[ATTN DEVS] Please Fix ASAP

[BoushhDC]

Do we agree that smash is in a good place? Id think so. That doesnt make sentinels bad because every guild has sentinels "on the bench."

 

What it comes down to is that a good ranked compositon these days, at least with the meta in pot5, includes EITHER a merc or a sorc. When you have a sorc you would put in the top 3, your merc is gonna get left on the bench, even if hes in the top 5.

 

On top of this, other top guilds on our server do bring mercs/commandos, either almost always or often. There are only 8 spots. Trying to paint my words as demonstrating that mercs are no good in ranked is like saying that sentinels are no good because youd rather have a gunslinger instead of a third smash. There are only so many spots per role and certain set roles you must have.

 

Oh, and btw, the other guilds that supposedly are "bring[ing]" mercs/commandos in ranked aren't in this thread saying that they are fine (or even that they are their first choice, if they had other options)... so far just you.... who doesn't bring one and doesn't play one.

[Skolops]

Third smash? So who are delivering the first two?

 

Fine I'll play the game. Say its two guardians. In fact, I remember a good rated team that used to run two juggs no marauders. Not my ideal choice, but nevertheless. The two smash roles filled, so no room for a sentinel. That wouldnt mean sentinels were bad.

 

Similalry, if your ranged caster is a sorc, then having no merc doesnt mean they are bad. It just means that team already has that ranged caster role filled.

[BoushhDC]

Fine I'll play the game. Say its two guardians. In fact, I remember a good rated team that used to run two juggs no marauders. Not my ideal choice, but nevertheless. The two smash roles filled, so no room for a sentinel. That wouldnt mean sentinels were bad.

 

Similalry, if your ranged caster is a sorc, then having no merc doesnt mean they are bad. It just means that team already has that ranged caster role filled.

 

Not playing a game. I edited to clarify, but you'd already posted so I'll just add here: there are 8 spots and 8 classes. What classes are getting routinely excluded, and what classes are getting routinely doubled (or tripled) up on?

[Jakev-]

Not playing a game. I edited to clarify, but you'd already posted so I'll just add here: there are 8 spots and 8 classes. What classes are getting routinely excluded, and what classes are getting routinely doubled (or tripled) up on?

 

I've honestly lost what you were arguing about.

 

But

 

We run a sorc because hes an amazing player and we do alot better when we have him on our team.

 

/thread

 

Also I recently dusted off my commando that I havent pvped as DPS with since 1.2, I think its amazing and I am considering leveling up my 50 merc to 55 as well. The only thing I think mercs should get is immune to interrupt on unload when you get curtain of fire proc.

[Skolops]

Not playing a game. I edited to clarify, but you'd already posted so I'll just add here: there are 8 spots and 8 classes. What classes are getting routinely excluded, and what classes are getting routinely doubled (or tripled) up on?

 

The only class I really see routinely excluded at this point are powertechs (since 2.0). I see Mercenaries, Sorcerors, Assassins, Juggernauts, Marauders, Snipers, and Operatives in rated warzones on a regular basis.

[BoushhDC]

I've honestly lost what you were arguing about.

 

But

 

We run a sorc because hes an amazing player and we do alot better when we have him on our team.

 

/thread

 

Also I recently dusted off my commando that I havent pvped as DPS with since 1.2, I think its amazing and I am considering leveling up my 50 merc to 55 as well. The only thing I think mercs should get is immune to interrupt on unload when you get curtain of fire proc.

 

Actually, you didn't add anything to your guildie's comments. He/she already said you bring a sorc because he/she is a good player. And, no, you don't get to end the thread because it's about commandos, not sorcs. lol.

