Did the exile...

[Jandi]

Seriously, the only rational thing to do regarding the book is to just ignore it completely and forget it even exists.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ok I think this thread was just made, just to hate on what happened to the character. Yes folks we get it, after about the 100s of 1,000s of posts. Is it a tragedy? Yes, but you know what? Its done and over with time to move on, sorry to be harsh but...that is the reality, there isn't any point in trying to linger on in the past.

 

Sorry...I just find it incredibly annoying when things like this happen, gotta learn to just move on and deal with it. Hating it is fine, but to go on for pages about it is just....no. I got characters that I like deeply, and hate what happened to them but I learned to just deal with it and move on, instead of complaining I look at the positive things of the characters rather then the negatives.

 

That is what ya need to do folks, just focus on the positives of the character.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[VigDiath]

No. The Exile in Revan had no semblance whatsoever to the Exile in KOTOR 2. Saying it was a watered down version is a ridiculous understatement. Not only was she a weak padawan in terms of ability, she was a whiny, insecure brat.

 

Compare the character in Revan to someone who trained 4 Jedi who ended up reforming the Jedi order, faced down armies and stared down Sith Lords with some serious power themselves. Not to mention being a GENERAL in the Mandalorian wars and possessing a keen tactical mind in addition to battlemeditation (I say this because there are conversation choices to use it in certain places instead of just a buff).

 

No, watered down doesn't even begin to describe it.

 

I was not expressing my full discontent with the mishandling of the Exile apparently. But yeah, that's how I feel.

[Kilikaa]

Plus the fact that the events of the Dark Wars had little to no residual impact in the book continues to show Drew's degrading skills as a Star Wars author..

 

Now I have to disagree with this. I don't think Drew's skills as a SW writer have degrded any. His Revan novel did ruin Surik, and in some ways his own creation, Revan. He is still a very good author, but I think he should stick tothings he does know about. Writing a character that you do zero research on is worse than amatuerish. He should not have written the novel at all. Instead, he should have written a Zannah novel. I don't think there is any argument that his Bane triology was great. Where was that DK when he wrote Revan?

[Aurbere]

Now I have to disagree with this. I don't think Drew's skills as a SW writer have degrded any. His Revan novel did ruin Surik, and in some ways his own creation, Revan. He is still a very good author, but I think he should stick tothings he does know about. Writing a character that you do zero research on is worse than amatuerish. He should not have written the novel at all. Instead, he should have written a Zannah novel. I don't think there is any argument that his Bane triology was great. Where was that DK when he wrote Revan?

 

I haven't read Annihilation, but I hear that it's bad. The Bane Trilogy on the other hand is stellar work.

 

I'm just going to say that I don't think Drew's heart was in it when he wrote the Revan novel. The quality of the Revan novel is not up to par. Considering the numerous masterpieces that the Star Wars franchise has produced, the Revan novel is... well... not good.

[Beniboybling]

I haven't read Annihilation, but I hear that it's bad. The Bane Trilogy on the other hand is stellar work.

 

I'm just going to say that I don't think Drew's heart was in it when he wrote the Revan novel. The quality of the Revan novel is not up to par. Considering the numerous masterpieces that the Star Wars franchise has produced, the Revan novel is... well... not good.

I agree with you both, while the quality of writing is still their I don't feel the story quality is quite there anymore. And the dedication to the era clearly missing. And I have read Annihilation, its engaging but... its not the Bane Trilogy.

 

And just to say, I'd love to see a Zannah Trilogy.

[Aurbere]

I agree with you both, while the quality of writing is still their I don't feel the story quality is quite there anymore. And the dedication to the era clearly missing. And I have read Annihilation, its engaging but... its not the Bane Trilogy.

 

And just to say, I'd love to see a Zannah Trilogy.

 

I would love to see a series of books about the Banite Line of Sith Lords. We could watch the Sith grow in power until they reach their peak in Darth Sidious. Would definitely be an engaging series of books.

 

If they all share the political intrigue and overall quality of Darth Plagueis the we would be golden.

[October]

I'm just curious, but is the Jedi Knight supposed to be more powerful than Revan, then, considering what they were able to achieve when Revan could not?

[Wolfninjajedi]

I'm just curious, but is the Jedi Knight supposed to be more powerful than Revan, then, considering what they were able to achieve when Revan could not?

