Operative Healing

[JediMasterSLC]

tbh i could not decide wich of the three options would be correct and choose thr wrong one as english is not my native language i can live with such mistakes

 

Awww now I feel bad.

[Carter_Mathis]

nerf the 30% dodge from the roll imo.

 

sure, because literally no one uses Scamper to just boost their defense chance, especially with the cd on Dodge

[revcrisis]

If sorcs and mercs want to be considered for any serious ranked arena healing, they will need to nerf the operative healing tree. Simple as that. Sorc healers bring some nice utility like pulls, bubbles, and puddles. I can see them being desirable for ranked arenas if healing ops are nerfed. Likewise, mercs bring some powerful single target healing and heavy armor for a hard kill. I can see them being desirable if they buff the AOE heals for merc.

 

But once again, you need to nerf the strongest healing class before you can make other classes desirable. If Bioware can successfully bring the 3 healing trees in line with each other and around the same level, then teams will have options to select for their healer. Your usual op can't run? No problem, let's bring our sorc heals. As of now, it's operative or nothing.

Edited August 20, 2013 by revcrisis

[sithBracer]

If sorcs and mercs want to be considered for any serious ranked arena healing, they will need to nerf the operative healing tree. Simple as that. Sorc healers bring some nice utility like pulls, bubbles, and puddles. I can see them being desirable for ranked arenas if healing ops are nerfed. Likewise, mercs bring some powerful single target healing and heavy armor for a hard kill. I can see them being desirable if they buff the AOE heals for merc.

 

But once again, you need to nerf the strongest healing class before you can make other classes desirable. If Bioware can successfully bring the 3 healing trees in line with each other and around the same level, then teams will have options to select for their healer. Your usual op can't run? No problem, let's bring our sorc heals. As of now, it's operative or nothing.

 

Instead of nerfing a class so its unusable for smash monkeys to pound on, how about we just buff the other healing classes up to be able to compete? Wow, that sounded like rocket science to you didn't it?

 

Right now the op healer is the best not because it's overpowered, but because the other classes just can't compete. Mercs are a joke and sorcs, while not horrible are squishy and lacks any mobility in its heals. The self heal is garbage compared to how much damage a smasher or a pyro can do, their HoT is only useful for its proc, and their force barrier makes them a sitting duck (I personally get a grenade ready to escape). The only redeeming feature is the static barrier which disappears a lot faster than you expect it to and extricate (for huttball only).

 

Anyone who thinks op is so overpowered, needs to make an op and play against a decently geared marauder/jugg/merc who knows what they are doing. When you barely survive just to run into a small corner to heal yourself (leaving your team without heals) you probably won't think they are so OP.

Edited August 20, 2013 by sithBracer

[Ovanmaru]

technically you are right if you speak about cover "state"

 

But he is right when he speaks about cover mitigation,as it only works if you stay ducked, as soon as you use a gcd or a channelling ability the character loses cover mitigation for the duration of channelling / animation, but he stays in "cover state", so he is rooted has access to a useless version of sniper shot, and can throw his "explosive", but loses access to some other skills like backstab, but already selective mitigation goes away, until he stops doing things.

 

also note that ops cover only work if there is actual "cover" to cover against, and only mitigate regular attacks IF they are not doing anything, it doesn't affect tech-force and dots.

 

Operative 's cover is a gimmick and accounts for something like 0.2% damage mitigation over the duration of a WZ, operatives use it as such on very rare occasions, cause it totally negates their mobility which is a WAY better mitigation technique.

 

People ranting about Operatives cover are really conceding their blatant ignorance of the class and should really play one for a week or two to get a better grasp of exactly how they work.

^Couldn't have said it better myself. I was honestly shocked to see that this was one of OP's main points lol.

 

@People QQ'ing about the roll: GOOD pvp players know when to slow Ops. I'm surprised you haven't figured out why.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Ovanmaru

[sithBracer]

^Couldn't have said it better myself. I was honestly shocked to see that this was one of OP's main points lol.

 

@People QQ'ing about the roll: GOOD pvp players know when to slow Ops. I'm surprised you haven't figured out why.

 

They're just a bunch of smash monkeys who are upset they can't kill someone in 2-3 gcds anymore. Now they have to use *gasp* strategy and team work. oh no!!

[Ovanmaru]

They're just a bunch of smash monkeys who are upset they can't kill someone in 2-3 gcds anymore. Now they have to use *gasp* strategy and team work. oh no!!

 

Remember when all they needed was force leap --> brostrike? That was SO MUCH FUN GUISE! Lets go back that please!

 

People will ALWAYS complain about healers, no matter what MMO and no matter who gets nurfed to ****. Go ahead and nurf us, I'll still get top heals in 90% of the games I play.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Ovanmaru

[sithBracer]

Remember when all they needed was force leap --> brostrike? That was SO MUCH FUN GUISE! Lets go back that please!

 

I wasn't here then but a lot of PvPers I play with say they hated it back then and either quit or were thinking of quitting because they had no choice but to either play the smash spec or be smashed, and it got boring.