 

The question wasn't why do you bring a sorc. The question was, because you neither PvP (ranked) as a commando, nor do you see fit to have one on your ranked team, upon what would you predicate the statement that they are " in a good place now"? The only perspective from which that statement could be accurate is as an opponent who doesn't want a class they don't play themselves or with on their team, to become more of a challenge to them. Which I asked your guildie about here:

 

So let's lay it all on the table, and this is all in the context of what we've been discussing thus far, which is ranked. You don't play one, and you don't play with one on your team. You state that you play "against" them. It's only natural that one not want to have a class they fight against to get any better. Therefore, the fact that you state that commandos "are in a good place," in my estimation, translates that you can deal with them fine now (aside perhaps from the occasional nuisance electro-net, et. al.) but if they were better, you might start being challenged by them. You've been relatively straight forward so far, so does that about sum it up?

 

While we're at it, I'm still interested to a response to this:

 

Oh, and btw, the other guilds that supposedly are "bring[ing]" mercs/commandos in ranked aren't in this thread saying that they are fine (or even that they are their first choice, if they had other options)... so far just you.... who doesn't bring one and doesn't play one.

 

The other question is, do you expect you'll be invited to a ranked team on either your merc or commando? Magic 8 Ball says "the odds are against it." lol.

[BoushhDC]

The only class I really see routinely excluded at this point are powertechs (since 2.0). I see Mercenaries, Sorcerors, Assassins, Juggernauts, Marauders, Snipers, and Operatives in rated warzones on a regular basis.

 

I find it interesting, however, someone asserting that the commandos are fine ("in a good place now") doesn't play one (ranked pvp) nor do you have one on your team. As I posted earlier:

 

Oh, and btw, the other guilds that supposedly are "bring[ing]" mercs/commandos in ranked aren't in this thread saying that they are fine (or even that they are their first choice, if they had other options)... so far just you.... who doesn't bring one and doesn't play one.

Edited May 31, 2013 by BoushhDC

[Owynyo]

Not sure if OP is troll or serious.

Commando dps is already good, why make it ridiculously op?

The ONLY thing we need is some help against interrupts.

[Lord_Karsk]

Really we all know the truth and the devs do aswell, snipers do 500-800 k more damage because it's the favorite dev class. Like it or not this is the truth. Look at energy managment alone on sniper lol so much better then commando that run out of ammo in no time. No commando wants to 1vs1 a sniper because sniper have so much defensive cooldowns etc.I mean shield on commando is a utter joke and do nothing. And medical probe is a 6 skill point skill

This skill should be given to 3 players in combat not stacking .Lets not forget gunnery tree is the only tree with a 2 point skill that nobody ever uses and is 100% useless Heavy trooper.Not to mention special munitions is a 3 point skill what a total joke !!!

 

You would never see this sloppy work on sniper class, in sniper skill tree everything makes sence because as we know this is the class played by the pvp team as they have said this themself. If the developers from start actually cared about balance we would not have had this issues, there have been ALOT of troopers who unsubbed because their class was crap. What is more importen EA money from subs or keeping the developers who have done the most to hurt your game ?

[HaemmernZeit]

Oh, and btw, the other guilds that supposedly are "bring[ing]" mercs/commandos in ranked aren't in this thread saying that they are fine (or even that they are their first choice, if they had other options)... so far just you.... who doesn't bring one and doesn't play one.

 

Hi there! I am on Pot5 with Elskan and am in the guild that brings a Commando to rateds regularly. Hostile Takeover if you are interested. He does quite well. Maybe not the top damage, but his off healing or spot heals tend to make or break whether we capture a side node quickly/effectively. At least from my perspective as a Sentinel.

And while I do think that Commandos and Sages fill a very similar role, I had been advocating for a Sage dps over Commando because I think Sage will beat a Commando and have better healing. Just my 2 cents.

[Nebdar]

This is how i see the game mechanic:

Marauders/ Snipers Medium Armored Pure DPS(one ranged one melee), so if they can't be TANK OR HEALERS DPS THEN They must be the best damage dealers in game to be viable as DPS and as a class choice, because if

Juggernauts/Assassins/ Power tech Heavy/Light/Heavy Armored TANK/DPS(one melee tank, one stealth tank, one ranged tank) have dealt more damage then Pure DPS every one would pick those classes because of that

Sorcerers/ Operatives/ Mercenaries Light/ Medium/ Heavy Armor HEALERS/DPS(one ??meele?? healer, one ranged healer, and one support class healer) also can't dealt more damage then pure DPS because who would use those DPS for when you can deal more damage and heal at the same time.

