ETA on Advanced Class change?

[PeterTLJr]

you were not in the alpha and beta stages of the game i was. ACs have never been something that was changeable. Infact they added additional notifications that it is a 1 time choice, there is no changing it. That is why you can now even look at talent trees before you pick them.

 

They view the classes as the vanguard or the sentinel. Trooper or jedi is simply the story so they only had to make 8 stories instead of 16. They told the testers this during the beta stages while the NDA was in effect.

 

To the devs changing from a commando to a vanguard is no different then changing a commando into an assassin.

 

They even told us they made every class use a unique weapon/stance so that you could easily tell what class someone was by their weapons. IE a merc has 2 pistols a powertech has 1.

 

Its hard to take you serious when all you do is tell people what they do or dont know, or calling them names, you know its possible to make a point without being hostile or rude.

[LordArtemis]

you were not in the alpha and beta stages of the game i was. ACs have never been something that was changeable. Infact they added additional notifications that it is a 1 time choice, there is no changing it. That is why you can now even look at talent trees before you pick them.

 

They view the classes as the vanguard or the sentinel. Trooper or jedi is simply the story so they only had to make 8 stories instead of 16. They told the testers this during the beta stages while the NDA was in effect.

 

To the devs changing from a commando to a vanguard is no different then changing a commando into an assassin.

 

They even told us they made every class use a unique weapon/stance so that you could easily tell what class someone was by their weapons. IE a merc has 2 pistols a powertech has 1.

 

They did not choose to remove the option to change AC until November of 2011. Proof posted above. If you have proof to the contrary you are welcome to post it.

[PeterTLJr]

I'd also like to point out something, there has been quite a few threads around claiming people want End game Defection, and theres a lot of people on board with that. I personally dont see that being much different then AC changing. You'd be switching from one faction to the other, similar abilities, but not the same, would take time to learn, just like AC switching. Edited June 15, 2013 by PeterTLJr

[Hizoka]

I'd also like to point out something, there has been quite a few threads around claiming people want End game Defection, and theres a lot of people on board with that. I personally dont see that being much different then AC changing. You'd be switching from one faction to the other, similar abilities, but not the same, would take time to learn, just like AC switching.

 

you also do not know what "fundamental" means either...

[Ratajack]

wow... you really do not get it... you do not "cross train" in that diverse of jobs.

 

but whatever dude if you want to keep your ignorant argument alive of wanting a free max level class for nothing then go for it... you are far too stupid to argue with you have proved it over and over.

 

I appreciate your opinions, but in this case, you are addressing the wrong person. LordArtemis has been very respectful and acknowledges both sides of this debate. I also agree with him that the best compromise and the most likely to address at least most concerns on both sides of this issue is that allowing class changes should reset the character to level 10.

[PeterTLJr]

you also do not know what "fundamental" means either...

 

Your not a very happy person, are you?

[LordArtemis]

you also do not know what "fundamental" means either...

 

Do you have anything meaningful to add to the discussion other than talking about things you know nothing about and pretending to be an expert, throwing around insults and forum violations like they are candy and making baseless accusations against members based on simple assumptions that have no basis in legitimacy or logic?

 

I mean, really Hizoka....have you looked at your post history? Do you really want this to represent who you are? Do you really expect ANYONE to respect or consider your opinion when you act the way you do?

 

I've seen probably dozens of your posts go poof. I would expect that warnings followed those removals. I would also expect you are a hairs length away from a ban. it just seems to me the whole enterprise is pretty silly at best.

 

It is entertaining to watch someone iceskate uphill for a while but eventually it just becomes sad. Your post history is a train wreck Hizoka.

 

Pull yourself together. Enough with the constant ludicrous diatribe. This isn't forum PVP.

Edited June 15, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Ratajack]

Those who look at it as class changing SEEM to have a very narrow vision of this, they are so bounded by the ways of other MMOs thinking that if one game doesnt allow it, no other game should. I have used other games as examples, yes ill admit it, but it doesnt change the fact that whatever base class you pick, then whichever AC you pick after level 10, you will ALWAYS be that base class, there is no possible way that can change, however AC changing can be possible without breaking that invisible rule of no class changing that most mmos follow.

 

You can't change class without breaking that invisible line and changing from a vanguard to a commando IS changing class. You can try to spin it any way you want, but the truth is the truth.

[LordArtemis]

You can't change class without breaking that invisible line and changing from a vanguard to a commando IS changing class. You can try to spin it any way you want, but the truth is the truth.

 

That may be the case, AC may or may not be a class (I tend to think it is, at least they are different enough to see them as a class if nothing else) but that really isn't the issue IMO.