 

The Jedi Knight, is probably more powerful then Revan but given there is no canon information on the JK, we don't know for sure, but given what we know(even if its just a little) the JK should be.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[mefit]

This old Topic ........

 

Force Powers don't always seem to work as penned on paper makes them seem .

Lets not forget that Palpatine seen everything but his own death and how it would come to be .

Matter of fact , most Jedi and sith able to see the future or close to it almost always end up dead .

 

Emperor in SWTOR seems to be the only one really able to , or he would not be hiding from everything .......using weaker beings as host to keep his own body out of danger .

The most powerful Sith Lord of ToR comes off as very weak to his own fear of death . Very funny .

 

From the Revan Novel we get the feeling hes pretty unbeatable as he smacked Revan down like a lil mosquitoe ! I mean how is that almost dieing or worthy of fearing for ones life ?!

 

As usual people are too stuck on how or why their characters die . If everyone one had it their way , no one would be dead because no death is fitting it seems for someones favorite character .

 

While I have read this thread and seen every Drew bash there is , the guy is still a good writer . Ignored or just went on his own path with characters , I personally do not know .

He was lead writer for KotoR and Mass Effect , both favorites of mine . He did not write neither solo and had help .

KotoR II is not dead on with 1 either .

To be honest it makes no sense .

Why did Scion and Nihilus wait till Revan was out the picture to make a grand entrance into the picture ? Both Clearly very Powerful Sithlords ............. If they were more powerful than Revan , they would have no waited , they would have killed Revan and his Apprentice . Makes no sense .

Traya ? Why did she not come into the picture earlier ? She was wroten like a Revan Fangirl , surely she would have tried to joined his empire .....If she was as powerful as people think her to be , he would have went to gain her into his Empire ...........why did this not happen ?

Revan just left HK behind ? Went off without a clear thought of what he was going to be greeted by and left his allies behind ?

Makes no sense at all , Revan gathered people for his causes . Its what he did , it was how he was written . He was not a loner as KotoR II made his out to be and later the Revan Novel.

 

How come None of these Characters were in KotoR 1 ? Not even Mentioned . Why could not Obsidion just went with new Characters and mentioned little of KotoR 1 events ?

While I am happy with KotoR II , it is unjust to talk of one writer messing with another writers character while ignoring what the other did .

 

Maybe I am just to balanced for this thread .

Characters are ment to live and die . KotoR , KotoRII , and TOR are the past . Everyone in them die eventually .

Just my opinion

Edited June 6, 2013 by mefit

[AlexDougherty]

This old Topic ........

 

As usual people are too stuck on how or why their characters die . If everyone one had it their way , no one would be dead because no death is fitting it seems for someones favorite character .

 

While I have read this thread and seen every Drew bash there is , the guy is still a good writer . Ignored or just went on his own path with characters , I personally do not know .

He was lead writer for KotoR and Mass Effect , both favorites of mine . He did not write neither solo and had help .

KotoR II is not dead on with 1 either .

To be honest it makes no sense .

 

Maybe I am just to balanced for this thread .

Characters are ment to live and die . KotoR , KotoRII , and TOR are the past . Everyone in them die eventually .

Just my opinion

 

The Exile dying isn't the problem, it never was the problem. The problem is that Drew didn't bother to understand a great character then gave her the most pathetic death possible. The Exile was a battle hardened character with great force abilities, who is taken down by a random shot, she survived much worse ambushs.

 

To make matters worse Drew wrote her as a spoiled brat in the story (ignore her age, I'm refering to her character), this is a person who survived the mandalorean wars, survived being stripped of her powers, being wrongfully banished by the Jedi Council, attacked by thousands of Sith (and Bounty Hunters, Mandaloreans, and those Idiots at Onderon), and rebuilt the Jedi order; all without a single complaint.

 

People aren't annoyed by a character dying, they are annoyed by the blatant mishandling of a great hero.

[Jandi]

This old Topic ........

Snip

 

Why not read a thread next time before making a long, boring and pointless rant that has nothing to do with what people are talking about?

Edited June 6, 2013 by Jandi

[Wolfninjajedi]

Snip

 

Why not read a thread next time before making a long, boring and pointless rant that has nothing to do with what people are talking about?

