Suggestion for the PvP update

[Hizoka]

Remove the expertise stat. Make bolster make EVERYTHING equal in PvP and make it so that you gain unique shells though PvP.

 

Real PvPers would LOVE an equal playing field, the ones who would be against it are the bad players who use PvP gear as a crutch to cover a lack of skill. You will have more people playing in PvP if it was skill based vs gear based. On top o that outside of warzones PvP gear is way too imbalanced against event eh best geared PvE players. Having 35% damage reduction and 60% bonus damage over another player trying to do something like dailies was an epicly stupid idea.

 

Even blizzard who has kept PvP gear and PvP apart for the better part of a decade has seen how stupid it was and made it so that the best PvP gear only make you equal to a PvE geared player in world PvP.

 

like i said the ONLY people who would not like are the bad players who need crutchs to cover the lack of skill. It would be nothing but positive for the game overall making PvP skill based vs gear based. So EVERYOEN can PvP on equal footing. Having PvP titles, mounts, and exclusive gear shells would be more then enough for any real PvPer.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Hizoka

[Copperheadr]

How would the PvP-er earn the mods that would go inside the shells and would they be valid for PvE, thus bringing tears in the eyes of the raider who put "so much work" in his raiding, while you earned your gear in PvP.

[Hizoka]

How would the PvP-er earn the mods that would go inside the shells and would they be valid for PvE, thus bringing tears in the eyes of the raider who put "so much work" in his raiding, while you earned your gear in PvP.

 

the same way PvEers EARN their mods... Right now no-one EARNS PvP gear... it is simply handed to them for queuing for a warzone.. win lose bad or good you will get gear just for showing up and pretending you are doing something.

 

Gear in this or any MMO should be EARNED. If high end PvP gear required a certain rating then that would at least something.

 

If you do not PvE why would you need any mods if PvP was all you wanted to do if bolster made everything equal?

 

There is no legit argument you can mount for not taking away all stats off PvP gear if they make bolster even the playing field for everyone in warzones. As it sits PvP gear only allows you to be an inferior player and pretend you are a superior player because of a gear gap. You can be one of the worst player imaginable but hand them a 60% damage increase and 35% damage reduction and magically they are a good player... i do not think so.

 

PvP should be PLAYER vs PLAYER, not gearset vs gearset as it sits now. On top of the the ONLY people who cry wanting PvP gear are the bad players who must have that crutch in order to fight fresh 55s and win, because without it even a fresh 55 will easily kill them.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Hizoka

[Copperheadr]

If you do not PvE why would you need any mods if PvP was all you wanted to do if bolster made everything equal?

 

.

 

So what would I put in the shells if I don't PvE ? Or would you want bolster to work on empty shells ?

[Hizoka]

So what would I put in the shells if I don't PvE ? Or would you want bolster to work on empty shells ?

 

bolster would work regardless if you had gear on or not... it makes everyone stats equal so it is an even playing field. That is the point of PvP its to see who is the better player, not who has better gear.

 

So to answer it would work even if the gear was empty.

[Copperheadr]

Naked PvP...your solution fails.

[Hizoka]

Naked PvP...your solution fails.

 

and why would that fail??? you would have the immature little kids naked PvPing but so what...

[Hizoka]

love it someone suggestions something that will help the game and not even the troll say anything about it... typical its not a QQ post so it gets nothing.

[Malastare]

No, you're missing their point:

 

PvE Players: Run raids, get specialized shells filled with high-end mods and high-primary-stat Earpieces and Implants. When joining warzones, get buffed by Bolster to be at-least-equal-to hardcore PvPers. In Open World, have better gear than any of the world drops.

 

PvP Players: Join warzones, get... empty shells. When running raids, they are horribly under-geared, as they are restricted to Planetary/Classic gear with a slow crawl toward Basic. In Open World, their gear puts them at a disadvantage against PvE players.

 

I'm sure that sounds like a great deal for the hardcore raiders. Essentially, it would mean that every PvP player would need to be a PvE player just to be somewhat competitive in any situation except Bolstered PvP.

 

You need to come up with a system that doesn't gimp the gear progression of PvP players, or else you might as well just shut down all warzones.

[Fleurdelis]

Remove the expertise stat. Make bolster make EVERYTHING equal in PvP and make it so that you gain unique shells though PvP.

