ETA on Advanced Class change?

[branmakmuffin]

The devs have said they are different classes, or did you miss the multiple times the devs own statement was quoted. A statement and position, I might add, that the devs have remained steadfast about and from which they have never wavered since they made the determination that the AC's were different classes during BETA.

They are clearly not totally different classes, because they share the same set of base class skills.

[PeterTLJr]

They are clearly not totally different classes, because they share the same set of base class skills.

 

nailed it

[branmakmuffin]

nailed it

I won't take credit for "nailing it." I think others have mentioned it before. Maybe even you yourself mentioned it.

 

Edited June 11, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[tiennen]

You guys are still arguing about this? Its be like.....weeks.

 

I still have no idea how having the ability to change your AC would affect ANYONE else's gameplay negatively.

 

It won't. It will only affect you negatively if you have a massive pineapple stuck up somewhere where the sun don't shine. There is no one forcing you to change your AC. And if someone changed their AC, unless they told you you wouldn't know either.

[Ratajack]

unless im wrong, which i might be, but isnt the beginning of the thread showing a dev saying that there has been talks about advance class switching and will most likely happen?

 

You are correct and there was s statement that AC changing would "likely happen" at some undetermined point in the future although there has not been a peep from the devs about this since. That statement, however, did NOT contradict in any way their statement that AC's are different classes. They have remained steadfast about AC's being different classes.

 

We have yet to hear anything further about AC changes coming, so that statement about AC changing "likely" happening may have been an honest statement that they plan to implement it, although I would have expected to hear something further about it, especially given the number of threads for people asking to change class.

 

It may also have been a "soft no" regarding AC changes. They may have made that statement in order to appease those wishing to change class by making it appear that AC changes are coming, while at the same time keeping to their earlier stance of not allowing AC changes.

 

Which is the correct meaning of that statement? Only the devs know.

[branmakmuffin]

You guys are still arguing about this?

I paid my 5 pounds.

 

It won't. It will only affect you negatively if you have a massive pineapple stuck up somewhere where the sun don't shine. There is no one forcing you to change your AC. And if someone changed their AC, unless they told you you wouldn't know either.

Good one.

Edited June 11, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[tiennen]

You asked. I'll answer, although I know that you will dismiss it out of hand because it does not mesh with your views.

 

Hypothetically, I play a marauder. I get grouped with a juggernaut tank. If a medium armor strength piece drops, by social convention, it should default to me. If they allow class changes, now I have to compete with that juggernaut who claims it is for his character because he may change class or is planning to change class and needs to build his gear set. Is that enough of an affect for you?

 

And, yes, shame on me for not catching and correcting your grammatical error.

 

The only time this would matter would be if the armor piece had no modification slots.

 

And as far as i know, there are VERY few items that drop in Operations/Flashpoints that don't have modification slots that are actually upgrades for anyone.

 

In other words, that marauder is just as likely to be competeing with the Juggernaut CURRENTLY as they would be in the future when AC changes are implemented, because it is not about the armor TYPE, but about the stats on that piece of armor's mods. There are plenty of armor _shells_ out there.

[Ratajack]

armor doesnt decide a class. why is armor even a factor the only time armor will affect anybody is for the warrior/knight class, and theres an easy solution, if a medium piece drops and your on your heavy armor guy, you cant hit need, and if your on your medium armor guy, cant need on heavy

 

Obviously you have not seen the massive threads regarding loot rules and "social convention" If a marauder rolled on juggernaut gear or a juggernaut rolled on marauder gear, there would be such loud cries of "ninja" you would be able to hear them from miles away. The same would apply if the commando rolled on that tanking chest piece with aim over the vanguard tank, or any of the other classes, since the different classes may use the same primary stat, but they do not use the same secondary stats.

[Ratajack]

your ABSOLUTELY right, the devs have said that in the past but that doesnt mean it can be changed now.

 

The fact that it can be changed now doesn't mean that it SHOULD be changed. The very fact that they have NOT changed it, nor have they given any indication that will change their stance that AC's a different classes says volumes. You'd think 80+ pages would have had a yellow post somewhere if their stance that AC's were different classes had been changed or if they actually intended to offer class changes.

