your never ending quest to find the perfect combo. I've found mine and I'm reaping the benefits from it. Have a good one.

[Nibbon]

You and Nibbon can crunch your numbers all day long. I do not care. I see my performance in and out of OPs, FPs, and PvP with my Matrix Cube and without it. I will go with stacking my main stat instead of using something that requires activation for a benefit that last for a few moments.

 

[...]

 

Do as you wish. I will do what I am doing because it works for me. I've said all that needs to be said. You will not change my mind or my belief, nor will I change yours from the look of things. Seriously though, I wish you luck in your never ending quest to find the perfect combo. I've found mine and I'm reaping the benefits from it. Have a good one.

 

While I think it would be best that you do change your mind - what my real goal is, is to prevent others from following your path. So let me break down some of your misguided points.

 

Both of you failed to argue against main stat has a greater impact on bonus damage and healing. That's the key. The augments and relics are just that, they augment the main and secondary stats. I damn near have 3000 will power (2898 to be exact). Likewise, I'm at 28% crit & 73% crit chance just with mods, enhancements, and skill spec. That is more than sufficient to achieve critical numbers while in combat and suffering no DR. That has more impact on what's important than taking a clicky and using it.

 

I do not see how I failed in comparing the two. 98 main stat does not compare to 130-150 to power. I compared the two directly. I showed you the additional damage comparison. What else could I possibly show in that main stat isn't as good as the additional power? Why do you keep bringing the augment up when they both get the same augment? I agree, willpower augment should go in both - stop bringing it up.

 

Clickable relics are temporary and limited it use. When you have used them and they are on cold down, what do you have now? Nothing. Where is your extra damage now? If you ran with the matrix cube, you'd always have it there and not dependent on click base item to obtain it.

 

You are not understanding how the activation works.

 

Imagine a fight broken into two sections - the first 30 seconds and the next 1 minute and 30 seconds

 

During these first 30, you have your power relic activated - the next 1 minute and 30 - you do not.

 

During the first 30 seconds your DPS might be 3350 (this is typically what I do in the first 30 seconds of a fight).

During the next 1 minute 30 your DPS might be 2700 (again, about what I would do).

2863 on average

 

Now let's take the activation relic out of it

 

Without the activation you would do:

first 30 seconds - 3100 (extremely diminished from the lost burst cooldown)

Next 1 minute 30 seconds - 2730 (slightly higher from the higher static stats - the 30 dps higher is probably generous for a matrix cube)

2822 average

 

As you can see - the first will always be higher, since the first 30 seconds will happen again after 2 minutes. And just to be clear, you still benefit from the 32 static power and the 32 static willpower from the power click relic and the augment, which you don't seem to be able to stop talking about.

 

I love it when people live and breathe numbers; they are the ones that end up under performing and dying by them. Typically, these are those that slight the most important stat for secondary stats. It’s called being short-sighted for an instant gratification instead of looking at the long-term. Your numbers are meaningless to me because I see the results of going with my matrix cube. Sometimes, numbers are just that, numbers and really do not tell the complete story. I suggest you try it before you just say, "It's a piece of scat Columi." But you won't because you believe slighting the most important stat for beefing up stats with DR is more important.

 

I am the top balance sage DPS in the parses, outparse me on the dummy or any fight in the game and tell me my math isn't adding up. I agree that when 1 willpower is traded for 1 power, it is a bad trade, however, 1 willpower for 1.3 power is a good trade.

 

Oh and power does not have DR but willpower does on the crit side. So when you say "beefing up stats with DR" that is exactly what you are doing with willpower.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Nibbon

[skarlson]

You and Nibbon can crunch your numbers all day long. I do not care. I see my performance in and out of OPs, FPs, and PvP with my Matrix Cube and without it. I will go with stacking my main stat instead of using something that requires activation for a benefit that last for a few moments.

 

Both of you failed to argue against main stat has a greater impact on bonus damage and healing. That's the key. The augments and relics are just that, they augment the main and secondary stats. I damn near have 3000 will power (2898 to be exact). Likewise, I'm at 28% crit & 73% crit chance just with mods, enhancements, and skill spec. That is more than sufficient to achieve critical numbers while in combat and suffering no DR. That has more impact on what's important than taking a clicky and using it. Clickable relics are temporary and limited it use. When you have used them and they are on cold down, what do you have now? Nothing. Where is your extra damage now? If you ran with the matrix cube, you'd always have it there and not dependent on click base item to obtain it.