 

That could go for the same as the other posts, as it clearly just went off of left field when all the OP asked was a simple question.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Jandi]

That could go for the same as the other posts, as it clearly just went off of left field when all the OP asked was a simple question.

 

Which was answered and the followup question is what sparked the rest of the replies. Conversations evolve. What he posted is basically bashing people without even knowing what people are talking about, or at the very least not understanding.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Which was answered and the followup question is what sparked the rest of the replies. Conversations evolve. What he posted is basically bashing people without even knowing what people are talking about, or at the very least not understanding.

 

Well yes convo's do evolve, just saying the topic was merely skewed off the main road when it happened.

[TalonVII]

[quote=AlexDougherty;6402050

People aren't annoyed by a character dying, they are annoyed by the blatant mishandling of a great hero.

 

That line right there nails it. If you played KOTORII and enjoyed the Exile's story and "her" rise to reclaim what was lost, then when you read about her death it is infuriating.

 

Just like watching Mara Jade Skywalker go down in Sacrifice. You know she's going to die, but when she merely goes down like she did, yeah...I get the exile had to die but come on?

 

Something that STUPID?

[Beniboybling]

KotoR II is not dead on with 1 either .

To be honest it makes no sense .

Why did Scion and Nihilus wait till Revan was out the picture to make a grand entrance into the picture ? Both Clearly very Powerful Sithlords ............. If they were more powerful than Revan , they would have no waited , they would have killed Revan and his Apprentice . Makes no sense .

Traya ? Why did she not come into the picture earlier ? She was wroten like a Revan Fangirl , surely she would have tried to joined his empire .....If she was as powerful as people think her to be , he would have went to gain her into his Empire ...........why did this not happen ?

Revan just left HK behind ? Went off without a clear thought of what he was going to be greeted by and left his allies behind ?

Makes no sense at all , Revan gathered people for his causes . Its what he did , it was how he was written . He was not a loner as KotoR II made his out to be and later the Revan Novel.

 

How come None of these Characters were in KotoR 1 ? Not even Mentioned . Why could not Obsidion just went with new Characters and mentioned little of KotoR 1 events ?

While I am happy with KotoR II , it is unjust to talk of one writer messing with another writers character while ignoring what the other did .

A lot of these aren't actually plot holes, KOTOR II does have some gaps but these are not them. Allow me to explain:

 

 

• Sion fought under Darth Revan, he was one of Revan's many disciples and survived the Jedi Civil War. He says as much in one of your conversations with him. Or somewhere. Also note that Darth Sion is not so much interested in power, he just wants to destroy the Jedi. Revan was giving him that opportunity.
   
   
  
• Nihilus was trapped on Malachor V after the Mass Shadow Generator was activated, and was stuck there throughout the duration of the Jedi Civil War. Presumably Darth Traya discovered him on the planet and made him her apprentice. I'm fairly sure that at least the former is touched upon in KOTOR II.
   
   
  
• Traya was Revan's former master and was exiled during the Mandalorian Wars. Why did she not join Revan? We can't say for sure. However we have to remember that she is not Sith, are is not concerned with personal power, she has her own motives. Joining Revan would not further her goals in any way.
   
   
  
• Revan left everyone behind except T3 when he went into the Unknown Regions, because he believed it would be too dangerous for them. Why he left HK behind is explained in the novel, basically the guy is too psycho. Note however that while he took T3 with him, they became separated, and T3 made he way back the Republic space and found the Exile.
   
   
  
• Now of course these characters weren't mentioned in KOTOR 1, because they simply hadn't been written yet. However from a canon perspective, Sion is the only one who would make an appearance.
  

[AlexDougherty]

A lot of these aren't actually plot holes, KOTOR II does have some gaps but these are not them. Allow me to explain:

 

 

• Sion fought under Darth Revan, he was one of Revan's many disciples and survived the Jedi Civil War. He says as much in one of your conversations with him. Or somewhere. Also note that Darth Sion is not so much interested in power, he just wants to destroy the Jedi. Revan was giving him that opportunity.
   
   
  
• Nihilus was trapped on Malachor V after the Mass Shadow Generator was activated, and was stuck there throughout the duration of the Jedi Civil War. Presumably Darth Traya discovered him on the planet and made him her apprentice. I'm fairly sure that at least the former is touched upon in KOTOR II.
   