[Ratajack]

They are clearly not totally different classes, because they share the same set of base class skills.

 

Can a shadow heal? Can a sage stealth?

 

Can a commando taunt? Can a vanguard heal?

 

 

A shared set of skills, most of which are not even used by both classes does not in any way make them the same class.

[branmakmuffin]

Hypothetically, I play a marauder. I get grouped with a juggernaut tank. If a medium armor strength piece drops, by social convention, it should default to me. If they allow class changes, now I have to compete with that juggernaut who claims it is for his character because he may change class or is planning to change class and needs to build his gear set. Is that enough of an affect for you?

How is that any different from people ":needing" gear for a companion? The answer from most people in both situations is the same: if it's not for your current character, don't "need" it. No one's gonna accept "I might need it sometime in the future should I decide to change ACs" any more than "I need it for my companion." If someone abuses "need" for whatever reason, they'll suffer whatever consequences there are to suffer.

 

So no, that's not only not enough of an effect (how ironic that you make a comment about my typo being bad grammar, then make an actual grammar mistake yourself), it's nothing at all.

[Ratajack]

The only time this would matter would be if the armor piece had no modification slots.

 

And as far as i know, there are VERY few items that drop in Operations/Flashpoints that don't have modification slots that are actually upgrades for anyone.

 

In other words, that marauder is just as likely to be competeing with the Juggernaut CURRENTLY as they would be in the future when AC changes are implemented, because it is not about the armor TYPE, but about the stats on that piece of armor's mods. There are plenty of armor _shells_ out there.

 

Try taking that heavy armor piece from the juggernaut tank. Let me know how that works out for you.

[tiennen]

Obviously you have not seen the massive threads regarding loot rules and "social convention" If a marauder rolled on juggernaut gear or a juggernaut rolled on marauder gear, there would be such loud cries of "ninja" you would be able to hear them from miles away. The same would apply if the commando rolled on that tanking chest piece with aim over the vanguard tank, or any of the other classes, since the different classes may use the same primary stat, but they do not use the same secondary stats.

 

A dps Vanguard and a dps Commando use the same secondary stats.

 

 

A dps Juggernaut and a dps Marauder (no other kind) use the same secondary stats, but have different armor types.

 

You see, what you are suggesting would be considered "ninjaing" because the secondary stats are different, but currently a dps Juggernaut might need on Marauder gear, because they use the same stats. This is all while having different armor types AND a different Advanced class.

 

Do you see what I'm trying to say? I could keep explaining it with more examples, but the post would just turn into a giant wall of text.

 

Try taking that heavy armor piece from the juggernaut tank. Let me know how that works out for you.

 

A Marauder would have no reason to need on tanking secondary stats.

 

Now, a Marauder might need on a piece of DPS heavy armor with strength.

 

I think my post just above explains it.

Edited June 11, 2013 by tiennen

[Ratajack]

How is that any different from people ":needing" gear for a companion? The answer from most people in both situations is the same: if it's not for your current character, don't "need" it. No one's gonna accept "I might need it sometime in the future should I decide to change ACs" any more than "I need it for my companion." If someone abuses "need" for whatever reason, they'll suffer whatever consequences there are to suffer.

 

So no, that's not only not enough of an effect (how ironic that you make a comment about my typo being bad grammar, then make an actual grammar mistake yourself), it's nothing at all.

 

 

But you are neglecting the fact that that player IS rolling for their current character, unless you are planning to redefine loot rules as well as class distinctions.

[branmakmuffin]

Can a shadow heal? Can a sage stealth? Can a commando taunt? Can a vanguard heal?

You seem to think that highlighting the differences in advanced classes is some kind of counter to the fact that advanced class pairs share the same base class skills, which is all I said.

 

A shared set of skills, most of which are not even used by both classes does not in any way make them the same class.

It makes them advanced classes of the same base class.

[Ratajack]

A dps Vanguard and a dps Commando use the same secondary stats.

 

 

A dps Juggernaut and a dps Marauder (no other kind) use the same secondary stats, but have different armor types.

