Watchman - power or streanght augments?

[Snoizer]

Hey

 

My guildies says that power is almost like the main stat for watchmans. So what do you guys says?

Should I use str and end augs, or power and end augs? Which one give me more dmg, or is there even a confirmed "best" of the two?

 

I really dont wanna mess this up cuz its alot of money that need to be spent.

[Mikeieveli]

Strength augs for watchman. Strength gives some crit, although minimal, and is preferred on the dots of watchman, especially for your self heals.

[Snoizer]

Have been reading almost 10 pages of this question now and the conclusion seem to be that there is almost no difference at all. Ill just go with what is cheaper.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Have been reading almost 10 pages of this question now and the conclusion seem to be that there is almost no difference at all. Ill just go with what is cheaper.

 

There's a minor difference. Augment for Mainstat. 100 Main stat gives .23 crit% and 98.32 or so Force and Melee power

[AbsoluteMikex]

What are you guys Parsing that are saying Strength Augments? I'm Full power augments and with 52 Crit rating and only a 2-set bonus. The Crit from main stat DR's HARD

[KeyboardNinja]

The math is pretty clear: power, power and more power. Crit doesn't help Watchman as much as you would think. The main purpose of the crit talent is to give you 6 free focus every time you hit Zen. Main Stat *would* be good, but only if Sentinels had a main stat talent boost, which they don't.

 

Basically, all three of the sentinels specs should go full power and eschew crit/strength as much as possible.

[Slivovidze]

Wait right there KBN...

 

I thought that as a Watchman, I apply lots of smaller ticks, which will provide lots of chances for high Crit chance to proc, making my damage output higher than if they would just be lots of a bit less small ticks.

 

I don't have the maths, but I thought that for Watchmen, Crit is the main stat to hunt, and augments are Strength, while other two specs go for Power stuff.

 

Wrong?

[KeyboardNinja]

Wait right there KBN...

 

I thought that as a Watchman, I apply lots of smaller ticks, which will provide lots of chances for high Crit chance to proc, making my damage output higher than if they would just be lots of a bit less small ticks.

 

I don't have the maths, but I thought that for Watchmen, Crit is the main stat to hunt, and augments are Strength, while other two specs go for Power stuff.

 

Wrong?

 

:-) Multiplication distributes over addition. Crit is factored into damage as a multiplier. Thus, if you have one big 8k hit, average crit contribution can be figured in the following way:

 

8000 * (1 + crit*surge)

 

Picking numbers for the sake of argument, let's say 20% crit and 72% surge:

 

8000 * (1 + 0.2*0.7) = 9120

 

That's the average value of your 8k ability. Now let's split that across multiple ticks:

 

2(1 + 0.2*0.7) + 2(1 + 0.2*0.7) + 2(1 + 0.2*0.7) + 2(1 + 0.2*0.7)

 

This is equivalent to:

 

(2 + 2 + 2 + 2)(1 + 0.2*0.7) = 9120

 

Thus, the average value is exactly the same. The only difference is that each tick has a separate crit roll, which means that the single 8k hit is more RNG-prone over the short term, and will thus have more random variance than the DoT crits. The average remains the same though (essentially all fights in TOR are long enough that the mean is what is interesting).

 

Thus, crit is no more valuable as a baseline state for Watchman than for the other two specs, and the DR has been shown numerous times to be FAR behind Power at current gear levels. Thus, Power over Crit all the way through the Underworld tier (and perhaps beyond, I haven't looked). As for Strength, the bonus damage contribution is significantly lower than Power's, and the crit contribution is almost non-existent (full Strength augments will contribute around 1% crit chance). It *would* be worth it if Sentinels had main stat bonuses like many of the other classes, but we don't. Thus, the stat priority is:

 

Power > Strength > Crit

Accuracy (to 100%) > Surge (to around 500 rating) > Alacrity

[atschai]

The math is pretty clear: power, power and more power. Crit doesn't help Watchman as much as you would think. The main purpose of the crit talent is to give you 6 free focus every time you hit Zen. Main Stat *would* be good, but only if Sentinels had a main stat talent boost, which they don't.

 

Basically, all three of the sentinels specs should go full power and eschew crit/strength as much as possible.

 

I beg to differ, as bonus damage only contributes to about half of damage dealt (the rest being weaopon damage and stdhealth), the amount mainstat crit increases overall damage is way higher relative to power/strength (which only affect bonus damage) than you anticipate. This makes strength augments slightly better than power augments, even for classes without mainstat buff.

Plus, crit helps with focus buildup on watchman.

Edited June 4, 2013 by atschai

[skomerko]

deleted Edited March 31, 2019 by skomerko

[Slivovidze]

Thanks KBN, I will take it into consideration when gearing. Sadly I don't remember what kinds of modifications there are, but I certainly hope Power and Crit aren't on the same position. And if they are, I still want like 20% crit, right? Right? Or do I skil Crit completely? Edited June 4, 2013 by Slivovidze

[oofalong]

While I usually agree with KeyboardNinja's analysis, I believe for Watchman Strength augments are superior.

 

The simple reason is that Searing Saber boosts our DoT surge by 30%, and DoTs make up ~40% of this spec's damage. Thus, we want the DoT's crit'ing as much as possible. Incidentally, this also increases the likelihood of proc extra resource from either Plasma Blades and Burning Focus, which allows us to more regularly use higher damaging abilities that cost resource.