   
  
• Traya was Revan's former master and was exiled during the Mandalorian Wars. Why did she not join Revan? We can't say for sure. However we have to remember that she is not Sith, are is not concerned with personal power, she has her own motives. Joining Revan would not further her goals in any way.
   
   
  
• Revan left everyone behind except T3 when he went into the Unknown Regions, because he believed it would be too dangerous for them. Why he left HK behind is explained in the novel, basically the guy is too psycho. Note however that while he took T3 with him, they became separated, and T3 made he way back the Republic space and found the Exile.
   
   
  
• Now of course these characters weren't mentioned in KOTOR 1, because they simply hadn't been written yet. However from a canon perspective, Sion is the only one who would make an appearance.
  

 

There is doubt about Darth Traya(Kreia) being Revans master, she says she only turned to the Darkside after Revan intervened in the Mandalorean Wars, and that she had only been active for about ten years. These are problematic with her being Revan's master.

[Beniboybling]

There is doubt about Darth Traya(Kreia) being Revans master, she says she only turned to the Darkside after Revan intervened in the Mandalorean Wars, and that she had only been active for about ten years. These are problematic with her being Revan's master.

Not exactly, we have to assume that Traya found Malachor V and turned to the dark side post-Jedi Civil War. Because it was on that planet that Traya found Revan's Sith assassins that he had left behind. So really she has only been Darth Traya for around 5 years. Before that, she was retracing Revan's footsteps to find out why he had fallen. And before that she likely fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Which you'll notice, she never said she did not.

 

Regardless, she says so herself that Revan was her Padawan. And although we are not inclined to believe her, we have no reason not to, and the Jedi Council confirms that this is the case either way:

 

Is this your new master, Exile? If so then you follow Revan's path. Her teachings will cause you to fall as surely as he did. ~ Master Vrook.

 

And after Surik is exiled, the Jedi Council discuss 'her teachings' which led Revan and all others 'she' taught to the dark side. Now it is neverly explicitly said that they are referring to Kreia, but given her accounting of events in makes sense. Now it could be Arren Kae, but I am of the firm belief that Kreia and Kae are one and the same.

[TalonVII]

Not exactly, we have to assume that Traya found Malachor V and turned to the dark side post-Jedi Civil War. Because it was on that planet that Traya found Revan's Sith assassins that he had left behind. So really she has only been Darth Traya for around 5 years. Before that, she was retracing Revan's footsteps to find out why he had fallen. And before that she likely fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Which you'll notice, she never said she did not.

 

Regardless, she says so herself that Revan was her Padawan. And although we are not inclined to believe her, we have no reason not to, and the Jedi Council confirms that this is the case either way:

 

Is this your new master, Exile? If so then you follow Revan's path. Her teachings will cause you to fall as surely as he did. ~ Master Vrook.

 

And after Surik is exiled, the Jedi Council discuss 'her teachings' which led Revan and all others 'she' taught to the dark side. Now it is neverly explicitly said that they are referring to Kreia, but given her accounting of events in makes sense. Now it could be Arren Kae, but I am of the firm belief that Kreia and Kae are one and the same.

 

Actually Kreia is NOT Kae. I think Kreia knew her but Kreia never fought in the Mandalorian wars. she held Atriss' post throughout the war. She was the Liberian and historian of the jedi. Wasn't till after the war she found the Jedi Knowledge incomplete and went to find what happened to Revan.

 

She even says this as Atriss was on Kreia's path of wanting more knowledge. Kae is dead. She fought in the wars and died.

[Beniboybling]

Actually Kreia is NOT Kae. I think Kreia knew her but Kreia never fought in the Mandalorian wars. she held Atriss' post throughout the war. She was the Liberian and historian of the jedi. Wasn't till after the war she found the Jedi Knowledge incomplete and went to find what happened to Revan.

 

She even says this as Atriss was on Kreia's path of wanting more knowledge. Kae is dead. She fought in the wars and died.

Actually this is not the case. Kreia was exiled during the Mandalorian Wars, likely around 3,963 BBY. We know this from what Master Kavar said when she revealed her identity to the Council:

 

"I thought you'd died during the Mandalorian Wars!"

 

"Die? No. Grew stronger. Yes."