[Darth_Precursor]

Yes, operative healers do need to be toned down a bit, but not nerfed into the ground. This means changed have to come from the Medicine tree, so that it wont affect the dps specs which need buffs anyway.

 

My suggestions:

 

1. Make Exfiltrate cost 30 energy. (up fro 25) Every time you use it in succession, the energy cost is reduced by X%, OR the distance is reduced by X%. But, even if you are slowed or stunned, you roll the full distance. This would encourage it to be used as an escape mechanic (as it should be) and only to be used 1 or 2 times.

 

2. Increase rate limits for HoT's to grant Tactical Advantage.

[Eugee]

I hate Scamper. I mean I HATE it. I don't know if Op healing is too strong, I don't know if they should have stealth and cover, I don't know if <insert tree> is too strong for Operatives.

 

I just know that when a mother F-er catches the ball at the top of the ramp by midfield and SCAMPERS to the goaline in 4 GCDs--I hate that ability.

 

Hey, let me spam Dual Saber Throw 4 times in a row. Or let me spam Saber Reflect. Let me use it as long as I have 6 focus/rage, and that's fair, right? I mean that's HALF my resource bar that I couldn't possibly fill up by hitting, being hit, leaping, throwing, choking, or just pushing Focus.

 

Spammable Scamper is complete *********. It's the most broken ability in objective based PVP.

[Ovanmaru]

I hate Scamper. I mean I HATE it. I don't know if Op healing is too strong, I don't know if they should have stealth and cover, I don't know if <insert tree> is too strong for Operatives.

 

I just know that when a mother F-er catches the ball at the top of the ramp by midfield and SCAMPERS to the goaline in 4 GCDs--I hate that ability.

 

Hey, let me spam Dual Saber Throw 4 times in a row. Or let me spam Saber Reflect. Let me use it as long as I have 6 focus/rage, and that's fair, right? I mean that's HALF my resource bar that I couldn't possibly fill up by hitting, being hit, leaping, throwing, choking, or just pushing Focus.

 

Spammable Scamper is complete *********. It's the most broken ability in objective based PVP.

 

You're....trollin right? No one is THAT ignorant of SWTOR unless they just joined.

[sithBracer]

I hate Scamper. I mean I HATE it. I don't know if Op healing is too strong, I don't know if they should have stealth and cover, I don't know if <insert tree> is too strong for Operatives.

 

I just know that when a mother F-er catches the ball at the top of the ramp by midfield and SCAMPERS to the goaline in 4 GCDs--I hate that ability.

 

Hey, let me spam Dual Saber Throw 4 times in a row. Or let me spam Saber Reflect. Let me use it as long as I have 6 focus/rage, and that's fair, right? I mean that's HALF my resource bar that I couldn't possibly fill up by hitting, being hit, leaping, throwing, choking, or just pushing Focus.

 

Spammable Scamper is complete *********. It's the most broken ability in objective based PVP.

 

You are comparing two very powerful moves to a simple roll. How about you let ops spam flash bang instead? If you haven't figure out that all you have to do is save your force charge/leap for when the op tries to scamper away then there is no hope for you.

 

One thing that is BS in huttball is the scampers ability to go through fire unhurt (I did this many times). I think that was an unintended consequence of them reusing the code for the roll into cover move. That should be fixed, if you roll through fire you should take damage.

Edited August 20, 2013 by sithBracer

[SpaniardInfinity]

Instead of nerfing a class so its unusable for smash monkeys to pound on, how about we just buff the other healing classes up to be able to compete? Wow, that sounded like rocket science to you didn't it?

 

Right now the op healer is the best not because it's overpowered, but because the other classes just can't compete. Mercs are a joke and sorcs, while not horrible are squishy and lacks any mobility in its heals. The self heal is garbage compared to how much damage a smasher or a pyro can do, their HoT is only useful for its proc, and their force barrier makes them a sitting duck (I personally get a grenade ready to escape). The only redeeming feature is the static barrier which disappears a lot faster than you expect it to and extricate (for huttball only).

 

Anyone who thinks op is so overpowered, needs to make an op and play against a decently geared marauder/jugg/merc who knows what they are doing. When you barely survive just to run into a small corner to heal yourself (leaving your team without heals) you probably won't think they are so OP.

 

Problem is, the developers have explicitly said that when it comes to class balance, they prefer to nerf the outliers back in line rather than buff everyone to that overpowered level. Why? Because this game isn't just PVP, it's actually mostly PVE. And if you buff everyone so extremely, all of that content will need to be redone. And whether or not any of us PVPers like it, historically, the developers have refused to go down that road.

 

And Scoundrel, in PVP, is overpowered compared to the other two healers, which are balanced with respect to one another. Sages and Commandos have distinct strengths and weaknesses, whereas Scoundrels have no such weakness. Enlighten me, name me one weakness that a Scoundrel faces that neither of the other healers also deal with. I can list out all of the pro's and con's if that's what you'd like, but at the end of the day, Scoundrels have way too many strengths for their minimal number of weaknesses. The best starting point in dealing with them is to bring their resource management in line and after that, if there still needs to be more changes, reduce some of the passive buffs in their skill tree.