 

Lets talk more about

Sorcerers/ Operatives/ Mercenaries

those classes can be DPS and still Heal in game, so Healing is giving an extra usefulness, survivability but also when you are Healing you are not DPSing. From what i can't see the Pure DPS doesn't have choice in their abilities either they use DPS abilities or Evasion/Defense ones and if we assume that every player no matter the class or specialization spends roughly the same time using defense/evasion/escape abilities, so we are coming to t he result that Pure DPS spend the More time than any other class on DPSing hence it deals more damage then other DPS hybrids, and it should be that way.

So let's look on Healing classes

Comparing classes by armor this what i think dev though about them

Sorcerer Lightly armored needs good low Cooldown defense abilities because without them it is easy kill

Operative Medium Armor need good medium cooldown defense abilities because they can manage 1v1 fights until their DEF CD(Cooldowns) are available

Mercenary Heavy Armour need long cooldown defense abilities because they should manage 1v1 fights better then their fellow Healers(of course we died in PvP before 2.0 WZ because of lack of mobility/escape skill and ofc the gear)

So for Mercenary/Commando the Heavy armor put's the Devs in dilemma.They can't give too much Defense/ Tanking abilities because that could make the other Tanks classes look less appealing or the other healing classes less sturdy.

The Healing efficiency is tied up to the resource and its management

As Sorcerer I find it very hard to manage the resource right and the vision of recharging my Force using my HP doesn't feel very safe action in PvP environment and because of the Armor thing the devs probably thought that most / half of the time the Sorc will be running around escaping so the heals have to mean something give enough punch when the gap of opportunity arises.

Same with Operative when things go hot it goes stealth so no more Healing except the periodic one with perfectly fits with stealth escape. As i have seen the resource management for this class is pretty damn good but i have to play more with this class to be more accurate.

 

So the Op Healing comes from this two classes when the your group somehow manages to keep all enemies from interrupting/attacking the healers. But that kind of situation/problem is more the other group gameplay/strategy fault or situational . So every one must L2P how to avoid such situation/ or /and make such situation

 

End finally Mercenary if we look closely on Bodyguard spec i can see(and hopefully you too) that this healing class is designed to Heal yourself and one or two group mates effectively. The Kolto Shell if we could spam it on our whole group we would be better group healers, but this is designed to protect mostly us (our own force barrier). Then there is NEW Kolto Overload which gives us an incredible 6 sec almost immortality and when you add Energy Shield and Hydraulic Overrides. There is also an ability to increase healing when Energy Shield is on. So all of those mentioned abilities are mostly designed to keep us alive.

And there comes the Combat Support Gas Cylinder it gives us additional damage reduction but requires 30 charges to use it and in PvP madness it is very hard for me to gather is much and even when i can use it , i don't use because i have in mind that if i spoil it right now the next one will take ages to build up. And without us using the Supercharged Gas when can be as effective as other Healers. Here you also must take close look on Supercharged Gas description as it boost damage and healing abilities and this proves that by design we are always:

 

HEALER / DPS NO MATTER WHAT SPECIALIZATION WE WILL TAKE WE ARE SUPPORT CLASS MIX NEITHER EXCELLENT AT HEALING OR DPS

 

So by design we can't be better healers because that would made other classes the worse choice, and neither we can be DPS because other classes are dedicated to do just that.

 

So we and other must understand the role of Mercenary / Commando as Heavy Universal Support and as a Support we must always come with someone to fully use our skills we are not some class that alone can make huge difference. And we can't see WZ as series on 1 vs 1 fights, you fight as a team . When we understand class roles in group fighting and other group mates also then we can talk about what is overpowered underpowered

 

I am non ranked PvP player and love BH PvP especially after bolster and 2.0 changes i am still lvl 51 so there is much to learn. But from my experience when some Tank gives me protection/guard along with one DPS and i am supporting them with Heal/DPS/Stuns and they are Helping me in those situation i can see, feel and like the role that we are designed to have.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Nebdar

[Azarai]

My eyes just got crit for over 9000....

