Who feels like a valued subscriber?

[Tim-ONeil]

Of course lots of people were standing around gawking at the new shiny, including me. Heck they did that to the IG CM vendor and now it's yet another empty booth. Give it a month and see how busy it is.

 

I did look around to see who used it. Other than a few Cathar only one person really stood out due to having one of the new hairstyles and a... uh... "high visibility" dye job. I'm sure there are several people using it now. I'm sure there are several people that used it who disagree with the nickle-and-dime amounts of CC for minor cosmetics. Heck I like one of the hairstyles so much I was tempted... except I like the hair on the one human female character I have.

 

What EA gained in sales they lost in word-of-mouth advertising. Hey Joe I heard you're tired of GW2 you should come over to TOR... what? Oh sure, they just added a cosmetic feature. Uhm... by the way you have to spend real money to use it... but... but... it's only 40 cents. Seriously you can stop laughing now the game is really fun... oh, ok fine, sorry for wasting your time.

 

And if Joe is more interested in cosmetics than gameplay you'd have a point... and if he's REALLY interested in them he'd pay for them.

[MajikMyst]

The products have changed, the market is the same.

 

People are willing to pay $15/month, or more for a game if it is worth $15/month. Between 75%-90% who have subscribed to this game have decided it was not worth $15. That is the reality of TOR.

 

Had the game been better, and the retention rate been as low as 50%, there would be no CM.

 

You realize your statements are in a sense an oxymoron.. This game offers basically the same exact content as WOW.. The only things missing are the stuff that WOW has added over the years.. Years that this game has not been allowed to have..

 

The market has changed.. It wasn't because people didn't think it was worth it.. It was because people just didn't want to pay it.. What I find sad is that even now as the game has gone F2P people complain about having to pay for this or that.. Were they really stupid enough to believe the game would actually be free?? Name a single for profit game that is actually free?? Case closed..

 

As long as people have to pay for anything.. They are going to complain.. They can't stand paying $15 dollars a month, but will gladly pay $30 or more on Cartel Coins to buy packs..

 

This game would be a lot better if it never had went F2P... Then you wouldn't have to worry about buying coins to buy stuff.. Then things like the barber shop would all be credit driven.. In the ultimate wisdom/ignorance of todays MMO player.. They have complained their way into paying more to play games by demaning F2P.. Keep up the good work... I am sure Bioware loves collecting $30+ month on people buying Cartel Coins to use in the Market..

 

People demanded this.. They have only themselves to blame..

 

Do I feel valued as a subscriber?? Absolutely.. Nothing has changed for me.. Except that I get free coins each month.. Beyond that.. I have no restrictions to content.. Just as I did before the game went F2P.. Yes.. I bought the Cather and made one.. Didn't cost me a penny.. I even messed with the designer.. Again.. No cost to me..

 

The $15 dollars I spend on this is the best $15 dollars I have spent for entertainment.. I can't even go to the movies and get popcorn and a coke for $15 dollars..

Edited May 15, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Andryah]

I did look around to see who used it. Other than a few Cathar only one person really stood out due to having one of the new hairstyles and a... uh... "high visibility" dye job.

 

How would you know? Are you stalking people in game or something?

 

Many people will never use the Kiosk. Some will use it and make subtle changes that suit them but do not catch your attention.

 

Point is.. it's there for people to use if they want to. Bioware can capture and analyze everything that goes on in those Kiosks on every instance on every server and will be able to see what is popular and what is not and make adjustments accordingly. They are not relying on your fleeting assessment of Kiosk activity. Same goes for dyes, use of the collections system, etc. etc. etc.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Andryah

[CyberTronX]

Do I feel valued as a subscriber?? Absolutely.. Nothing has changed for me.. Except that I get free coins each month.. Beyond that.. I have no restrictions to content.. Just as I did before the game went F2P.. Yes.. I bought the Cather and made one.. Didn't cost me a penny.. I even messed with the designer.. Again.. No cost to me..

 

The $15 dollars I spend on this is the best $15 dollars I have spent for entertainment.. I can't even go to the movies and get popcorn and a coke for $15 dollars..