 

And bonus fact: as I've said before, one thing that has made Scoundrels even more powerful is that they have the same overpowered system Combat Medics had (and got nerfed for in 1.2), only the present version is better suited to them, way more potent, and way more efficient. Class designed for PVP + overpowered mechanic = overpowered class. Who woulda thought?

Edited August 20, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[Morde_]

I would happily trade my operative roll with the sniper roll.

[Gren-Aluren]

You are comparing two very powerful moves to a simple roll. How about you let ops spam flash bang instead? If you haven't figure out that all you have to do is save your force charge/leap for when the op tries to scamper away then there is no hope for you.

 

One thing that is BS in huttball is the scampers ability to go through fire unhurt (I did this many times). I think that was an unintended consequence of them reusing the code for the roll into cover move. That should be fixed, if you roll through fire you should take damage.

 

You can't roll through fire unhurt. Fire traps are wider then 12m, also.

 

Problem is, the developers have explicitly said that when it comes to class balance, they prefer to nerf the outliers back in line rather than buff everyone to that overpowered level. Why? Because this game isn't just PVP, it's actually mostly PVE. And if you buff everyone so extremely, all of that content will need to be redone. And whether or not any of us PVPers like it, historically, the developers have refused to go down that road.

 

And Scoundrel, in PVP, is overpowered compared to the other two healers, which are balanced with respect to one another. Sages and Commandos have distinct strengths and weaknesses, whereas Scoundrels have no such weakness. Enlighten me, name me one weakness that a Scoundrel faces that neither of the other healers also deal with. I can list out all of the pro's and con's if that's what you'd like, but at the end of the day, Scoundrels have way too many strengths for their minimal number of weaknesses. The best starting point in dealing with them is to bring their resource management in line and after that, if there still needs to be more changes, reduce some of the passive buffs in their skill tree.

 

And bonus fact: as I've said before, one thing that has made Scoundrels even more powerful is that they have the same overpowered system Combat Medics had (and got nerfed for in 1.2), only the present version is better suited to them, way more potent, and way more efficient. Class designed for PVP + overpowered mechanic = overpowered class. Who woulda thought?

 

Scoundrel was given an extra 1 energy per 1 second in 2.0. They also made ticks from Kolto Cloud give upperhand. Sawbones would be fine if they increase energy cost of the abilities so that it equates to their energy management prior to 2.0 but DPS specs definitely need that extra energy regen and Kolto Cloud shouldn't give procs of UH anymore if SRM is going to stay as spammable.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[Carter_Mathis]

You can't roll through fire unhurt. Fire traps are wider then 12m, also.

 

 

 

Scoundrel was given an extra 1 energy per 1 second in 2.0. They also made ticks from Kolto Cloud give upperhand. Sawbones would be fine if they increase energy cost of the abilities so that it equates to their energy management prior to 2.0 but DPS specs definitely need that extra energy regen and Kolto Cloud shouldn't give procs of UH anymore if SRM is going to stay as spammable.

 

You can get lucky and roll through the whole trap in between the ticks of fire, since it functions similar to XS Freighter Flyby. Additionally, you definitely cannot roll through fire while carrying the ball and wind up unscathed, it's more like running with a normal transcendence buff.

[Gren-Aluren]

OK, that makes more sense.

[Yestreen]

Just so you know: That Cover you keep talking about doesnt do jack**** for Operatives.

And Operatives can roll like 3-4 times before they are out of energy, if you slow/hinder them they roll half the length if you didnt. Seems like you just met a better player than yourself.

 

Yes it does. You can't be charged from cover and you can actually use it as a free gap closer that is off the GCD.

[belialle]

This thread is so full of BS and misinformation. Most of the people posting in this thread seem to have no clue what they're talking about and have no right to complain about buffs/nerfs for any class until they actually understand what they are talking about.

 

So many people are clueless about cover. Yeah, it's nice against pulls and force leaps. It also forces you to sit still. It's not like you can sit in cover all day long. If you do that, you're just asking to get face-planted unless you are up against totally clueless opponents. That's pretty fair trade. Evasion only acts as a self-cleanse since 2.0? No. It's always been that way. Does no one remember how surgical probe used to be? It got nerfed once, you know. People have been crying about surgical probe since the game was new.

 

Two things have changed for operative healers as I see it: 1. Energy management became much easier. 2. Exfiltrate.

 

Only thing I would change about Operative/Scoundrel healing right now is the cost of kolto probe, I mean, its 9 energy with a global cooldown, I've made that energy back by the time I can put another one on someone/someone else, this means I can HoT up 4/5/6 people to 2 stacks and bearly have lost any energy.

 

This right here is the most sensible thing I've read in this thread. I absolutely agree. This is exactly what I have been thinking lately, too. It's a small change, but with this change, we would have to think more carefully about energy management. If you're at high energy to begin with, you can spam kolto probe indefinitely. It's essentially a free heal. This is one of the biggest problems right now, as I see it.