2.1.1 Second relic for Deception PvP

[Balalakaz]

Any ideas which relic would be the best choice for second relis's slot at pvp after 2.1.1 release?

[BIG_M]

most likely the internal force proc relic at the moment

[Pearlie]

Any ideas which relic would be the best choice for second relis's slot at pvp after 2.1.1 release?

 

Matrix cube.

[mastirkal]

Matrix cube.

 

Yes equip the level 50 columi grade relic. This is completely sound.

Edited May 31, 2013 by mastirkal

[Pearlie]

Yes equip the level 50 columi grade relic. This is completely sound.

 

Have you heard of bolster?

 

Guess not.

[Astarica]

It'd be the one that does kinetic force damage. I think it's called Kinetic Tempest.

 

There seems to be a religion to always use Matrix Cube in PvP since the beginning of the game even though they were never BiS for PvP at any point in the game. A Matrix Cube isn't going to add 264 or so points of tooltip damage every 4 or even 5 GCDs. You can verify that by just equipping one and check your tooltips, but people seem to fall into the trap of thinking the damage on proc being small, so surely Matrix Cube must top it. Yes the proc on the relic is small, but the constant damage added by the Matrix Cube is even smaller.

[Pearlie]

It'd be the one that does kinetic force damage. I think it's called Kinetic Tempest.

 

There seems to be a religion to always use Matrix Cube in PvP since the beginning of the game even though they were never BiS for PvP at any point in the game. A Matrix Cube isn't going to add 264 or so points of tooltip damage every 4 or even 5 GCDs. You can verify that by just equipping one and check your tooltips, but people seem to fall into the trap of thinking the damage on proc being small, so surely Matrix Cube must top it. Yes the proc on the relic is small, but the constant damage added by the Matrix Cube is even smaller.

 

Not in a warzone.

[mastirkal]

Not in a warzone.

 

No, this is an utter falsehood. Matrix cube has never and will never be a BiS item. At level 55 bolster will not allow it to outweigh a conquerer or partisan relic even remotely.

[Pearlie]

No, this is an utter falsehood. Matrix cube has never and will never be a BiS item. At level 55 bolster will not allow it to outweigh a conquerer or partisan relic even remotely.

 

Test it.

[mastirkal]

Test it.

 

No need.

[Pearlie]

No need.

 

Oh.

 

Well, you're completely in the dark.

 

If you were posting this 2 days ago, you'd be right. But as it stands, you're wrong.

 

I know. It's a tough pill to swallow. I don't like it either. But given the current bolster system and the lack of a decent second relic for DPS, the matrix cube wins the second slot.

 

In full PVP gear with a matrix cube, you have 2017 expertise and a nice boost to your overall damage.

 

But this isn't even this biggest headscratcher. Check this out.

[Xinika]

Oh.

 

Well, you're completely in the dark.

 

If you were posting this 2 days ago, you'd be right. But as it stands, you're wrong.

 

I know. It's a tough pill to swallow. I don't like it either. But given the current bolster system and the lack of a decent second relic for DPS, the matrix cube wins the second slot.

 

In full PVP gear with a matrix cube, you have 2017 expertise and a nice boost to your overall damage.

 

But this isn't even this biggest headscratcher. Check this out.

 

But this is a bugged matter. Do we really want to be promoting bugged issues / gearing that will eventually be fixed?

[Pearlie]

But this is a bugged matter. Do we really want to be promoting bugged issues / gearing that will eventually be fixed?

 

I'm not promoting using the craftable pve gear.

 

The matrix cube, however, is less of a bugged issue and more a sad truth. The other current pvp relics (again, for dps) are just...garbage.

[JP_Legatus]

My matrix shard gave me an extra 60ish bonus damage on my maul without having an augment on it in the warzones while giving me the same expertise on the augmented pvp kinetic relic. The kinetic proc relic was "mathed" to add about 40dps, and the matrix shard also provides some other bonuses (more endurance and crit). The math shows quite clearly the matrix shard is better. Edited May 31, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[MiaRB]

augmented PVP dmg proc relic:

103 end

32 will

20 power

109 exp

30% chance for +202 int dmg every 4.5 seconds.