 

Thank you for a well constructed reply to the OT. Although I do feel like I technically paid for the cathar and the modifications I made with part of my sub fee, based on the fact that it does indeed cost CC, which I'm not necessarily against. On the whole I think that the kiosk, as well as fixing lolbolster, made for a _decent_ patch.

 

It can only really be improved upon in the future.

 

How would you know? Are you stalking people in game or something?

 

Many people will never use the Kiosk. Some will use it and make subtle changes that suit them but do not catch your attention.

 

To be fair, after I made my changes, I sat around the kiosk for a while and observed what changes people made, just for fun. I mostly saw the new human hairstyles being applied, some changing to cathar, one or two taking an odd combo, and almost nobody using the freaky hair colors.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CyberTronX

[Lunafox]

i see ms fanboy continues to mock people who sub and feels we have no right to express our concerns but at least bw can count on the fanboys for now but even that comes to an end sooner or later.

 

keep on telling people their complaints are not legit hide behind the fact you sound like a paid PR person for BW/EA you sure sound like it 99% of the time.

 

keep on telling people what they can say and what the can't every mmo has a ringer in forums to monitor and downplay others who disagree with your concept of bend over and take it.

 

Yup, I see they sent out the spin doctor and her cronies to try and look like voices of reason, amongst all of us angry people.

 

We have a right to be angry over this, and we have to draw the line. As a sub I bought all the offerings, and then when I go to use them, I find I have to pay real money again. It's like buying a ticket to the movies, then finding I have to pay again if I actually expect to see the movie.

[Andryah]

To be fair, after I made my changes, I sat around the kiosk for a while and observed what changes people made, just for fun. I mostly saw the new human hairstyles being applied, some changing to cathar, one or two taking an odd combo, and almost nobody using the freaky hair colors.

 

I can imagine. Based on the many months of people asking for character customization, I never got the feeling people wanted to go all wild and crazy... just have a chance to fix a body type or a hairstyle. And I'm glad the ability is now in game for folks that want it.

 

Personally, I have yet to go near the Kiosks. I simply have nothing I want to change at this point. I may buy a new hair unlock in the future for when I roll a new character, but I'll check them out on the internet first before dropping coins.. to be sure there is something inside the unlock I actually want. And I'll buy the unlock on the GTN if it's listed.

 

The collections system on the other hand.. I'm hitting that big time. It's awesome and means I can empty a lot of my vast inventory of gear and push it into the market. I feel like I finally have something worth spending CCs on and I can let go of all the sets I have been collecting and rare weapons and crystals I saved for future use.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Andryah

[Tim-ONeil]

Yup, I see they sent out the spin doctor and her cronies to try and look like voices of reason, amongst all of us angry people.

 

We have a right to be angry over this, and we have to draw the line. As a sub I bought all the offerings, and then when I go to use them, I find I have to pay real money again. It's like buying a ticket to the movies, then finding I have to pay again if I actually expect to see the movie.

 

I have no problem with people that have constructive suggestions and criticisms. I do however have a problem with the mindless moaning and false information I read here all the time from people that are irrational and angry.

 

You have the right to be upset over anything you want. It doesn't mean that it's rational, or justified but hey knock yourself out. When you post on the internet you are inviting debate.

 

A little research would have confirmed that yes you have to unlock then then pay to make the change per character. I feel badly though that you spend all of your weekly entertainment money on this. The good news is that you can play as much as you like for the rest of the week since you are a subscriber. It's still the best deal in entertainment.

[CyberTronX]

I can imagine. Based on the many months of people asking for character customization, I never got the feeling people wanted to go all wild and crazy... just have a chance to fix a body type or a hairstyle. And I'm glad the ability is now in game for folks that want it.

 

Personally, I have yet to go near the Kiosks. I simply have nothing I want to change at this point. I may buy a new hair unlock in the future for when I roll a new character, but I'll check them out on the internet first before dropping coins.. to be sure there is something inside the unlock I actually want. And I'll buy the unlock on the GTN if it's listed.