 

Real PvPers would LOVE an equal playing field, the ones who would be against it are the bad players who use PvP gear as a crutch to cover a lack of skill. You will have more people playing in PvP if it was skill based vs gear based. On top o that outside of warzones PvP gear is way too imbalanced against event eh best geared PvE players. Having 35% damage reduction and 60% bonus damage over another player trying to do something like dailies was an epicly stupid idea.

 

Even blizzard who has kept PvP gear and PvP apart for the better part of a decade has seen how stupid it was and made it so that the best PvP gear only make you equal to a PvE geared player in world PvP.

 

like i said the ONLY people who would not like are the bad players who need crutchs to cover the lack of skill. It would be nothing but positive for the game overall making PvP skill based vs gear based. So EVERYOEN can PvP on equal footing. Having PvP titles, mounts, and exclusive gear shells would be more then enough for any real PvPer.

 

I agree and posted the same request in the suggestion forum.

 

As to the pvp qqers. There isnt much open world pvp in this game and in those areas they could have a pvp bolster system just like wz's.

 

Doing wz's could also get you comms to get better mods for your gear just like pvers. This way its skillz not gear.

[ToMyMa]

No, you're missing their point:

 

PvE Players: Run raids, get specialized shells filled with high-end mods and high-primary-stat Earpieces and Implants. When joining warzones, get buffed by Bolster to be at-least-equal-to hardcore PvPers. In Open World, have better gear than any of the world drops.

 

PvP Players: Join warzones, get... empty shells. When running raids, they are horribly under-geared, as they are restricted to Planetary/Classic gear with a slow crawl toward Basic. In Open World, their gear puts them at a disadvantage against PvE players.

 

I'm sure that sounds like a great deal for the hardcore raiders. Essentially, it would mean that every PvP player would need to be a PvE player just to be somewhat competitive in any situation except Bolstered PvP.

 

You need to come up with a system that doesn't gimp the gear progression of PvP players, or else you might as well just shut down all warzones.

 

In OW pvp (if there's any), doesn't expertise count there?

[Malastare]

In OW pvp (if there's any), doesn't expertise count there?

 

Of course, and its one of the "problems".

 

In OW-PvP, even hardcore raiders get spanked around by mid-level PvPers because of the severe bonus/penalty created by Expertise.

 

I'm on the fence about the OPs suggestion (at least part of it). I'm not convinced that Expertise is really needed. It's purpose is to separate the gear progression of PvP and PvE. With Expertise in play, PvE'ers can't jump into Warzones and trash everyone just based on gear, and PvPers can't hang out in Warzones for a couple months and then jump right into Nightmare TFB. If you want to reach the high levels of one of them, you need to put the time in with that playstyle.

 

It's a valid goal.

 

That said, gear progression in PvP isn't really all that popular. Loads of people (me included) don't want PvP ruled by gear and how long you've been dredging comms of the floor of yet another lost warzone. Expertise was the way the progression was handled, and I'm a big fan of leveling it. At the same time, I don't know that I want it removed, because I really don't want PvE players jumping into Warzones and trashing everyone with their higher-level gear.

 

The OP wants Bolster to take care of that. That's fine. It would work. What doesn't work is the OPs suggestion to remove gear progression from PvP because it leaves hardcore PvP players with no high level gear. You're a PvPer? Then its warzones for you. You want to do the dailies? Well, go to it in your Level 55 Blues, because the OP doesn't want you to ever have higher level gear. You might eventually get some Classic or Basic gear, but you'll still be overshadowed by everyone else.

 

...unless you become a PvEer. Then you get higher level gear, perform well at PvE and PvP, and have the best stats and protection in Open World. The OP's heart might be in the right place, and I'd be interested in play testing some of it, but to remove gear from PvP and force all PvPers to Raid if they ever want to have decent gear? No thanks.

[Hizoka]

In OW pvp (if there's any), doesn't expertise count there?

 

to the point that a drooling circus midget with 3 fingers can beat the best geared and skilled raiders out there. PvP gear is completely OP for world PvP. That is why the PvP baddies love it they can pretend they are good players because their gear makes them basically unbeatable.

[Hizoka]

Of course, and its one of the "problems".

 

In OW-PvP, even hardcore raiders get spanked around by mid-level PvPers because of the severe bonus/penalty created by Expertise.

