Healing IS TOTALLY ouf of control

[Astarica]

The people who say they totally neutralized a healer must be blind to the scoreboard. It's common to see a healer heal 150% if not more the amount of the top DPS, but yeah keep telling yourself that when you did 500K damage you totally forced that healer from helping his team because he only healed 1 million damage. Clearly that was all spent on himself despite that's twice the damage you did.

 

At best you can sometimes chase a healer away so that they cannot heal people near an objective of interest (the best example would be the turret control rooms in Novare Coast), but neutralize a healer, especially an Operative? That doesn't work. Just look at the WZ leaderboard numbers and see how well you neutralized that Operative who effortlessly healed for 150% of your top DPS.

[dcgregorya]

If only healing was that mundane. lmao

Any competent damage dealer can make things tough for a healer in warzones. If you have any insight on how to actually play your class then you can either A) kill him or B) put enough pressure on him so that others start dying .

Here's a piece of information that can and will help you kill healers/tanks in wzs.....learn their class. ( I.E Which abilities to interrupt, defensive cool downs, ect...ect.. )

 

This thread has so much fail in it.

 

Except I do play heals. I play every spec in this game, from every class, specifically because I like knowing exactly what I'm facing. And assuming you're running the standard healing spider tank (where there's 2-3 healers and DPS can only pressure so much without real time coordination), it's totally faceroll easy. The only time its hard is when you've got 2-4 DPS on you and you don't have any other healers or tanks on your team and that's more of a solo queuing problem than a healing problem. That also happens the same way to top DPS - I get focused constantly when I'm running DPS, as soon as the 'is unbeatable' gets announced its like having a target above my head.

 

And besides, running around in circles popping EMP + HoTs and dodge/grenade/CC when its off CD isn't exactly hard either.

Edited May 23, 2013 by dcgregorya

[xxIncubixx]

I chased around an enemy op healing himself to invincibility.

 

Guess what. He didn't have any time to heal someone else = WIN

 

...

 

The moral of the story? Stop using healers as an excuse to one's pitiful teamwork.

 

Fought against all sorts of teams with any number of healers ranging from none to five. Won a few, lost a few. That's PvP.

 

If you can't win any, then you, and your team's got issues.

 

wanna see u do that to a competent scoundrel or better yet with guard he can just /lol at everyone

Edited May 23, 2013 by xxIncubixx

[dcgregorya]

The people who say they totally neutralized a healer must be blind to the scoreboard. It's common to see a healer heal 150% if not more the amount of the top DPS, but yeah keep telling yourself that when you did 500K damage you totally forced that healer from helping his team because he only healed 1 million damage. Clearly that was all spent on himself despite that's twice the damage you did.

 

At best you can sometimes chase a healer away so that they cannot heal people near an objective of interest (the best example would be the turret control rooms in Novare Coast), but neutralize a healer, especially an Operative? That doesn't work. Just look at the WZ leaderboard numbers and see how well you neutralized that Operative who effortlessly healed for 150% of your top DPS.

 

Yeah, this, if you're not killing him he's not hindered and 1 healer isn't even an issue, I think we're all aware that the problem is multiple healers spider tanking, in which case sure you're pressuring one guy - the other two are just healing him through it though so you may as well just be doing nothing at all.

[kweassa]

wanna see u do that to a competent scoundrel or better yet with guard he can just /lol at everyone

 

Let him /lol all he wants. He's not healing anyone else but himself. And then, when the DPS team kills everyone else while the harassment team entertains the scoundrel, then we can get the last laugh with a hearty /lol behind his vanishing-act backside. He failed at doing his job, we didn't.

 

These sort of posts sort of confirms that the whining bunch really don't understand the mechanics of the win.

Edited May 23, 2013 by kweassa

[kweassa]

Yeah, this, if you're not killing him he's not hindered and 1 healer isn't even an issue, I think we're all aware that the problem is multiple healers spider tanking, in which case sure you're pressuring one guy - the other two are just healing him through it though so you may as well just be doing nothing at all.