 

The collections system on the other hand.. I'm hitting that big time. It's awesome and means I can empty a lot of my vast inventory of gear and push it into the market. I feel like I finally have something worth spending CCs on and I can let go of all the sets I have been collecting and rare weapons and crystals I saved for future use.

 

I on the opposite end have yet to use the collections system. I too buy most of my CC market stuff off the GTN, and save my coins for new content and such. I'm happy about this patch because I got to:

 

1: Change a main character's name which I have HATED since launch but not wanted to recreate (note I enjoyed buying my character rename off the GTM. Made it that much cooler).

2: Unlock a new species with CC I saved up for this sole purpose.

3: Use the new human hair styles to breathe life into a toon I disliked the look of.

 

All of this I did without paying more than I do every month. If I have to plan ahead and not buy large things to have the CC to play around with little stuff, fine. If they refuse to give me a monthly grant and THEN release GAMEPLAY content for only CC, then I have a problem.

 

A little research would have confirmed that yes you have to unlock then then pay to make the change per character.

 

Yeah but most people don't want to research things. I know what EA is like, and I made sure what was gonna cost what before I went ahead and spent all my CC, and as such my experience has been more positive than most people posting in the rage threads.

 

Mindless? Not so much. The whole capslock mouth breathing thing I haven't seen here yet, and people have every right to be annoyed this feature costs real money to use. Hell, maybe the people that rage about it will actually get it to move to credits. Either way, good for me. As a feature, or forum entertainment.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CyberTronX

[KennethHoover]

TBH, not any longer.

 

And I haven't felt "valued" by this company for a long, long time.

 

They don't care. They are making money hand over fist with their Cartel lottery. They aren't going to lose sleep because some of their subscribers are unhappy.

 

That's the kind of behavior you would expect from a company that values its subscribers. BioWare pays lip service about how they value us, but the reality is often different, especially as evidenced by this last patch and the bloated empty promise that subs would get Cathar free.

 

I don't care about cat people myself. But the broken promise, on top of many other things this company has done, has shown me where they really stand.

[CyberTronX]

That's the kind of behavior you would expect from a company that values its subscribers. BioWare pays lip service about how they value us, but the reality is often different, especially as evidenced by this last patch and the bloated empty promise that subs would get Cathar free.

 

I saw nothing indicating cathar, or the kiosk, would be free. I saw "subs will get a free character rename" which I'm waiting for, and I saw a tweet from a dev confirming we'll get it very soon, but there were some bugs with the implementation so they chose to push that to later, which I am fine with.

 

I guess you can argue semantics and tell me that buying cathar with my monthly grant makes it technically free, but that's a little much.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CyberTronX

[veyl]

Absolutely not, but there are still enough positives that keep me paying.

 

pros:

I still like the story aspect of the game. (see first con about the other half of the coin for this though.)

It's still Star Wars and I like that better then Pandas.

My guild. To be honest, if they said we're going to go play -insert random mmo name here- I wouldn't hesitate to leave for good with them.

The game has come a long way since release and I still hope it continues to improve.

 

cons:

-Makeb in any other MMO was nothing more then a giant content patch. Though it only cost 10 dollars... it still cost 10 dollars that never would've happened anywhere else. It makes me worried about any future *actual* content and it makes me wonder if the next raid will cost 5 dollars to play.

-Speaking of raids: They are a joke in difficulty scale. Granted, this won't be a con for a lot of people who just play to have fun and what not and it shouldn't be. For the "average" raider, that end game should be perfectly fine and satisfying. I came from a very hardcore raiding guild over the past 8 years so playing end game here was like playing Contra with the Contra code, it's pathetic. You can clear the hardest difficulties in basic gear without ever having to min max.

-Everything asked for on the forums is now being charged at an additional price when it's implemented in game:

1) Character Creation options: If you want to see how a real character creation should be done, please head on over to a youtube of the Neverwinter Beta CC. This game (swtor) was ripped apart during beta with 20+ threads about how mundane and boring the options were (and severely lacking) People craved more sliders that covered every aspect of their character because they were going to be the main thing they saw during all of the conversation pieces. Instead , they were left with it. A year and a half later, more options are finally put into the character creation process: At a cost.