[Nebdar]

My eyes just got crit for over 9000....

 

i have read others you can read mine and this topic isn't simple so you can't make 3 sentence full explanation

[BoushhDC]

Hi there! I am on Pot5 with Elskan and am in the guild that brings a Commando to rateds regularly.[...]

 

You are in *the* guild that brings a commando? I was given the impression that there was more than just one. :/

 

And while I do think that Commandos and Sages fill a very similar role, I had been advocating for a Sage dps over Commando because I think Sage will beat a Commando and have better healing. Just my 2 cents.

 

So you think that Sage DPS will beat a commando and have better healing? You mean like this?:

 

http://i.imgur.com/vDu0Zkq.jpg

 

The top two spots on the scoreboard are a commando & sage respectively. While the heals are within about 20k of each other, the sage's damage is well more than double. It would seem your two cents might be right on the money at this point...so to speak.

Edited May 31, 2013 by BoushhDC

[Kovaos]

If only there were another thread talking about commando dps...

[islander]

I feel like I've been in a long term relationship with Bioware when i hit /played and now it's time to break up w her. To prevent feeling like an *****hole, i've decided to list out my grievances, though i know she will refuse to change. Maybe this will help with the closure when it's finally time to leave. Who knows. Maybe she will come to my house in the middle of the night and leave a patch note at my door saying she's sorry and wants to work it out. Or maybe she will give a bj to the sentinel living across the street again like a whore. Either way, it's going to be a bumpy ride this summer.

 

Quoted as it's pure gold and it applies to many PvPers, rated or not who spend most of their time in warzones.

 

Look, I personally don't know how bad off Commandos are in rated DPS, but non-POT5's I'd certainly trust this guys judgment. He's the GM of a very highly rated Republic pvp guild on the server. He doesn't 'need' buffs because he's terrible. He's a better pure PvPer then a good 98% of you reading this, myself certianly included.

 

I also think it's long been obvious that you don't bring commando healers into rated warzones, hell you barely see them in normals. Commando/Merc healing needed love before 2.0, and it STILL needs love to compete in PvP at ANY level.

Edited May 31, 2013 by islander

[Capt_Beers]

You should ABSOLUTELY balance game-play based on ranked warzones because that's the one place where you can evaluate controlled fights. I could see how in regs you could get dellusional about a class' ability, especially commandos. I see screenshots from commandos who say everything is fine because they hit 2 mil damage. It's usually from a reg where the cross healing from three healers overcomes the focus fire so massive numbers are put up and there's only a few deaths. Ranked matches show you everything you need to know about the class and right now the sage/gunslinger/smash dps is taking a dump on the commando.

 

I didn't say keep ranked out of the balancing discussion but to keep in mind the majority of game play takes place in regular WZ's.

 

The best idea I've heard on this forum is to make every match ranked. Not in rewards but with rating if everyone has a rating then BW could do some matchmaking. Then it would be much easier to balance the classes as people wouldn't be playing much more skilled players and we could see how the classes are performing much more clearly.

[islander]

 

The best idea I've heard on this forum is to make every match ranked. Not in rewards but with rating if everyone has a rating then BW could do some matchmaking. Then it would be much easier to balance the classes as people wouldn't be playing much more skilled players and we could see how the classes are performing much more clearly.

 

Yes, this. People will still quit, but I bet you'll probably see less of it.

[BoushhDC]

Is anyone still not convinced that Commandos are treated as second-class citizens even by the developers?

 

I present for your consideration Exhibit Q:

 

Okay, and now one more slap in the face to troopers in general: now the BIS offhand for PvP is a crafted 54 purple. Scoundrels & Gunslingers can have theirs made by Armstechs (shotgun/scattergun and pistol, respectively). Consulars & Knights can have theirs crafted by Artifices. And where are the lvl 54 crafted generators with Aim? *crickets* No such thing. [...]

Edited May 31, 2013 by BoushhDC