 

I love it when people live and breathe numbers; they are the ones that end up under performing and dying by them. Typically, these are those that slight the most important stat for secondary stats. It’s called being short-sighted for an instant gratification instead of looking at the long-term. Your numbers are meaningless to me because I see the results of going with my matrix cube. Sometimes, numbers are just that, numbers and really do not tell the complete story. I suggest you try it before you just say, "It's a piece of scat Columi." But you won't because you believe slighting the most important stat for beefing up stats with DR is more important.

 

Do as you wish. I will do what I am doing because it works for me. I've said all that needs to be said. You will not change my mind or my belief, nor will I change yours from the look of things. Seriously though, I wish you luck in your never ending quest to find the perfect combo. I've found mine and I'm reaping the benefits from it. Have a good one.

 

Why don't you just save yourself the typing and us the reading by summarizing:

 

Math lies! The relic I'm using is best so I'm going to use that! Enjoy trusting math!

[mastirkal]

Why don't you just save yourself the typing and us the reading by summarizing:

 

Math lies! The relic I'm using is best so I'm going to use that! Enjoy trusting math!

 

It's alright. As Nibbon said, as long as no one else takes his bunk advice he can go pound sand. I just hope any real progression team would see the faultiness in his argument and either he changes or his team wises up if they want to progress hard in pve content. Apparently the matrix cube is BiS right now for pvp, so it's not completely useless.

[chaosmadness]

...Apparently the matrix cube is BiS right now for pvp, so it's not completely useless.

 

How can be Matrix Cube (PVE relic), be one of the BIS pvp relics ??

Something is wrong here, because this dont make sense...

 

In my opinion, doesn't makes sense PVE gear be the BiS for PVP, and viceversa..

Edited June 7, 2013 by chaosmadness

[Nibbon]

How can be Matrix Cube (PVE relic), be one of the BIS pvp relics ??

Something is wrong here, because this dont make sense...

 

In my opinion, doesn't makes sense PVE gear be the BiS for PVP, and viceversa..

 

It is more due to a bug than anything. The bolster effect is still currently messed up and the matrix cube is probably being overbulstered. I'm sure bioware doesn't mean to make PvP BIS for PvE or vise-versa, but sometimes their oversights make it end up that way.

[skarlson]

There is also the fact that the second relic slot is currently bugged. They fixed the double serendipitous assault procs pretty quickly but I wouldn't hold my breath for the bug they caused as a result to be fixed anytime in the next year. They only seem to fix positive bugs while the negative ones pile up. Color me jaded!

[Kindran]

There is also the fact that the second relic slot is currently bugged. They fixed the double serendipitous assault procs pretty quickly but I wouldn't hold my breath for the bug they caused as a result to be fixed anytime in the next year. They only seem to fix positive bugs while the negative ones pile up. Color me jaded!

 

This is incorrect. The bug you are referring to is the one where the power proc and damage proc relics do not stack. A bioware official has responded to this saying it is working as intended.

[Ottoattack]

That is your belief. So I will say; 'we will agree to disagree.' You might want to check out exactly what the Matrix Cube has in relation to being augmented. You left out the +56 endurance stat. With an advanced willpower lvl 28 augment the numbers I gave are exactly right. Gimping main stat in favor of targeting specific secondary stats is not smart. Willpower contributes more to Bonus Healing and Bonus Damage than just adding Power. Using a click able power relic is only good for a brief moment whereas using something that is always on is not. So play with whatever you want. I will continue as I am performing with consistency that has a greater affect on performance than situational burst tied into something that works on a limit amount of time.

 

Currently for PvP matrix cube (cuz it gets bolstered) and Conqueror power proc relic are BiS.

 

PvE I do not think there is any question that EWH is waaaay stronger than matrix cube. First power provides 15% per point more healing/damage than will power (or any primary stat for that matter). Second crtic is pointless. I try to drop critic from my build, due to low return, not add more critic. As for endurance, if I remember correctly, EWH adds 47 endurance, not that endurance is relevant for healers..

 

EWH relic with overload augment gives 152 power and 67 endurance. Bottom line, EWH = 2 matrix cubes for constant performance.

 

Now EWH compared to UW boundless ages, UW is better, but not by a significant margin. The burst is useful in burn phases though. I think the Arkanian is stronger as well. If you get below that you are better off with EWH.

[crunchbarry]

what underworld power click relic? all the pve relics dont work in pvp.

 

and the old relics dont have a tooltip saying they dont work in pvp, but they dont. (thanks for that one, bioware)