2) Cartel Market items being bound to legacy: Again, hundreds of posts, multiple threads about how something that is bought with real cash should be accessible to every character within your legacy. These are items bought with REAL MONEY but are stuck to ONE toon. Now... you can unlock them for everyone... at a cost.

3) Armor Dye: Another feature asked for since beta. The "good" colors are of course limited to the Cartel Packs while the ugly combination colors are put out for the general public. Of course if you want the good colors you can buy them.

4) barber shop: Yet another asked for feature since beta. Most games will at least allow a free hair change... this one charges you for it... in fact it charges you for everything you do to your character because each cost is per slider.

 

******Disclaimer***** for anyone saying "but you get 500 free coins every month!"... That's great, now you have to pick and choose what 1 feature you can take advantage of during that month when it should've been INCLUDED in your subscription that we are already paying 15 dollars a month for. The majority of subscribers kept this game alive until F2P went live and if *EVERYONE* quit, this game would've been shut down before f2p ever saved it. That's a fact and it's something that is not valued by EA or Bioware. Those "free coins" purpose is to get you to want to buy more and when you're out of coins, what do you do? You spend real cash. It's a business model that goes hand in hand with Casinos giving away free rooms. You get a free room? Awesome! what do you when you go to the casino? Spend well over what that room cost.

 

cons continued...

-Ranked WZ's... Still mean nothing. A year later.

-Open world PVP... Still non existant.

-No New Flashpoints in a year. Upping the health pools of a mob =/= new flashpoint.

-Optimization of this terrible engine that is progressively running worse (See customer service forum + Ability delay threads). Newsflash Bioware: It's not on our end.

-Chat bubbles and quest logs causing performance issues? I've never heard of that before. See above con.

 

and the last major con:

- The collectors Edition. Bought under the rouse that it would be regularly updated a year and a half ago it has been updated exactly 4 times. 1) Taunta pet in 1.2 (Which costs 200k btw). 2) Adaptive gear change to make the armor viable for all classes (This shouldn't even be listed...but I'm putting it here to be fair. This change was actually made game wide for all social gear as it used to be *light* armor only) 3) The promised update from Eric musco (given to him through the dev team):::: A gold eye patch that was nothing but a re-colored Cartel Market item. 4)Promised update for 2.1- "Exclusive items" === Two dye colors that are UNBOUND and can be sold to anyone making its exclusiveness disappear.

 

when #3 happened: This game also put out a Cartel Market vendor which had exclusive armor // items that basically promoted buying packs for rep (Sure you can do this with credits, but the intention of it is to get people to actually buy packs with real cash) This exclusive vendor was a slap in the face to Collectors edition owners (except for Andryah, the bioware PR forum member) because all of these items were something promised to Collectors edition owners a year and a half ago. It's down right disgusting how many items have come out for the cartel market to bring in money for Bioware all the while neglecting a certain promise that was made when marketing the CE vendor out. Regular updates should've been Regularly Mocked.

 

I know the negative vastly outweighs the positive here...but that should just go to show how much I enjoy spending in game time with the guild and Star Wars.

Edited May 15, 2013 by veyl

[Suromir]

Subscribers no longer have any value. Only Gamble Box purchasers are of value in the new order.

 

 

This.

 

this entire update was for nicke-and-diming. What (even other f2p games) other MMO's have..the simplest thing of changing your beard/hair/maybe skin color...costs real money. I can see charging for things like body/race/etc...but a simple barbershop?

 

Subs serve only ONE purpose to EAWare...continual revenue to use to design new Cartel Market ****. That's ALL.

 

I don't like Cathar (and I'm not one whining about them being the "new" race either) but they couldn't even do them right...such a limited selection of hairs...and, while racial abilities serve no purpose other than show, they couldn't even give Cathar a unique racial....once again BioFail half-arsing strikes again. They'll never learn that it's crap like that that made this game fail and go f2p in under a year.