 

The issue is the impact of allowing AC change on the game. That should be the focus of our discussion IMO.

[Ratajack]

Well thats just exactly it, the devs have changed their views on ACs before, so theres no reason why they cant change it again. Yellow posts arent forever permanent, its permanent for the time being until a new yellow post saying otherwise.

 

If the devs no longer see AC's as different classes, then there would be no reason for them to change it again. Sounds to me like you know and understand that they are different classes, and the devs see them as different classes. but wish to pretend that is not the case.

[Ratajack]

And to add to that I think any reasonable person would have to admit that the new dev staff obviously looks at the game, and former "no change ever" options as being "on the table" so to speak.

 

After all, the former dev staff did state, quite clearly (evidence posted in this thread) that things like appearance change after creation, free respecs, F2P, cross class gear appearance, etc would either never happen because they were contrary to design intent or probably would never happen.

 

And yet they have. The prior dev staff was obviously very anti-option, from the "choices matter" crowd. The current dev staff does not seem to be from that crowd.

 

Once again, in the interest of fairness, you really should acknowledge that most, if not al, of the "choices matter" changes recently implemented are COSMETIC only and do not affect fundamental game play as allowing class changes would.

 

There is a world of difference in allowing cosmetic changes and allowing class changes.

[LordArtemis]

If the devs no longer see AC's as different classes, then there would be no reason for them to change it again. Sounds to me like you know and understand that they are different classes, and the devs see them as different classes. but wish to pretend that is not the case.

 

Well, I think if there was a reason to allow it, at least one they are considering, it would be similar to the original reason...to correct a mistake in AC choice. You have to first play the AC after all to find out if you are going to like it. No amount of information is likely going to tell you that.

[LordArtemis]

Once again, in the interest of fairness, you really should acknowledge that most, if not al, of the "choices matter" changes recently implemented are COSMETIC only and do not affect fundamental game play as allowing class changes would.

 

There is a world of difference in allowing cosmetic changes and allowing class changes.

 

I've conceded that before and will do so again...it is a valid point. Aside from F2P/Market, free respecs and the cooldown reductions most of the changes have been purely cosmetic with little impact overall on the game IMO.

 

And I agree. AC change is most definitely not a cosmetic or trivial change, hence my concern over allowing it.

[PeterTLJr]

That may be the case, AC may or may not be a class (I tend to think it is, at least they are different enough to see them as a class if nothing else) but that really isn't the issue IMO.

 

The issue is the impact of allowing AC change on the game. That should be the focus of our discussion IMO.

 

In all reality, the only one affected is who changes their AC. What if I change my AC and never do end game stuff, I just quest solo, how again does that affect you?

To answer about flashpoints, the risk remains the same when entering, theres always going to be that guy who takes stuff just because, they cant turn down features just because of this reason.

I see the only way it having a major impact is if they dont put restrictions on it.

[Ratajack]

Reducing people back to level 10 would cause havoc, crew skills, companion affect, losing companions, dark/lightside alignment, basically everything would be at loss as well, almost making it pointless to have the switch.

 

You could reduce the level to 10 without removing companions, dark side/light side alignment, inventory items, etc. This would allow the player to keep any items they had that could no longer be obtained in the game, and still allow that player to learn the class as they re-leveled.

 

I think they would have to do a reset on the planetary quests, but not the class quests as the class quests would affect the companions, etc. This would even have the added benefit of not making the player go through the same story line twice.

 

They could even give a passive 25% xp boost to help compensate for the loss of the class quest XP while re-leveling. The player could re-level via PVP, space missions, daily heroics, any number of ways.

 

We have given you a reasonable compromise and you don't even want to consider it? Why? Because you want an instant max level character of a different class?

[PeterTLJr]

You could reduce the level to 10 without removing companions, dark side/light side alignment, inventory items, etc. This would allow the player to keep any items they had that could no longer be obtained in the game, and still allow that player to learn the class as they re-leveled.

 

I think they would have to do a reset on the planetary quests, but not the class quests as the class quests would affect the companions, etc. This would even have the added benefit of not making the player go through the same story line twice.

 

They could even give a passive 25% xp boost to help compensate for the loss of the class quest XP while re-leveling. The player could re-level via PVP, space missions, daily heroics, any number of ways.

 

We have given you a reasonable compromise and you don't even want to consider it? Why? Because you want an instant max level character of a different class?

 

Maybe, but then again, this feature will be put in to make money. It might make some, but I dont see many people paying to go back down to level 10.

[LordArtemis]

In all reality, the only one affected is who changes their AC. What if I change my AC and never do end game stuff, I just quest solo, how again does that affect you?

