Jugg Threat busted?

[Selethar]

Backgroud: Level 55 tank. Fighting Garjh (lava island boss in HM EV) I open with taunt then jump in and immediately backhand. Waiting for the very next GCD I lost aggro to a sorc. How? I was a tank on this character 0-50 then benched her till Makeb. Switched to DPS to get through Makeb faster. Trying to go back to tanking. 1 item with 63 pieces, everything else 66 blue or better (3 comm 162 pieces)

 

Seems that something is borked with jug aggro abilities. I cannot even hold agro on single target and mutli target is still a sad joke. I've also seen this with other jug tanks in both HM FP and Ops. Even with taunt as part of my rotation I can lose agro. Any ideas?

[Marb]

You shouldn't open with taunt, all that will do is force the boss to attack you for 6 seconds. You need to leap in and bust out some threat before you taunt so you have some base threat to boost from. Setting up your crushing blow should be your first priority, for example leap in and smash>crushing blow+retaliation. Depending on how your dps behave, using a saber throw is the most rage efficient way to begin most fights, otherwise you will need to use enrage on your opener.

 

As for AoE tanking, in flashpoints some pulls can be scary, just ensure your dps are killing weakest enemies first before moving on to the big ones, that will save you a lot of pain trying to tap all the normals with damage so they don't shoot your healer. Positioning is key as smash and crushing blow have a small aoe range. Saber Reflect is also something you should learn to abuse for ranged packs.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Marb

[BlownSi]

You shouldn't open with taunt, all that will do is force the boss to attack you for 6 seconds. You need to leap in and bust out some threat before you taunt so you have some base threat to boost from. Setting up your crushing blow should be your first priority, for example leap in and smash>crushing blow+retaliation. Depending on how your dps behave, using a saber throw is the most rage efficient way to begin most fights, otherwise you will need to use enrage on your opener.

 

As for AoE tanking, in flashpoints some pulls can be scary, just ensure your dps are killing weakest enemies first before moving on to the big ones, that will save you a lot of pain trying to tap all the normals with damage so they don't shoot your healer. Positioning is key as smash and crushing blow have a small aoe range. Saber Reflect is also something you should learn to abuse for ranged packs.

 

Pretty much spot on in this post, so take this to heart OP.

 

Jugg tank is not broken. It wasn't broken before 2.0 either, just required MUCH more work than it does now. We got just what we needed in 2.0 for threat gen, damage output, and AOE threat to make us fully viable tanks again. For group pulls, just remember that Saber Reflect is your friend, and you should be using it on big group pulls and even on single target bosses. Good luck mate!

[Selethar]

Taunt used to be an agro build, not just a force to attack, especially >30m. Are you telling me this changed?Crushing blow takes 2 cycles to set up (leap, sunder) so I have to tell my dps to wait 5 seconds? What about backhand? It says it's supposed to be high threat? Even using the taunt to get this boss in position, why didn't backhand hold long enough to get crush off?

 

As for AOE tanking, I know all about Saber Reflect and I use it and smash and aoe taunt. Doesn't help much. I can't hold the droid packs in EV (nor the firedogs).

Edited June 2, 2013 by Selethar

[Eternalnight]

Taunt used to be an agro build, not just a force to attack, especially >30m. Are you telling me this changed?

/facepalm

 

No, he is not telling you it has changed!!!

 

It works exactly the same way as it always has!!!

 

Taunt will put your threat to 110% or 130% of what is currently the highest pre-existing threat, thereby if you taunt of yourself increasing your threat by 10% or 30% of what you had before.

 

If you use the taunt as an opener then it does not generate any threat because the pre-existing threat is 0.

 

What part of that 130% of a 0 is still 0 is so hard to understand?

 

Use taunts after other attacks.

[Selethar]

First off Eternalnight, thank you for aptly demonstrating why most people don't come out to these forums. Nice to see the elitest smug answer crowd hasn't changed much.

 

Second off, If I had known that little fact about taunt mechanics, I wouldn't have asked for clarification about it. Especially since that is different than what I have seen in other threads around the same subject.

 

Third off, I will leave you all to your conversations. I appreciate the first 2 replies. The third one the poster can take and shove into their nether regions.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Selethar

[BlownSi]

Taunt used to be an agro build, not just a force to attack, especially >30m. Are you telling me this changed?Crushing blow takes 2 cycles to set up (leap, sunder) so I have to tell my dps to wait 5 seconds? What about backhand? It says it's supposed to be high threat? Even using the taunt to get this boss in position, why didn't backhand hold long enough to get crush off?

 

As for AOE tanking, I know all about Saber Reflect and I use it and smash and aoe taunt. Doesn't help much. I can't hold the droid packs in EV (nor the firedogs).

 

I would suggest for packs like in EV your pull should look like this; saber throw-charge-smash-crushing blow. That should be your initial pull. DPS SHOULD be attacking your current target unless of course they are throwing AOE. If they are not attacking your target then they fail at DPS and it is not your fault for not holding aggro. I always tell the dps in my group that if they pull it they tank it. If they die in the process, oh well. They should learn how to DPS correctly.

 

Also, keep in mind that Sweeping Slash got a threat gen increase with 2.0 as well, so even though it does use a bit of rage, rage gen as an Immortal Jugg is really not an issue anymore since 2.0 launched. Typically though, after that initial pull, you want to get Retaliation and Force Scream off to buff your mitigation. After this, if the group of mobs are being AOE'd down, pop saber reflect and if needs be use your area taunt.

 

It honestly takes some practice to get that rotation to flow quickly, but once you get it down, I promise you you will not lose aggro to anything but stupid dps, or dps that are way over-geared compared to you. I would recommend shielding snipers int he group, as they are hitting just stupidly hard now and they will rip aggro off ANY tank in a heart beat if they are on top of their rotation.

 

And with the way taunt works in this game, as explained above, don't be afraid to use it often. It is actually integral to a tanks rotation and not just an "oh crap!" button....lol.

[BlownSi]

One last thing; you can also take the two points in Decimate in the Rage tree to increase the damage and lower the cool down of Smash and Sweeping Slash. I personally for go this to take the accuracy talent in Vengeance, but that is because with a 72 hilt, I don't really need the extra damage. But, it does help for AOE threat gen.

[Critical-]

You can always ask for the DPS to relax for first couple sec, and yeah dont use taunt at start.