 

I'm on the fence about the OPs suggestion (at least part of it). I'm not convinced that Expertise is really needed. It's purpose is to separate the gear progression of PvP and PvE. With Expertise in play, PvE'ers can't jump into Warzones and trash everyone just based on gear, and PvPers can't hang out in Warzones for a couple months and then jump right into Nightmare TFB. If you want to reach the high levels of one of them, you need to put the time in with that playstyle.

 

It's a valid goal.

 

That said, gear progression in PvP isn't really all that popular. Loads of people (me included) don't want PvP ruled by gear and how long you've been dredging comms of the floor of yet another lost warzone. Expertise was the way the progression was handled, and I'm a big fan of leveling it. At the same time, I don't know that I want it removed, because I really don't want PvE players jumping into Warzones and trashing everyone with their higher-level gear.

 

The OP wants Bolster to take care of that. That's fine. It would work. What doesn't work is the OPs suggestion to remove gear progression from PvP because it leaves hardcore PvP players with no high level gear. You're a PvPer? Then its warzones for you. You want to do the dailies? Well, go to it in your Level 55 Blues, because the OP doesn't want you to ever have higher level gear. You might eventually get some Classic or Basic gear, but you'll still be overshadowed by everyone else.

 

...unless you become a PvEer. Then you get higher level gear, perform well at PvE and PvP, and have the best stats and protection in Open World. The OP's heart might be in the right place, and I'd be interested in play testing some of it, but to remove gear from PvP and force all PvPers to Raid if they ever want to have decent gear? No thanks.

the thing is HARDCORE pvpers want PvP to be about skill not about gear. That is why i suggest making grat looking empty shells as the reward for PvPing, then PvPers have a unique look that can only be gained though PvP.

 

Bolters should make it that regardless of your gear you are equal in PvP so that raiders have 0 advantage in warzones. The way it sits now however is that when doing dailies or any PvE activity outside of raiding PvPers have the advantage in any world combat to the point that are basically unbeatable.

 

Whoever thought giving someone 60% damage boost and 35% damage reductions against players was a good idea should of been fired on the spot... but i'm betting that was an EA higher not a bioware higher.

 

PvP should be about who is the better player, not who has drooled in the corner of a warzone longer. As it sits there is no skill in PvP its gear based and time based, the worst PvP in the game can still get the best PvP gear possible with time.

[SavingPrincess]

Answer:

- PVP becomes "Game" instead of "Grind" (i.e. everyone is equal), various comm's are rewarded based on level and performance or make current PVP gear a PvE "2.5 tier" kind of set.

- Remove expertise as a stat

 

Simpler Answer:

- Make a new PVP option that's "Legends" based where you pick your character from a list of iconic characters (i.e. Satele Shan, Darth Malgus, et. al.) that all have a balance of heals and DPS and various powers so people have the option to play non-gear based PVP. Rewards can include comms, unique oranges and even (gasp!) Cartel Coins.

[Pistols]

the same way PvEers EARN their mods... Right now no-one EARNS PvP gear... it is simply handed to them for queuing for a warzone.. win lose bad or good you will get gear just for showing up and pretending you are doing something.

 

I've earned my PvP gear through time spent via WZ's played, spent countless hours doing WZ's to optimize my gear accordingly, as intended by the game mechanics. Both playstyles earn their gear, this cry-titting about "waaa I earned my gear in PvE and PvP'ers have it easy" is so abnoxious it's not even worth the effort I just gave in this reply.

 

to the point that a drooling circus midget with 3 fingers can beat the best geared and skilled raiders out there. PvP gear is completely OP for world PvP. That is why the PvP baddies love it they can pretend they are good players because their gear makes them basically unbeatable.

 

I'm sorry you as as PvE'er, are suddenly crying because you got flattened by someone in (wait for it...wait for it...) PvP gear in a PvP scenario. If you're running around flagged for PvP, then you accept the inherit risk that a player wearing PvP gear will wreck your sunshiney day. There is NO excuse to run around in the open world flagged up and then cry about expertise after getting drilled by a player prepared. That's your own fault, not the systems. Get a clue please, but it sounds like PvP is not your side of fries.

 

/carry on

[dakisback]

No.

It takes 2 days to get PVP gear.

Edited May 28, 2013 by dakisback

[Hizoka]

I've earned my PvP gear through time spent via WZ's played, spent countless hours doing WZ's to optimize my gear accordingly, as intended by the game mechanics. Both playstyles earn their gear, this cry-titting about "waaa I earned my gear in PvE and PvP'ers have it easy" is so abnoxious it's not even worth the effort I just gave in this reply.

