ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Knockerz]

Lol

 

I can't speak for Hizoka, but I assure you there's no love in this corner. I rate my affection for that community member somewhere between a tax audit and eating broken glass.

 

You two need to kiss and make up.

[Hizoka]

I dont remember saying that. I may have though.

 

here is the quote again

 

Yes BW has said your advance class is fundamentally your class, I live with that, I play my classes, if I dont like the Ac, I reroll.

 

 

 

you admitted the ACs are the classes... so you want a new class because you are "entitled"

[PeterTLJr]

here is the quote again

 

 

 

 

 

you admitted the ACs are the classes... so you want a new class because you are "entitled"

 

I didnt admit anything. I said BW has said that they are "fundamentally" your class. I have never said that AC are classes.

"Yes BW has said your advance class is fundamentally your class, I live with that, I play my classes, if I dont like the Ac, I reroll."

Edited June 22, 2013 by PeterTLJr

[Hizoka]

I didnt admit anything. I said BW has said that they are "fundamentally" your class. I have never said that AC are classes.

"Yes BW has said your advance class is fundamentally your class, I live with that, I play my classes, if I dont like the Ac, I reroll."

 

do you know what fundamentally means?

[Ratajack]

I dont remember saying that. I may have though.

 

Allow me to refresh your memory.

 

Also they would have said by now that ACs were there own class. At one point they were, until the cartel market hit.

 

You admit that AC's were their own class, but want to claim that the addition of the CM changed that. The CM changed nothing about the classes. There was no option to purchase a "your class is no longer your class" unlock.

 

The fact the they were their own classes (by your own admission, you know this) and the devs have not retracted or contradicted that stance add up to they are still their own class.

[PeterTLJr]

Allow me to refresh your memory.

 

 

 

You admit that AC's were their own class, but want to claim that the addition of the CM changed that. The CM changed nothing about the classes. There was no option to purchase a "your class is no longer your class" unlock.

 

The fact the they were their own classes (by your own admission, you know this) and the devs have not retracted or contradicted that stance add up to they are still their own class.

 

Read the post people. I said that at one point BW said that ACs were there own classes, but that could change now that the cartel market hit.

[Ratajack]

Read the post people. I said that at one point BW said that ACs were there own classes, but that could change now that the cartel market hit.

 

You can try to weasel out all you want, but here is the quote again.

 

Also they would have said by now that ACs were there own class. At one point they were, until the cartel market hit.

 

Notice, NOWHERE in that quote do the letters BW appear, let alone the phrase Bw said that they were their own classes. Nor did you say in that quote that " that could change now that the cartel market hit".

 

You very clearly said that "At one point they were" their own classes, a clear admission that AC's were their own class. The devs have not contradicted their earlier statement regarding AC's being fundamentally different classes, despite the ambiguous statement about AC changes likely happening at some undetermined point in the future.

 

You also stated that the cartel market changed Ac's being their own class. It did not, it has not, and I very seriously doubt that it will change AC's being their own class. They may offer class changes in the CM to make a quick buck at the cost of the subs of those that will leave this game if they allow class changes, but that will not change the fact that AC's are different classes.

 

 

I am not twisting your words, but I AM holding you to them.

[PeterTLJr]

You can try to weasel out all you want, but here is the quote again.

 

 

 

Notice, NOWHERE in that quote do the letters BW appear, let alone the phrase Bw said that they were their own classes. Nor did you say in that quote that " that could change now that the cartel market hit".

 

You very clearly said that "At one point they were" their own classes, a clear admission that AC's were their own class. The devs have not contradicted their earlier statement regarding AC's being fundamentally different classes, despite the ambiguous statement about AC changes likely happening at some undetermined point in the future.

 

You also stated that the cartel market changed Ac's being their own class. It did not, it has not, and I very seriously doubt that it will change AC's being their own class. They may offer class changes in the CM to make a quick buck at the cost of the subs of those that will leave this game if they allow class changes, but that will not change the fact that AC's are different classes.

 

 

I am not twisting your words, but I AM holding you to them.

 

Read the entire paragraph, its about BW and the CM. At the beginning I said that BW has said that ACs were there own classes but now that the CM is here that will probably change.