 

Kreia tells us that after she was exiled, she retraced Revan's footsteps which led her to Malachor V, post-Jedi Civil War. That means it must have taken her 8 years to do that, which seems a little excessive. Its more than possible that Kreia joined Revan (as many believed that she did) and fought in the wars, and was presumed dead at Malachor V, but in fact survived. Now of course we have to explain why she bears a different name, but given that after her betrayal she went into exile and hid her Sith past its plausible to say she changed her name too, in order to avoid recognition.

 

I won't go into anymore detail concerning the evidence that supports this claim. But I will point you towards this

which I feel sums up the arguments very well, by compiling the various references and hints in-game - make sure you have captions turned on.

[TalonVII]

Actually this is not the case. Kreia was exiled during the Mandalorian Wars, likely around 3,963 BBY. We know this from what Master Kavar said when she revealed her identity to the Council:

 

"I thought you'd died during the Mandalorian Wars!"

 

"Die? No. Grew stronger. Yes."

 

Kreia tells us that after she was exiled, she retraced Revan's footsteps which led her to Malachor V, post-Jedi Civil War. That means it must have taken her 8 years to do that, which seems a little excessive. Its more than possible that Kreia joined Revan (as many believed that she did) and fought in the wars, and was presumed dead at Malachor V, but in fact survived. Now of course we have to explain why she bears a different name, but given that after her betrayal she went into exile and hid her Sith past its plausible to say she changed her name too, in order to avoid recognition.

 

I won't go into anymore detail concerning the evidence that supports this claim. But I will point you towards this

which I feel sums up the arguments very well, by compiling the various references and hints in-game - make sure you have captions turned on.

 

I guess it is possible. I mean all those make good arguments for it, but there are many inconsistencies. Because you always hear about Kae being a warrior. But never a SCHOLAR. Kreia was a SCHOLAR, not a warrior.

 

But how many times does a betrayer tell the full truth?

[mefit]

More of my thoughts on this Topic.

 

Meetra was powerful , we can all say that.

Darth Revan hunted down Jedi to convert them or kill them . KotoR I said this . Heck even was said in KotoR II !

 

Why did he let Meetra walk ? Alek was his best friend , he took his jaw as a sick Joke for Malek attempting to challenge him...........

But let Meetra , a powerful Jedi walk ? When he was having assassins and he himself was killing Jedi that refused to covert ? Darth Revan had all intentions of ending the Jedi , what did it matter if Meetra wanted to go in front of the Jedi and explain herself ? Seems rather pointless in the long run , after all if Darth Revan had it his way , the Jedi would be no more and he would have had to kill Meetra who would have refused to convert anyways .

JUST MAKES NO SENSE !

Edited June 7, 2013 by mefit

[Beniboybling]

I guess it is possible. I mean all those make good arguments for it, but there are many inconsistencies. Because you always hear about Kae being a warrior. But never a SCHOLAR. Kreia was a SCHOLAR, not a warrior.

 

But how many times does a betrayer tell the full truth?

It will forever remain a mystery, but I feel that given that throughout KOTOR II Kreia hides many truths from the Exile, this would just be adding on to the list.

 

We should note thought that Kreia is perfectly capable of handling a lightsaber, though I must admit she does not seem the type to go rushing off into war.

[Beniboybling]

More of my thoughts on this Topic.

 

Meetra was powerful , we can all say that.

Darth Revan hunted down Jedi to convert them or kill them . KotoR I said this . Heck even was said in KotoR II !

 

Why did he let Meetra walk ? Alek was his best friend , he took his jaw as a sick Joke for Malek attempting to challenge him...........

But let Meetra , a powerful Jedi walk ? When he was having assassins and he himself was killing Jedi that refused to covert ? Darth Revan had all intentions of ending the Jedi , what did it matter if Meetra wanted to go in front of the Jedi and explain herself ? Seems rather pointless in the long run , after all if Darth Revan had it his way , the Jedi would be no more and he would have had to kill Meetra who would have refused to convert anyways .

JUST MAKES NO SENSE !

Meetra left the Jedi Order and went into exile in the Outer Rim. So because of that she simply did not participate in the Jedi Civil War. We have to remember that Revan only targeted members of the Jedi Order, he was not conducting a purge in which all Force users were hunted down and destroyed. Meetra simply wasn't enough in the foreground to draw Revan's attention, she simply fell off the radar.