 

augmented matrix cube:

76 end

98 will

27 crit

 

I tried adding augment to cube for comparison but couldn't at a mk-9 slot. matrix cube is not BIS, lol. and if you are not augmenting relic( and all other gear ), then you really shouldn't be worried about what BIS is anyway.

 

edit: was able to add aug to cube. needs to be equipped to accept the mk-9 kit I guess.

Edited June 1, 2013 by MiaRB

[Pearlie]

augmented PVP dmg proc relic:

103 end

32 will

20 power

109 exp

30% chance for +202 int dmg every 4.5 seconds.

 

matrix cube:

56 end

66 will

27 crit

 

I tried adding augment to cube for comparison but couldn't at a mk-9 slot. matrix cube is not BIS, lol. and if you are not augmenting relic( and all other gear ), then you really shouldn't be worried about what BIS is anyway.

 

You're making the mistake of taking the stats at face value. Inside a warzone with bolster, the matrix cube is a different animal. It can be augmented; you have to click the drop down box and select it.

[MiaRB]

You're making the mistake of taking the stats at face value. Inside a warzone with bolster, the matrix cube is a different animal. It can be augmented; you have to click the drop down box and select it.

 

was able to add aug to cube. needed to be equipped first I guess.

 

anyway, compared both in a WZ. cube gave +14 force dmg and +14 wep dmg. tiny amount of extra crit % and less health than with relic.

 

I don't think +14 dmg is out doing the proc from relic. so still not BIS as far as I can see.

Edited June 1, 2013 by MiaRB

[Asaxor]

augmented PVP dmg proc relic:

...

30% chance for +202 int dmg every 4.5 seconds.

 

Firstly, this is not how it works, you won't have 202 internal damage every 4.5 seconds. The damage will proc and when it does it can't proc again for the next 4.5 s. After the 4.5 seconds went by, your attacks have a 30% chance to trigger it again. It's much more reasonable to assume the damage will trigger every 6-8 seconds, depending if you're playing a spec with a lot of dots rolling or not.

 

Secondly, relics placed in the lower slot don't seem to trigger reliably or at all.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6378208

Seems as of now the matrix cube is quite a good choice actually.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Asaxor
correction

[MiaRB]

Firstly, this is not how it works, you won't have 202 internal damage every 4.5 seconds. The damage will proc and when it does it can't proc again for the next 4.5 s. After the 4.5 seconds went by, your attacks have a 30% chance to trigger it again. It's much more reasonable to assume the damage will trigger every 6-8 seconds, depending if you're playing a spec with a lot of dots rolling or not.

 

Secondly, relics placed in the lower slot don't seem to trigger reliably or at all.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6378208

Seems as of now the matrix cube is quite a good choice actually.

 

that is what I said, it has a 30% chance to proc every 4.5 seconds. even if it only proced once every 9 seconds, it would still be giving more DPS than +14 extra dmg does. 9 seconds is 6 GCDs. 6 * 14 = 84. 84 is < 202.

 

I have dmg proc relic in second slot and it is proccing as it should.

[Neoforcer]

But this is a bugged matter. Do we really want to be promoting bugged issues / gearing that will eventually be fixed?

 

The matrix cube is not a bug atm it is the fact that the lower relic slot on your character has a bug itself. Any relic that has a proc in that slot is bug and the proc happens at random times. It ends up messing up both proc relic CD The Matrix cube is getting bolster to a 55 relic regardless. Which makes it Bis atm over any other relic along with the power proc relic.

 

The other bug is the fact that you have maxed out damage at 60% at 2013 expertise that will be fixed. What wont be fixed is pve gear getting bolster to 55. Things may change when the fix the expertise bug. But Pve gear being great for pvp will not ever be changed and that is a sad day for us hardcore PVPERS.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Neoforcer

[Neoforcer]

was able to add aug to cube. needed to be equipped first I guess.

 

anyway, compared both in a WZ. cube gave +14 force dmg and +14 wep dmg. tiny amount of extra crit % and less health than with relic.

 

I don't think +14 dmg is out doing the proc from relic. so still not BIS as far as I can see.