 

 

 

I'm sorry you as as PvE'er, are suddenly crying because you got flattened by someone in (wait for it...wait for it...) PvP gear in a PvP scenario. If you're running around flagged for PvP, then you accept the inherit risk that a player wearing PvP gear will wreck your sunshiney day. There is NO excuse to run around in the open world flagged up and then cry about expertise after getting drilled by a player prepared. That's your own fault, not the systems. Get a clue please, but it sounds like PvP is not your side of fries.

 

/carry on

you did not EARN your gear... you mearly queued for warzons until it was handed to you though time. IN the current game you can never kill anyone and never win a warzone and still get rewards for it. That is not earning anything that is simply being given gear for showing up.

 

If you raid you cannot go up to a boss die all night long and never kill anything and come out with gear, in PvP you can do just that.

 

PvP gear is a joke, and it is the only thing in game that the more you get the worse of a player you are able to be, that is why so many bad players gravitate to it, you don't have to be good to get it. If PvP was 100% skill based in warzones the quality of player would go up simply because you would play to win, not play to try an get comms. The sheer fact that losing can give you nearly as many comms as winning is a massive problem.

 

PvP gear is not earned its simply handed out for showing up. BTW some servers are PvP servers so you are flagged all the time, some people enjoy world PvP, however PvP gear makes world PvP stupid as a person in welfare PvP gear is invincable when fighting someone without it. You should never have to get PvP gear in order to do PvE dailies. Good players know this childhish bad players who use PvP gear as a crutch are the ones who don't get it.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Hizoka

[Pistols]

you did not EARN your gear... you mearly queued for warzons until it was handed to you though time. IN the current game you can never kill anyone and never win a warzone and still get rewards for it. That is not earning anything that is simply being given gear for showing up.

 

If you raid you cannot go up to a boss die all night long and never kill anything and come out with gear, in PvP you can do just that.

 

PvP gear is a joke, and it is the only thing in game that the more you get the worse of a player you are able to be, that is why so many bad players gravitate to it, you don't have to be good to get it. If PvP was 100% skill based in warzones the quality of player would go up simply because you would play to win, not play to try an get comms. The sheer fact that losing can give you nearly as many comms as winning is a massive problem.

 

PvP gear is not earned its simply handed out for showing up. BTW some servers are PvP servers so you are flagged all the time, some people enjoy world PvP, however PvP gear makes world PvP stupid as a person in welfare PvP gear is invincable when fighting someone without it. You should never have to get PvP gear in order to do PvE dailies. Good players know this childhish bad players who use PvP gear as a crutch are the ones who don't get it.

 

Lol

[dakisback]

you did not EARN your gear... you mearly queued for warzons until it was handed to you though time. IN the current game you can never kill anyone and never win a warzone and still get rewards for it. That is not earning anything that is simply being given gear for showing up.

 

If you raid you cannot go up to a boss die all night long and never kill anything and come out with gear, in PvP you can do just that.

 

PvP gear is a joke, and it is the only thing in game that the more you get the worse of a player you are able to be, that is why so many bad players gravitate to it, you don't have to be good to get it. If PvP was 100% skill based in warzones the quality of player would go up simply because you would play to win, not play to try an get comms. The sheer fact that losing can give you nearly as many comms as winning is a massive problem.

 

PvP gear is not earned its simply handed out for showing up. BTW some servers are PvP servers so you are flagged all the time, some people enjoy world PvP, however PvP gear makes world PvP stupid as a person in welfare PvP gear is invincable when fighting someone without it. You should never have to get PvP gear in order to do PvE dailies. Good players know this childhish bad players who use PvP gear as a crutch are the ones who don't get it.

 

You're funny.

You're probably one of those players who plays deathmatch in huttball and complain about losing because your gear sucked.

 

Seriously what is wrong with PVP gear? It takes a couple days to get and your PVE gear is already bolstered enough that you won't suck if you are using it.

[Hizoka]

You're funny.

You're probably one of those players who plays deathmatch in huttball and complain about losing because your gear sucked.

 

Seriously what is wrong with PVP gear? It takes a couple days to get and your PVE gear is already bolstered enough that you won't suck if you are using it.

 

you are missing the point... but even if the point was explained to you, you would still not be able to grasp it.