 

And while the other two are healing the focused healer, none of their DPS and tanks get any heals. Get your DPS team to hit the rest while the harassers keep the healers and their tank occupied, and you get a win.

 

Sometimes this can be done easily, other times, when both teams are competent, it takes anything from 2~3 mins to even 5 minutes~7 minutes. In an extreme case, for instance Novare, there could be just one, big fight going on for 10 minutes at the South node, until a winner is determined and then the game is also determined.

 

People fighting, constantly switching targets, wearing down the enemy for minutes and minutes in a big epic fight -- and then there comes the little mistakes, they accumulate, and then things fluctuate rapidly and what seemed like an invincible wall comes cascading down.

 

That's a good PvP.

Edited May 23, 2013 by kweassa

[dcgregorya]

And while the other two are healing the focused healer, none of their DPS and tanks get any heals. Get your DPS team to hit the rest while the harassers keep the healers and their tank occupied, and you get a win.

 

No, because its silly easy to heal through damage. You're putting out in a totally ideal world, 1.5-2k dps while actively trying to chase someone who is trying to escape you. Any healer can heal that easily, plus keep AOEs and bubbles or HoTs up on other team members.

 

Right now you need to alpha strike healers, which logistically without voice comms or any sort of command structure in PVP, is easier said than done.

 

This wasn't the case in 1.7.

[kweassa]

What these whiney bunch don't realize, is that when they actually DO nerf healing, the repercussions are going to come straight back at them, and then they will immediately start whining about how attacks are too powerful and TTK much to short.

 

The thing is, when you are able to like, steamroll enemy healers just because a few people are targeting him, the same's gonna apply to your own healers.

 

The fight starts, DPS from both sides target healers, and all healers from both teams will start going down within 30 seconds. And then what happens in the next 30 seconds? The team with even the slightest bit less firepower will just face-melt and blown to kingdom come, since there are no heals at all, and then this will repeat in EVERY engagement since, well, the "variable" that was the healer and the teamwork surrounding how to keep him alive, is now NONEXISTENT since the whiners demanded healers should go down easily despite all the cross heals, guards, taunts, CCs, etc etc..

 

You ever see the low-level brackets where the class composition can be wonky? Like how sometimes you get no healers at all and it's all DPS for both teams?

 

What happens in those fights? The team with the higher level (=more power to use =more efficiency =more firepower) usually steamrolls the other... and that happens in every fight. You just can't win.

 

Is that what the whiners want? Is that their vision of a good "PvP"?

[Astarica]

And while the other two are healing the focused healer, none of their DPS and tanks get any heals. Get your DPS team to hit the rest while the harassers keep the healers and their tank occupied, and you get a win.

 

Sometimes this can be done easily, other times, when both teams are competent, it takes anything from 2~3 mins to even 5 minutes~7 minutes. In an extreme case, for instance Novare, there could be just one, big fight going on for 10 minutes at the South node, until a winner is determined and then the game is also determined.

 

People fighting, constantly switching targets, wearing down the enemy for minutes and minutes in a big epic fight -- and then there comes the little mistakes, they accumulate, and then things fluctuate rapidly and what seemed like an invincible wall comes cascading down.

 

That's a good PvP.

 

You're never at a strategic advantage because healing outpaces DPS by a long shot. If it was possible to actually force a healer to only heal himself, then that healer's total healed will be less than the DPS done by the person DPSing the said healer, because after all you cannot heal more damage than the amount you take if you're indeed unable to heal anyone else. Let's say you're simply assigned to a healer the entire game, and at the end you did 500K and he healed 700K. This would be pretty respectable numbers as healing total numbers generally far outpaces DPS, but no you did not neutralize the healer. It's the only way around. He neutralized your 500K damage and still had 200K extra heals left extra. He cannot possibly heal that extra 200K without healing anyone else becase you only did 500K.