Edited June 22, 2013 by PeterTLJr

[Hizoka]

Read the entire paragraph, its about BW and the CM. At the beginning I said that BW has said that ACs were there own classes but now that the CM is here that will probably change.

 

they never said that.... you are just trying to make it sound like you view is valid when it is not. They have NEVER said anything about classes in regard to the CM EVER.

[PeterTLJr]

they never said that.... you are just trying to make it sound like you view is valid when it is not. They have NEVER said anything about classes in regard to the CM EVER.

 

As stated, will probably change.

[branmakmuffin]

As stated, will probably change.

Isn't it odd (and a bit amusing) how angry those two get over this issue?

[PeterTLJr]

Isn't it odd (and a bit amusing) how angry those two get over this issue?

 

They know this feature will probably be put in, they are just attention seekers and im a fool for giving them it.

[Hizoka]

As stated, will probably change.

 

so you admit you are simply making your view up as you go???

 

you claim that because of the CM they might add in pay to win changes like paying for max level classes???? Even though they have said multiple times they will not make the CM pay to win, which means skiping content and giving out high level gear for money.

[TridusSWTOR]

He's not trying to impose his own rules on others, he's asking for the existing rules to be maintained.

 

I agree, QoL changes can be excellent. Sprint from level 1, Speeders at level 1 with a legacy unlock, Rocket Boost, HK-51 unlock, +500 legacy presence unlock, all of these things make it easier to level a character.

 

But wouldn't you say that, "things that make it easier to level" and "things that eliminate the need to level at all" are vastly different types of change?

 

I would agree but the person is still leveling the character they want to AC switch. I mean the leveling legwork is already complete, that's what doesn't make sense at all.

[MajikMyst]

In the end Majik, this is what I think you are saying, after leaning out all the diatribe....

 

1) AC choice is meaningful enough, there is no need to make any statements, changes to the game or the like.

2) AC is a class. Bioware has certainly STRONGLY INFERRED this on more than one occasion. They have not said anything to the contrary to date.

3) There is no reasonable reason to allow AC change. It is contrary to the original decision Bioware made to remove the option in Beta. That decision was made for valid reasons that remain valid today.

If I am wrong, let me know.

 

They are all certainly reasonable viewpoints and you are entitled to them...though I may not completely agree, I think we agree mostly on the important points.

 

The real contention between us is of course my desire to have them "put this to bed", so to speak and the idea that I see ACs as being different to be considered classes, where you see them as clear and concise classes with no doubt.

 

You are wrong.. Bioware has said it and just because you didn't read it or hear doesn't mean it didn't happen.. The beta forums and the original launch forums no longer exist.. The forums we have no were put a couple days after launch.. Pretty much right after early release was over and those people could no longer post to forum..

 

So seriously.. Your views around here don't dictate reality.. Your AC is your class.. That is fact.. Bioware said it.. Repeatedly.. Sorry you missed it..

 

Why don't you not worry about my views and start answering some of my questions..

 

Name a single reason as to why AC swapping would make the game better for all involved and will not cost Bioware money..

 

Explain to all of us why rolling a new character doesn't accomplish the same thing?? Do not use reasons that can be turned into being lazy.. No reasons that involve easier or more convenient..

 

No the real contention here is your desire to ignore what already has been said that a number of people in this thread have confirmed.. As well as confirmed in other threads.. The contention here is your desire for everyone to play your rules and live by your reality...

 

As I have said before.. Whether or not you feel an AC is a class is irrelevant.. It is of no consequence to the discussion of AC swapping.. As I said, people make that argument in attempt to devalue the AC and claim it isn't a class.. So they can at least not be seen asking for a class change.. You can debate about it all you want.. It doesn't change the reality here.. Your AC is your class.. Bioware has stated this repeatedly.. Which in itself is irrelevant.. The game is all we need.. What the game says is paramount to this issue.. That is all anyone needs to hear or read.. What the game says...