 

It is when the lower relic slot on your character sheet is bugged and causing the relic to not trigger.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6377696#post6377696

and

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=646040&highlight=proc+relic

 

so if you are using a proc relic right now you are loosing out big time.

[CBRGhostRider]

that is what I said, it has a 30% chance to proc every 4.5 seconds. even if it only proced once every 9 seconds

 

Actually it has a 30% chance to proc on damage, and this can happen only once every 4.5 seconds at most... or something like that.

 

It has been a while since I've done any probability, so I need some geeks to double check:

 

Let e be the event where:

e = relic proccing during a GCD

and

p = probability of relic proccing during a GCD

 

Facts given:

30% chance to proc on damage

won't proc more than once every 4.5 secs (every 3 GCDs)

 

Lets further assume:

alacrity=0 (every GCD = 1.5 sec)

Every GCD has only 1 damaging attack (ignoring Dots, or multiple attacks per GCD e.g. mercs rapid shots)

Lets also assume that we are performing non-stop attacks, i.e. every GCD is an attack.

 

For relic to proc in current GCD, previous 2 GCDs should not have procs.

Prob (prev 2 GCDs not having procs) = (1-p) * (1-p)

Furthermore, given the above, it still only has a 30% chance of proccing.

so:

p = (1-p) * (1-p) * 0.3

p = (1 - 2p + p^2) * 0.3

p = 0.3 - 0.6p + 0.3p^2

0.3 p^2 - 1.6p + 0.3 = 0

 

This is a quadratic eqn of the form:

ax^2 + bx + c = 0

 

Solution is (-b + or - sqrt(b^2 - (4 a c))) / (2a)

 

Solutions are:

0.1946 or 5.1387.

 

Of course, a probability greater than 1 makes no sense, so I would assume the correct answer is 0.1946.

 

Therefore, given the above facts and assumptions, the relic procs *on average* for 19.46% of the GCDs which do damage.

i.e. 1 in every 5 attacks

or once every 7.5 seconds

[MiaRB]

It is when the lower relic slot on your character sheet is bugged and causing the relic to not trigger.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6377696#post6377696

and

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=646040&highlight=proc+relic

 

so if you are using a proc relic right now you are loosing out big time.

 

what slot a relic is in makes no dif. what the bug appears to be( if it is a bug and not intended ) is the power boost proc will not trigger while the damage proc is on CD.

 

damage proc relics > power boost relics in terms of DPS. they parse higher on trainging dummies... and also in WZs, there are many times when you waste most of the 6s of extra power boost( from stuns, knockbacks, roots or being kited) so dmg proc relic gives even more total DPS in WZ than on dummy parses.

 

even with power boost not proccing when dmg proc is on CD, the two relics still give more total DPS than power boost + matrix cube. actually dmg proc + matrix cube will give more total DPS that cube with power boost relic.

[CBRGhostRider]

damage proc relics > power boost relics in terms of DPS. they parse higher on trainging dummies... and also in WZs, there are many times when you waste most of the 6s of extra power boost( from stuns, knockbacks, roots or being kited) so dmg proc relic gives even more total DPS in WZ than on dummy parses.

 

 

Burst is king in PvP, and total damage isn't that useful. Yes, there are times when stuns eat my power proc relics, but there are also times when they give me the extra burst I love! Burst kills... sustained damage is healed through.

Edited June 3, 2013 by CBRGhostRider

[Xinika]

The matrix cube is not a bug atm it is the fact that the lower relic slot on your character has a bug itself. Any relic that has a proc in that slot is bug and the proc happens at random times. It ends up messing up both proc relic CD The Matrix cube is getting bolster to a 55 relic regardless. Which makes it Bis atm over any other relic along with the power proc relic.

 

The other bug is the fact that you have maxed out damage at 60% at 2013 expertise that will be fixed. What wont be fixed is pve gear getting bolster to 55. Things may change when the fix the expertise bug. But Pve gear being great for pvp will not ever be changed and that is a sad day for us hardcore PVPERS.

Yeah, I swapped to M.Cube after some testing. Bolster really needs to go...