 

You see, what you are suggesting would be considered "ninjaing" because the secondary stats are different, but currently a dps Juggernaut might need on Marauder gear, because they use the same stats. This is all while having different armor types AND a different Advanced class.

 

Do you see what I'm trying to say? I could keep explaining it with more examples, but the post would just turn into a giant wall of text.

 

 

 

A Marauder would have no reason to need on tanking secondary stats.

 

Now, a Marauder might need on a piece of DPS heavy armor with strength.

 

I think my post just above explains it.

 

 

If they allow class changes, that marauder would most certainly have a reason to roll. After all, he can change c lass and be a tank, and he is not rolling for his companion, but for his CURRENT CHARACTER.

[tiennen]

But you are neglecting the fact that that player IS rolling for their current character, unless you are planning to redefine loot rules as well as class distinctions.

 

No, they are not rolling for their character IN THE STATE IT CURRENTLY IS IN, they are rolling for their character IN ITS FUTURE STATE, which is not acceptable.

 

 

If they allow class changes, that marauder would most certainly have a reason to roll. After all, he can change c lass and be a tank, and he is not rolling for his companion, but for his CURRENT CHARACTER.

 

see above. I don't think you understand what we mean by CURRENT CHARACTER. -- Think about the loot rules surrounding dual-spec. Basically, if you enter the instance as ONE ROLE, or ONE CLASS, that is how you should roll for loot, all other state/specs/classes that your character COULD be are considered "offspec" rolls, and should take a back seat to anyone's "mainspec" rolls.

Edited June 11, 2013 by tiennen

[branmakmuffin]

But you are neglecting the fact that that player IS rolling for their current character, unless you are planning to redefine loot rules as well as class distinctions.

If the current character is a Marauder, then rolling on heavy armor is not rolling for their current character. Their current character cannot wear heavy armor.

 

You are really stretching it now. No "changes in loot rules" required. Is it for your current character or isn't it? Can your current character wear heavy armor or can't it? If current character is a Juggernaut and there's a Marauder in the party, no one is going to accept "I might change to a Marauder" as justification for "needing" STR-based medium armor.

[Ratajack]

You seem to think that highlighting the differences in advanced classes is some kind of counter to the fact that advanced class pairs share the same base class skills, which is all I said.

 

 

It makes them advanced classes of the same base class.

 

Please show me a screen shot of a character with the class "sith warrior-juggernaut", "sith warrior-marauder", "trooper-commando" or "trooper-vanguard".

[Ratajack]

No, they are not rolling for their character IN THE STATE IT CURRENTLY IS IN, they are rolling for their character IN ITS FUTURE STATE, which is not acceptable.

 

 

 

 

see above. I don't think you understand what we mean by CURRENT CHARACTER.

 

So, now we're changing loot rules as well as classes? Where does it end?

[branmakmuffin]

Please show me a screen shot of a character with the class "sith warrior-juggernaut", "sith warrior-marauder", "trooper-commando" or "trooper-vanguard".

Who cares? Tell me what you think your little word game proves.

 

So, now we're changing loot rules as well as classes? Where does it end?

Apparently your straw men never end.

Edited June 11, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[tiennen]

So, now we're changing loot rules as well as classes? Where does it end?

 

Who said we were changing loot rules. What I just explained is EXACTLY how loot rules currently work.

[Ratajack]

If the current character is a Marauder, then rolling on heavy armor is not rolling for their current character. Their current character cannot wear heavy armor.

 

You are really stretching it now. No "changes in loot rules" required. Is it for your current character or isn't it? Can your current character wear heavy armor or can't it? If current character is a Juggernaut and there's a Marauder in the party, no one is going to accept "I might change to a Marauder" as justification for "needing" STR-based medium armor.

 

Really? Allow me to quote another poster:

 

 

it is not about the armor TYPE, but about the stats on that piece of armor's mods. There are plenty of armor _shells_ out there.

[tiennen]

Who cares? Tell me what you think your little word game proves.

 

 

Apparently your straw men never end.

 

It proves that all of his characters have never trained any skills for their base class after level 10 apparently.

[tiennen]

Really? Allow me to quote another poster:

 

 

Thats how it CURRENTLY works, for crying out loud.

Edited June 11, 2013 by tiennen