 

By the way.. Grats for knowing about the orange dot.. It was fixed in the build they put out on Dec. 1st, 2011.. Hence the date in my sig.. If you came just before or after that point.. Unless you searched for it, you may not have seen the quotes and statements by Bioware.. The issue over the AC happened in late to mid August to mid to late September.. Long before you got in the beta I am thinking.. As I said.. You would have had to search for it.. I don't think they reset the forums then.. They reset the forums at least 3 times in between builds.. Said they would be saved for future study.. I don't remember exactly when the last time they did was.. I know when we were able to keep our characters in the next build, the forums didn't change..

Edited June 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Hizoka]

I would agree but the person is still leveling the character they want to AC switch. I mean the leveling legwork is already complete, that's what doesn't make sense at all.

 

because leveling a vanguard is a different class then leveling a commando. Asking for a max level toon for money is pay to win.

 

EAware has said multiple time they know they will kill the game if they use the CM as a means for pay to win. Even someone with basic reasoning skills can see where that leads.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Hizoka

[TridusSWTOR]

Where did I say was against any kind of change? Where did you see me oppose allowing race changes? Where did you see me oppose allowing character re-customization? Where dd you see me oppose speeder training at level 10? Where did you see me oppose sprint at level 1? Where did you see me oppose double XP weekends? Where did you see me oppose

 

 

I AM against allowing class changes. You want to change your class. Does the fact that I oppose what you want make me "against change"?

 

You must have missed the part of my post in which I stated there were a few suggestions I would consider reasonable compromises. Gee, I guess that must mean I'm open minded enough to at least consider compromise. Are you?

 

I already stated I was willing to agree to a price tag for AC changes. The flat out ban of AC changing makes zero sense. If you are so pro-change then this would be NOTHING, since changing a race is the exact same thing you are complaining about.

 

Why should people be able to change their race when they haven't leveled one to 50?? omg hand-outs!!

 

So how is changing a race and AC change even different in those terms? They both required the work to be put in in order to receive the reward.

[MajikMyst]

Lose the attitude, especially towards this gentleman, he has stated multiple times his views towards this, and none of them have been strongly for AC changes.

 

Practice what you preach.. You have insulted people in this thread repeatedly.. I have insulted nobody.. Including lord..

 

My issue with him is simply his refusal to acknowledge reality as viewed by others.. He demands that we live by the reality viewed by him.. I take issue with that..

[Hizoka]

I already stated I was willing to agree to a price tag for AC changes. The flat out ban of AC changing makes zero sense. If you are so pro-change then this would be NOTHING, since changing a race is the exact same thing you are complaining about.

 

Why should people be able to change their race when they haven't leveled one to 50?? omg hand-outs!!

 

So how is changing a race and AC change even different in those terms? They both required the work to be put in in order to receive the reward.

 

if you do not understand the difference in a cosmetic change and the changing of a class then you do not belong in any kind of discussion.

[Knockerz]

if you do not understand the difference in a cosmetic change and the changing of a class then you do not belong in any kind of discussion.

 

I agree, race is purely cosmetic where an advance class change is completely different. Not all specs and classes are created equal. Personally, if you leveled not so viable class/spec you should be force to level again like if you leveled a commando dps for pvp, but instead want a vanguard cause they are more viable. You should be force to level again and to gain that advantage. If you don't want to level a trooper again well that's though. Most players will not tolerate a class change without you having to level that class.

 

As I mention before the only game I know that allow class change require you to level the class you change into. Thus, if you were to switch from commando to vanguard, your vanguard would need to be leveled from 1-55. There is no free lunch.

[PeterTLJr]

Practice what you preach.. You have insulted people in this thread repeatedly.. I have insulted nobody.. Including lord..

 

My issue with him is simply his refusal to acknowledge reality as viewed by others.. He demands that we live by the reality viewed by him.. I take issue with that..

 

I treat people how they treat me, nothing more

Edited June 22, 2013 by PeterTLJr

[Ratajack]

I already stated I was willing to agree to a price tag for AC changes. The flat out ban of AC changing makes zero sense. If you are so pro-change then this would be NOTHING, since changing a race is the exact same thing you are complaining about.

 

Why should people be able to change their race when they haven't leveled one to 50?? omg hand-outs!!

 

So how is changing a race and AC change even different in those terms? They both required the work to be put in in order to receive the reward.