[dakisback]

you are missing the point... but even if the point was explained to you, you would still not be able to grasp it.

 

My point is a geared player that lacks skill can easily be overcome by a skilled player with a lack of gear. You just need to try harder.

 

Sure this is flawed, but we need an incentive to PVP and gear is that incentive. If you remove it there will be no point.

[kodrac]

Sure this is flawed, but we need an incentive to PVP and gear is that incentive. If you remove it there will be no point.

 

Where have the days gone when the incentive to pvp was the pvp itself?

 

The "gimme shiny now' crowd has ruined it for the rest of us.

Edited May 29, 2013 by kodrac

[Hizoka]

My point is a geared player that lacks skill can easily be overcome by a skilled player with a lack of gear. You just need to try harder.

 

Sure this is flawed, but we need an incentive to PVP and gear is that incentive. If you remove it there will be no point.

 

if you think skill will overcome a 60% damage increase and 35% damage intake decrease then you are really a bad PvPer or just ignorant.

[Malastare]

the thing is HARDCORE pvpers want PvP to be about skill not about gear.

 

That's what I want, and I'm not even HARDCORE.

 

That is why i suggest making grat looking empty shells as the reward for PvPing, then PvPers have a unique look that can only be gained though PvP.

 

And fill them with Level 50 mods so they can be steamrolled by Raiders.

 

Right? That's what you're suggesting? That PvP gets you shells and nothing else. If you want the mods to go with them, then you have to join Raids. That is, essentially, removing any sort of elder-game-PvP and turning it into a mini-game.

 

The way it sits now however is that when doing dailies or any PvE activity outside of raiding PvPers have the advantage in any world combat to the point that are basically unbeatable.

 

This is false. A top-of-the-level raider is going to be facing a huge obstacle in a rated-PvP-geared player. And they should. One player is optimized for fighting bosses, and the other is optimized for killing other players. Part of Open World PvP is the fact that some people are going to be frightening. They should be frightening.

 

But it's not insurmountable. Even at Level 49 (a year ago), I was able to challenge Level 50 players in Battlemaster gear. Could I reliably win: Of course not. I think I battled one guy to a mutual retreat. But it's not a curb stomping. If you're in top-level PvE gear and you face off against someone of equal skill in top-level PvP gear, things won't go well for you. Again: They shouldn't. If you have more skill than them, or if you know how to exploit the strengths of your class or the weakness of theirs, the fight is not a foregone conclusion.

 

At the same time, players in PvE gear can do a lot of things that those in PvP gear can't. Sure, those PvPers have a sick advantage to damage against players, but against mobs.... they just have mediocre gear. Enough for Dailies, but not enough to jump into the middle of raiding. They need another set of gear for that... much like how the raiders would need a different set of gear to be really effective at high level warzones.

 

PvP should be about who is the better player, not who has drooled in the corner of a warzone longer.

 

Agreed. But you still refuse to answer the simple question: Where will the PvP players get the mods to put in their shells? Are you going to force them to run raids, essentially sending the message: "There is only PvE, PvP is a mini-game, and anyone who wastes time on it deserves to be beaten in Open World PvP"

 

As it sits there is no skill in PvP its gear based and time based, the worst PvP in the game can still get the best PvP gear possible with time.

 

You haven't played PvP recently have you? In 10-34, and 35-54, there essentially is no Expertise and gear is essentially flat. You're already playing on an even field. I've seen Level 17 players totally dominate a match. In Level 55, there is a gradient as people gear up, but the difference is less than it was before with the Recruit gear. I recently brought a PvP character up to Level 55, and even with virtually no PvP gear, I was able to do well in Warzones.

 

Or... Have you been playing PvP, and you're still blaming your performance on gear. There is one other factor lots of people don't think of:

 

Raiding is a shockingly different play style than PvP.

 

I've seen a lot of raiders complain about Open World PvP (or even Warzone PvP) and say that its unfair. I've watched some of them play and noticed that some of them simply don't adjust to the different play style. PvP is much more dynamic and aggressive. Resolve matters, and good PvP players know how to manage it. DoTs might be huge in PvE, but in PvP, the ability to deliver a huge spike of damage, disappear, and hit hard again before they heal is just as deadly.

 

Again: You have part of a good idea, but if you remove gear from PvP rewards, then it just becomes a mini-game to Raids. If that's what you want, then just say it, rather than dancing around it.