 

it's assinine

[XuShaBi]

That's generally what people mean when they mention a company "caring" about its customers...it's just a figure of speech.

 

My initial reply was to this quote:

 

It's not asking if people see any value in the game, it's asking subscribers if they feel like the company cares about them at all.

 

So you have made it explicit that what you meant by care goes beyond whether the game has value relative to the $15 subscription.

[CosmicKat]

Why is it that people can't seem to grasp the concept that you can not insult people personally on the boards? It seems to be something that is lost on many community members here.

 

Make your point. Deride the post. Keep the personal comments to yourself. It's really not that difficult.

 

According to my observations it is entirely allowed, condoned, and by way of lack of enforcement, supported to insult, deride, belittle and berate anyone you like... as long as you are arguing a pro-EA point.

 

But really, you quoted my post, which was quoting another poster who called everyone "stupid" for feeling frustrated about the CM, which was only one of many in this thread doing the same thing?

[Rankyn]

It's like buying a ticket to the movies, then finding I have to pay again if I actually expect to see the movie.

No, it's more like buying a ticket to the movies then finding you have to pay again if you actually expect to eat popcorn and candy while you're there.

 

Oh wait... that's EXACTLY how the movies work.

 

Are you the same guy that's been trying to make the same analogy about a baseball game all day?

Edited May 16, 2013 by Rankyn

[CosmicKat]

Yes it is. Funny thing about business, if you lose too many customers, you have no business. The last investor CC painted a very rosy picture. The problem is that many current customers are feeling abused.

 

Regardless if you agree with them that's not a good thing for long-term viability. Unhappy people are going to stop giving EA money. Others are going to leave because their friends moved on. Still more are going to leave because their guild collapsed and/or they can't find groups. The only people that will stick around will be the whales and die-hard EA fans. Good luck "supporting" the game then.

 

Recent articles at external sites finally had a positive trend. 2.1 snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. SW:TOR really doesn't need the negative PR. Sacrificing long-term profits for the sake of optimizing short-term profits is bad business. Unless there is no long-term.

 

It's worth pointing out that the non-Spun version of the "rosey picture" was...

 

"Hey folks. Remember when we said the game was doing ok? Well we made that up. It was actually twice as bad as we had said. Now we have doubled our numbers from that point, if you are paying attention that means we are back to the minimum point of keeping the lights on. Yay us!"

 

The actual overall picture was still pretty dismal, but the growth was very good. Growth is what the shareholders and stock market pay attention to, so that is why they are genuinely pleased.

[Blackavaar]

Ah, I see the Stormtroopers have arrived.

 

THE EMPIRE

Over 2 Billion Told to Move Along

 

[announcerharris]

I do. The updates to the game have been great, my playing experience has only gotten better, and I've yet to spend a single cent on Cartel Coins - the monthly allotment is more than enough. Makeb was great value for me, as well.

[Xivez]

You drama queens subs think you deserve everything for a lousy 15 bucks or whatever you are paying.

 

I pay my sub money gladly to support future patches and content.

[Alec_Fortescue]

I pay my sub money gladly to support future patches and content.

 

Which you then can't use without spending cartel coins... Gratz.

[CosmicKat]

Which you then can't use without spending cartel coins... Gratz.

 

I present to you, the Comeback of the Thread award. Congrats.

[Suromir]

No, it's more like buying a ticket to the movies then finding you have to pay again if you actually expect to eat popcorn and candy while you're there.

 

Oh wait... that's EXACTLY how the movies work.

 

Are you the same guy that's been trying to make the same analogy about a baseball game all day?

 

 

Stupid, false, analogy is stupid and false.

 

It's actually like paying to see a movie and then having to pay more to see extra scenes. derp.

[Jandi]

Which you then can't use without spending cartel coins... Gratz.

 

Which you get for free with a sub. Oh, right, you've used yours already on vanity stuff.

[BurnedRemains]

Which you get for free with a sub. Oh, right, you've used yours already on vanity stuff.

I'm sorry that the coins are free to use on anything and BW never explicitly said to hold on to them for future gayness.

[TRDK]

I do. Nuff said.