 

In case you want to see some math about this:

 

Power contributes 0.23 to bonus damage, while Strength contributes 0.20. However, Strength is buffed by the Sith Inquisitor | Jedi Consular buff by 5%. Thus, the comparison becomes 0.23 vs. 0.21 (1.05 * 0.20 = 0.21). The increase in bonus damage is thus 0.02 per point of power. Considering Power Augments provide an extra 448 (32 * 14 = 448) Power, the increase to Bonus Damage is 8.96 (448 * 0.02 = 8.96). Our class buff boosts these both by 5% so we end up with a total of 9.408 more bonus damage from Power augments.

 

Next, Strength also increases crit %. These 448 points in strength contribute 1% to crit chance. Specifically from 2,349 strength to 2,797 based on full 72 gear and Nano-Infused Stim.

 

Now with these two options - higher bonus damage or higher crit chance - it is important to examine the actual abilities used in determining which augments to use. Our rotation should included the maximum number of uses of Cauterize and Overload Saber. I appreciate that Zen makes our DoTs auto-cit; however, if you use Overload Saber and Cauterize as you are supposed to Zen will only be able to make about 27% of our burns auto-crit. This means the remaining 73% will benefit from increased crit chance and capitalize on the 30% free surge.

 

You can click on the link in my signature to download my model so you can test builds yourself.

[Bugattiboy]

The math is pretty clear: power, power and more power. Crit doesn't help Watchman as much as you would think. The main purpose of the crit talent is to give you 6 free focus every time you hit Zen. Main Stat *would* be good, but only if Sentinels had a main stat talent boost, which they don't.

 

Basically, all three of the sentinels specs should go full power and eschew crit/strength as much as possible.

How come then I see all the watchmans in the progression guilds on my server using strength augments? Yes, math doesn't lie, but there is also safety/strength/certainty in numbers.

 

Also, this post says otherwise KBN.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Bugattiboy

[Slugamaniac]

Quoting directly from the mmomechanics threat titled Annihilation | Watchman Compendium:

 

"The Power vs. Primary stat debate is one of the most contested in the game right now. Previously, I advocated primary stat over power, and my math showed this. Now, my math shows Strength augments are superior by 0.8%.

 

Power contributes 0.23 to bonus damage, while Strength contributes 0.20. However, Strength is buffed by the Sith Inquisitor | Jedi Consular buff by 5%. Thus, the comparison becomes 0.23 vs. 0.21 (1.05 * 0.20 = 0.21). The increase in bonus damage is thus 0.02 per point of power. Considering Power Augments provide an extra 448 (32 * 14 = 448) Power, the increase to Bonus Damage is 8.96 (448 * 0.02 = 8.96). Our class buff boosts these both by 5% so we end up with a total of 9.408 more bonus damage from Power augments.

 

Next, Strength also increases crit %. These 448 points in strength contribute 1% to crit chance. Specifically from 2,349 strength to 2,797 based on full 72 gear and Nano-Infused Stim.

 

Thus, the true comparison becomes 9.408 more Bonus Damage vs. 1% more crit. Again my math shows Strength to be ever so slightly better even at the next tier of gear."

[Lanja]

For what it is worth, I've always heard that mainstat trumps, but of late I have fairly consistently heard that Power is a very close second to Strength for Sentinels - making it a bit of a toss up. My main is a Synthweaver and can make the Adv Might 28 augments, which answers the question for me. I suppose if your stable of alts can't crank out either of them, I'd go with whichever of them is best bargain on the GTN.

[dipstik]

using the inostyle spreadsheet, if you switch out 448*1.05 strength for 448 power, you go from 3072.59 to 3072.44 sustained dps, and that is without considering rage benifits from crit (in 75 gear, no relics). previously i had been switching out strength for power strait without the 1.05 because i assumed that was in the spreadhsett later, but i dont htink it is. and it looks like the next set of gear (not 75 but after that) will make room for alacrity. right now im getting that 32 alacrity with 430 accuracy and 860-430-32=398 surge is BiS, but due to item contraints, surge still trumps alacrity.

[dipstik]

another spreadsheet shows that power is.01 dps better than strength, per point. Edited June 12, 2013 by dipstik

[Ardarell_Solo]

...which is why you should go for strength augments, since no spreadsheet includes the extra resource generation from melee crits. Just one more high damage ability used in a 5 minute fight rather than just autoattack will outperform 0.01 dps easily :-)

[dcgregorya]

The math is pretty clear: power, power and more power. Crit doesn't help Watchman as much as you would think. The main purpose of the crit talent is to give you 6 free focus every time you hit Zen. Main Stat *would* be good, but only if Sentinels had a main stat talent boost, which they don't.

 

Basically, all three of the sentinels specs should go full power and eschew crit/strength as much as possible.

 

Agreed and especially because there is no talent in the sentinel trees that give +9% main stat like other ACs get. That talent is the only reason why mainstat is attractive for them. Point for point you want power.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Agreed and especially because there is no talent in the sentinel trees that give +9% main stat like other ACs get. That talent is the only reason why mainstat is attractive for them.

 

No it's not, you are, too, missing out on extra resource generation via critical hits. Just one more Merciless as opposed to using strike - please do the math on that, before proclaiming this oversimplified assumption.

 

Apart from pure math and static dummy hitting ;-) -> More focus may also allow you to keep your Merciless buff up in raid situations, when it's otherwise not possible - or it may allow the use of another high damage ability, before you have to switch target.

 

E.g. yesterday Asation NiM: Just one more GCD, before Heirad will start Surging Chain and I'm lacking just one focus for another Merciless, before I have to switch on Ciphas. But then the last tick of master strike crits and I CAN get the Merciless off.

If something like that happens before a target switch with a long distance to move or the boss disappearing for a few secs and your merciless buiff is just about to run out, the difference is even more significant.

 

TLDR: If you can get a little crit boost for a static dps-difference that is so tiny, go and take it. One more "monster hit" will easily outperform it.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Ardarell_Solo