To answer about flashpoints, the risk remains the same when entering, theres always going to be that guy who takes stuff just because, they cant turn down features just because of this reason.

I see the only way it having a major impact is if they dont put restrictions on it.

 

Well, what about classes that may get ignored because they fall out of favor? There is more than one class in this game that was poorly designed, and the only thing that I think keeps them alive is that players want to improve the experience of playing those classes....the AC change would perhaps give them a way to opt out, and that could cause certain classes to remain underplayed.

 

Also, wouldnt this reduce the push to reroll? Wouldn't that have a possible effect on retention?

 

Remember, all of these things are hypotheticals. I'm not saying there are not valid pros to adding the feature...im just saying there are valid cons against.

[LordArtemis]

Maybe, but then again, this feature will be put in to make money. It might make some, but I dont see many people paying to go back down to level 10.

 

I think it's fair to contend that a downlevel to 10 option would be less appealing to the masses than allowing it without a demotion...

Edited June 15, 2013 by LordArtemis

[PeterTLJr]

Well, what about classes that may get ignored because they fall out of favor? There is more than one class in this game that was poorly designed, and the only thing that I think keeps them alive is that players want to improve the experience of playing those classes....the AC change would perhaps give them a way to opt out, and that could cause certain classes to remain underplayed.

 

Also, wouldnt this reduce the push to reroll? Wouldn't that have a possible effect on retention?

 

Remember, all of these things are hypotheticals. I'm not saying there are not valid pros to adding the feature...im just saying there are valid cons against.

 

If any classes were poorly designed, thats not our fault for wanting out of them, thats BW/EAs fault for not fixing them.

Rerolling...I dont see many people walking around with the same class for different AC, they usually just do the mirror of it on the other side, so it ultimately comes down to, would bioware/ea rather receive money from AC switching, or risk people making alts of the same class in hopes of them putting money into it?

[Ratajack]

I'd also like to point out something, there has been quite a few threads around claiming people want End game Defection, and theres a lot of people on board with that. I personally dont see that being much different then AC changing. You'd be switching from one faction to the other, similar abilities, but not the same, would take time to learn, just like AC switching.

 

I'm not going to go into whether or not allowing faction change would be a good thing or a bad thing, but you are wrong in your thinking about it taking time to learn the "new class"

 

The devs refer to them as "mirror classes" for a reason. Each faction has one of each class, with the same skills named differently with different animations. A sage and a sorcerer use the same abilities with different names and different animations. Changing from a sage to a sorcerer would change your animations and the names of your spells, but the effects of those spells would still be the same, the rotations would still be the same and the game play would still be the same. This is unlike switching from a sage to a shadow and losing skills and gaining new skills that have entirely different effects.

[PeterTLJr]

I think it's fair to contend that a downlevel to 10 option would be less appealing to the masses than allowing it without a demotion...

 

If they added in a feature like this, I dont think they would want it to not be appealing, theyd want people to do it so they could make money, but also make it so it doesnt make some people mad.

[LordArtemis]

If they added in a feature like this, I dont think they would want it to not be appealing, theyd want people to do it so they could make money, but also make it so it doesnt make some people mad.

 

...which would be one of the reasons I think, if it is to be allowed, a restriction of level 10 to 15 with a demotion would be the best choice overall. Not as appealing to the pro folks, but not as difficult to swallow for the anti folks.

 

Naturally there will be diehard folks on both sides that will not agree less than full AC change ability at any level or never allowing the change at all.

[Ratajack]

Well, I think if there was a reason to allow it, at least one they are considering, it would be similar to the original reason...to correct a mistake in AC choice. You have to first play the AC after all to find out if you are going to like it. No amount of information is likely going to tell you that.

 

Granted, but I do not think that poster was referring to devs possible change of mind regarding allowing class changes. I think when that poster referred to the devs possibly changing their minds again, he was referencing their stance that the different AC's are different classes. That is what I was referencing. If the devs had changed their minds, as that poster claims, about the different AC's being different classes, then there would be no need for them to change their minds again on that subject.

[LordArtemis]

Granted, but I do not think that poster was referring to devs possible change of mind regarding allowing class changes. I think when that poster referred to the devs possibly changing their minds again, he was referencing their stance that the different AC's are different classes. That is what I was referencing. If the devs had changed their minds, as that poster claims, about the different AC's being different classes, then there would be no need for them to change their minds again on that subject.

 

Ah, I see. My mistake.

[Hizoka]

In all reality, the only one affected is who changes their AC.

you have been told in no less then 6 different posts in 2 different threads that it does not only effect you. This is just another example of you just ignoring what you do not want to hear.