 

Now since you likely have your own healers too, if you can limit that healer's contribution to others at 200K it might be enough to win especially if their DPS isn't able to limit your healer's contribution. But on a 1on1 basis there's no way you can ever be ahead of the healer in the current meta game. The only thing you can hope for is that their DPS did worse than you on a comparative basis. This is bad design. A good DPS should be able to beat a good healer some of the time, as in you do 500K damage to the healer you're on and he healed for less than 500K because you're so good at killing him. Right now this isn't even possible, and as long as the healer you're on exceeded your total damage done, there's no possible way he was neutralized because he outperformed you.

[kweassa]

You're never at a strategic advantage because healing outpaces DPS by a long shot. If it was possible to actually force a healer to only heal himself, then that healer's total healed will be less than the DPS done by the person DPSing the said healer, because after all you cannot heal more damage than the amount you take if you're indeed unable to heal anyone else. Let's say you're simply assigned to a healer the entire game, and at the end you did 500K and he healed 700K. This would be pretty respectable numbers as healing total numbers generally far outpaces DPS, but no you did not neutralize the healer. It's the only way around. He neutralized your 500K damage and still had 200K extra heals left extra. He cannot possibly heal that extra 200K without healing anyone else becase you only did 500K.

 

Now since you likely have your own healers too, if you can limit that healer's contribution to others at 200K it might be enough to win especially if their DPS isn't able to limit your healer's contribution. But on a 1on1 basis there's no way you can ever be ahead of the healer in the current meta game. The only thing you can hope for is that their DPS did worse than you on a comparative basis. This is bad design. A good DPS should be able to beat a good healer some of the time, as in you do 500K damage to the healer you're on and he healed for less than 500K because you're so good at killing him. Right now this isn't even possible, and as long as the healer you're on exceeded your total damage done, there's no possible way he was neutralized because he outperformed you.

 

So, if your theory is correct, then every WZ with teams that have equal number of healers and tanks, will always end in a stalemate with ZERO casualties to both sides. Then pray tell me, how does my team win? How does the other team win, for that matter?

 

 

I'll give you an answer: what makes my team win, or the other team win, is what's known as "outplaying the other guy". People usually refer it to as "skill". The conditions are the same, yet my team, or their team, gets kills, wins the fight, and then wins the game.

 

It appears the actual culprit behind these so-called "healers OP" troubles, may have nothing to do with "healers" themselves at all, no?

Edited May 23, 2013 by kweassa

[Astarica]

What these whiney bunch don't realize, is that when they actually DO nerf healing, the repercussions are going to come straight back at them, and then they will immediately start whining about how attacks are too powerful and TTK much to short.

 

After healing is nerfed, I think Bolster should simply give everyone another 15% more HP on top of what they currently have to deal with the short TTK, or DPS can be decreased as well (but by a smaller % than the Trauma increase or the equivalent healing decrease).

 

Besides, I rather have a game where people are dying all the time versus one where people are never dying.

[Astarica]

No, because its silly easy to heal through damage. You're putting out in a totally ideal world, 1.5-2k dps while actively trying to chase someone who is trying to escape you. Any healer can heal that easily, plus keep AOEs and bubbles or HoTs up on other team members.

 

Right now you need to alpha strike healers, which logistically without voice comms or any sort of command structure in PVP, is easier said than done.

 

This wasn't the case in 1.7.

 

Even with communication you're not going to alpha strike a 3 Op healer team on Voidstar, or anywhere else for that matter.

[kweassa]

After healing is nerfed, I think Bolster should simply give everyone another 15% more HP on top of what they currently have to deal with the short TTK, or DPS can be decreased as well (but by a smaller % than the Trauma increase or the equivalent healing decrease).

 

So, let me get this straight.

 

First, you nerf healing...and then, you buff HP to increase TTK... except the very purpose of asking to nerf healers was to decrease TTK in the first place... and then, on top of that, now you decrease DPS output... and with that decreased DPS you're supposed to be still able to take healers down easily...