 

Race changes are COSMETIC only, not a change of fundamental mechanics. That is the difference.

[branmakmuffin]

I treat people how they treat me, nothing more

That guy is a major pot calling kettles black when he complains about others insulting people.

 

if you do not understand the difference in a cosmetic change and the changing of a class then you do not belong in any kind of discussion.

There you go with that anger again. Do you receive nourishment from AC swap being disallowed, because nothing else can explain your mindless, fanatical vehemence?

Edited June 22, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Hizoka]

That guy is a major pot calling kettles black when he complains about others insulting people.

 

 

There you go with that anger again. Do you receive nourishment from AC swap being disallowed, because nothing else can explain your mindless, fanatical vehemence?

 

what reason is there to give someone a max level class for no reason other then childish want???

 

it is pay to win and pay to win is how you kill an MMO

[LordArtemis]

You are wrong.. Bioware has said it and just because you didn't read it or hear doesn't mean it didn't happen.. The beta forums and the original launch forums no longer exist.. The forums we have no were put a couple days after launch.. Pretty much right after early release was over and those people could no longer post to forum..

 

......

 

Wayback machine.

 

So seriously.. Your views around here don't dictate reality.. Your AC is your class.. That is fact.. Bioware said it.. Repeatedly.. Sorry you missed it..

 

No. My posting of the exact quote, the quote that you posted incorrectly and then LINKED to an incorrect post actually dictates facts as opposed to fallacy.

 

Orange is a color and a fruit. That is a fact. Oranges taste good. That is an opinion. Learn the difference.

 

Why don't you not worry about my views and start answering some of my questions..

 

Name a single reason as to why AC swapping would make the game better for all involved and will not cost Bioware money..

 

Why are you asking me this?

 

....this is a question you want to ask of someone that SUPPORTS AC change.

 

I'm not going to allow you to shoehorn me into the pro AC change group because your threatened by my opinion.

 

Explain to all of us why rolling a new character doesn't accomplish the same thing?? Do not use reasons that can be turned into being lazy.. No reasons that involve easier or more convenient..

 

...is there a reason why I should answer this as well?

 

Ask someone who wants AC change.

 

No the real contention here is your desire to ignore what already has been said that a number of people in this thread have confirmed.. As well as confirmed in other threads.. The contention here is your desire for everyone to play your rules and live by your reality...

 

My rules are simple.

 

Post facts.

State opinions.

Post quotes verbatim.

Be honest.

 

If you are incapable of following those simple rules you have more problems than not fitting in to what I wish folks play by. You are of course welcome to disrespect yourself as much as you want.

 

As I have said before.. Whether or not you feel an AC is a class is irrelevant..

 

See. You are capable of saying logical and factual things.

 

It is of no consequence to the discussion of AC swapping..

 

I agree. Two for two.

 

As I said, people make that argument in attempt to devalue the AC and claim it isn't a class..

 

And people make the argument it is a class to try and dissuade change. There is no difference. It is BS from both sides.

 

So they can at least not be seen asking for a class change.. You can debate about it all you want.. It doesn't change the reality here.. Your AC is your class.. Bioware has stated this repeatedly.. Which in itself is irrelevant.. The game is all we need.. What the game says is paramount to this issue.. That is all anyone needs to hear or read.. What the game says...

 

Your entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to tell people what they need to think, or what they can discuss.

 

By the way.. Grats for knowing about the orange dot.. It was fixed in the build they put out on Dec. 1st, 2011.. Hence the date in my sig.. If you came just before or after that point.. Unless you searched for it, you may not have seen the quotes and statements by Bioware.. The issue over the AC happened in late to mid August to mid to late September.. Long before you got in the beta I am thinking.. As I said.. You would have had to search for it.. I don't think they reset the forums then.. They reset the forums at least 3 times in between builds.. Said they would be saved for future study.. I don't remember exactly when the last time they did was.. I know when we were able to keep our characters in the next build, the forums didn't change..

 

...you can keep your grats.

 

This has reached epic ridiculousness Majik. We have nothing further to discuss.

Edited June 22, 2013 by LordArtemis