 

But then how are you going to take down any healers when your DPS has now sunk, and TTK has increased due to balance the initial impact of heal-nerfs where people now fall like flies in combat? Because, 15% increase in HP for, let's say 28k health is 32.2k. That's 4.2k health increase, which is equivalent to one good attack.

 

That's like saying a guardian/jugg that uses Enure is going to survive longer in the midst of 3~4 DPS focusing you, because he has more health... except anyone who's ever played a guardian/jugg will immediately laugh at it, since even with an (average) 8k health increase any guardian/jugg is going down within 15 seconds from focused fire, unless they use defensive CDs with a 2.5~3 minute cool down.

 

The only way to increase TTK to a noticeable amount in an environment where healers are like flies, would be to bring it up to more than +10k for everyone. But then, we do that to everyone, so now healers will also have +10k more HP... so the healers survive "too long" again... so you have to do something again.... ow.. my head hurts.

 

Besides, I rather have a game where people are dying all the time versus one where people are never dying.

 

I can bet that when it's you that's always dying within 30 seconds of first contact due to focus fire, you'll start retracting your statements. According to you, that's something that should always happen to the healers, right?

 

Think of what a merry fight it will be. Anyone who stands in the front, always dies. And then whoever the enemy chooses to focus next, also dies 10 seconds later... as well as now people truly have no way to survive a single-stun's length of focus fire, since, like said, no heals and all... so now the game truly becomes "Stun Wars" as well.

 

Wow, I'll bet that's gonna make PvP fun.

 

No thanks.

Edited May 23, 2013 by kweassa

[MitchPB]

My Sorc was DPS since I made him a year ago and only healed once pre 2.0 hated never went back. Until a week ago when I talked myself into it. I was shocked at how easy it was, someone who only healed a few matches months ago can do 500K healing on the first try.

[sphyg]

My Sorc was DPS since I made him a year ago and only healed once pre 2.0 hated never went back. Until a week ago when I talked myself into it. I was shocked at how easy it was, someone who only healed a few matches months ago can do 500K healing on the first try.

 

if people used all their tools and knew how to play their classes correctly, this wouldnt be an issue, There are a few classes that have trauma which decreases healing done to the person you put it on. Also there are stuns, interrupts, and....you ready for this.... focus firing. If you focus fire, most of the time you can bring someone down before the healer has a chance to react.

[MitchPB]

if people used all their tools and knew how to play their classes correctly, this wouldnt be an issue, There are a few classes that have trauma which decreases healing done to the person you put it on. Also there are stuns, interrupts, and....you ready for this.... focus firing. If you focus fire, most of the time you can bring someone down before the healer has a chance to react.

 

^ Even if you don't kill the healer your still forcing him to heal himself and not other team mates.

[Lhancelot]

PVP healing has really gone totally out of control, its ridiculous and annoying and not fun, and then again ridiculous and annoying. Voidstar is nightmare to play, I make 900k dmg and have like 3 or 5 kills total. Nobody can open the door whole game and game ends with scores 0-0 mostly. Somewhere in the half of the game I just wish to leave and play a Hutball or something else. It feels like rolling the stone uphill for 15 minutes..

Focusing helps ofcourse but it has almost come to the point that you need at least 3 people on a healer. Operative healers are EXTREMELY hard to kill for some reason to add to the problem. And this is happening more often now, as every Bob and Jo are switching to healing spec.

 

Now what we need something is some healing limitation in PVP: something like - the more you heal the same player the more are heals reduced. Cap it on 50%. Example: if you heal a player for his full hp heals are reduced 25%, if you heal him 2x for full hp (say 50k heal) reduce heal 50%. Heals are 50% until he dies. Then reset after death. Numbers are arbitrary here thats balance issue.

 

I agree. These are good points you make, bruv. Especially healing ops. Nerf those ****s into the ground!

[Savej]

The necro is strong in this thread...