Understand need for Bolster but it's making WZ's unbearable.

[Jeeses]

It's lame even when you can beat it because these games invariably go on for a very long time even if you do win.

 

if its really such an issue just leave the game and reque. the only way they could reduce match time would result in making healers useless, then you'll be back here complaining about being killed too fast because nobody will heal you.

 

 

Don't try deny it, you know its the truth

[Astarica]

if its really such an issue just leave the game and reque. the only way they could reduce match time would result in making healers useless, then you'll be back here complaining about being killed too fast because nobody will heal you.

 

 

Don't try deny it, you know its the truth

 

Um, the balance before 2.0 was pretty good when a team of all DPS has a reasonable shot at beating a team with healers. Your odds are probably lower than 50% but it's not 1% like it is right now. You'd have to be blind to notice healers are strong right now. This indirectly means games are longer overall without necessarily being any closer. A 10-0 Alderaan can be a complete blow out, especially if nobody on the side with the 10 ever died which is very possible, but such a game takes basically twice the time as a 300-0 blow out. It's not more competitive or more interesting. It's just longer. You take your wins even if they take longer, but I find it hard to believe people are looking forward to 0-0 Voidstar snoozefest where the winning team had 5 kills.

[Jeeses]

Um, the balance before 2.0 was pretty good when a team of all DPS has a reasonable shot at beating a team with healers. Your odds are probably lower than 50% but it's not 1% like it is right now. You'd have to be blind to notice healers are strong right now. This indirectly means games are longer overall without necessarily being any closer. A 10-0 Alderaan can be a complete blow out, especially if nobody on the side with the 10 ever died which is very possible, but such a game takes basically twice the time as a 300-0 blow out. It's not more competitive or more interesting. It's just longer. You take your wins even if they take longer, but I find it hard to believe people are looking forward to 0-0 Voidstar snoozefest where the winning team had 5 kills.

 

 

I've beaten plenty of teams with healers when we have none, the whole time this thread is just a l2play...

 

Focus attack, interrupt, stun in appropriate times and healers will drop.

Don't focus healer, smack meele, chain stuns and insta cap resolve will result in you being beat.

 

Healers are strong, I'll agree. But they need to be or nobody will play them. Weak healers = no healers = 8 dps deathmatch games = snoozefest more than a game with 3 healers

[Astarica]

I've beaten plenty of teams with healers when we have none, the whole time this thread is just a l2play...

 

Focus attack, interrupt, stun in appropriate times and healers will drop.

Don't focus healer, smack meele, chain stuns and insta cap resolve will result in you being beat.

 

Healers are strong, I'll agree. But they need to be or nobody will play them. Weak healers = no healers = 8 dps deathmatch games = snoozefest more than a game with 3 healers

 

Are you seriously saying there's an even chance for 8 DPS to defeat a team with any healer? I don't care if this one time you beat a team with a lousy healer. If you have 8 DPS against a team with a healer and a tank your team is heavily disadvantaged. It's still winnable but nobody in their right mind would want these odds.

[MahneWarrior]

I think he is just trying to say he finds matches when both teams have active healers and guards the warzone becomes less fun. He prefers the faster pace shorter TTK when teams have no healers.

 

That is what I got from it

[szczypaczek]

Are you seriously saying there's an even chance for 8 DPS to defeat a team with any healer? I don't care if this one time you beat a team with a lousy healer. If you have 8 DPS against a team with a healer and a tank your team is heavily disadvantaged. It's still winnable but nobody in their right mind would want these odds.

 

This is the way it should be. Good Team composition beats bad team comp. You should be in a disadvantage when playing 8 dps against let's say 4 dps/2 healers/2 tanks. In this metagame good dps are more important then ever. Mark the healers and keep pressure on them.

[Luco-Zade]

"Unstoppable force meets Immovable object"

 

I know precisely the kind of games you are talking about op.

 

Some 4 man premades actually specialize in this kind of crap.

 

It involves, basically, a moving tank group involving 1-2 tanks and 3 healers.

 

Mostly seen on ACW and NC, using ACW as an example.

 

Speeder pops, everyone flies in, 2 go grass, rest hit mid APU.

 

at this point S'ins usually run forward and force push everyone back a bit, their healers get into position.

 

Immovable object now occurs.

 

Their disadvantage is that they turtle themselves up, so Reps naturally move onto snow and remove the 1 or 2 people there and cap node.

 

At this point you have pretty much the whole mid crew incoming en masse, so you switch to mid and cap as they re-cap snow.

 

Where ever you hit, you are the unstoppable force sweeping aside their 1-2 guards.

 

Wherever they retake and porc up, they become the immovable object.

 

The set-up for this ensures the sucking in of the hostile team for the first engagement, allowing mid to be capped and putting imps in the lead so Rep is tail chasing and unable to break the situation because of how the imps drag it down.

 

Its painful enough for veterans but for new players to pvp its downright demoralising.

[Astarica]

"Unstoppable force meets Immovable object"

 

I know precisely the kind of games you are talking about op.

 

Some 4 man premades actually specialize in this kind of crap.

 

It involves, basically, a moving tank group involving 1-2 tanks and 3 healers.

 

Mostly seen on ACW and NC, using ACW as an example.

 

Speeder pops, everyone flies in, 2 go grass, rest hit mid APU.

 

at this point S'ins usually run forward and force push everyone back a bit, their healers get into position.

 

Immovable object now occurs.

 

Their disadvantage is that they turtle themselves up, so Reps naturally move onto snow and remove the 1 or 2 people there and cap node.

 

At this point you have pretty much the whole mid crew incoming en masse, so you switch to mid and cap as they re-cap snow.

 

Where ever you hit, you are the unstoppable force sweeping aside their 1-2 guards.

 

Wherever they retake and porc up, they become the immovable object.

 

The set-up for this ensures the sucking in of the hostile team for the first engagement, allowing mid to be capped and putting imps in the lead so Rep is tail chasing and unable to break the situation because of how the imps drag it down.

 

Its painful enough for veterans but for new players to pvp its downright demoralising.

 

Those kind of games are the 'don't lose' strat and it's downright terrible because the game is going to drag out very long even if you read it correctly, and in fact even if you totally suck, it's still likely to drag out for very long because the immoveable object isn't particularly good at taking objectives.

 

In these cases you basically just have to mirror their placement and hope you can outbore them.

[Cretinus]

... I have always been of th eopinion that I would rather get blown out early in a match then lose by a hair in the last second of a Warzone. Don't get me wrong, I love matches like that sometimes. But not when it's 2 out of 3 Warzones. I find it exhausting.

 

Another creative disguise for "I can no longer destroy others with my superior gear, BW give us carried-by-gear back!".

[mtsr]

20 minute matches Are too long 15 minutes should be max with 10 min matches sprinkled in.

 

20 minute matches = 3 an hour = insane comm grind.

Edited May 7, 2013 by mtsr

[BalphoWan]

I've beaten plenty of teams with healers when we have none, the whole time this thread is just a l2play...

 

Focus attack, interrupt, stun in appropriate times and healers will drop.

Don't focus healer, smack meele, chain stuns and insta cap resolve will result in you being beat.

 

Healers are strong, I'll agree. But they need to be or nobody will play them. Weak healers = no healers = 8 dps deathmatch games = snoozefest more than a game with 3 healers

 

Really? The odds of a PUG group in a WZ being able to coordinate focus on 3 healers is slim to none. It shocks me when I see posts with players trying to argue that it's simply a "learn to play issue." If you cannot see that healers have been a little overbuffed in WZs post 2.0, then you are blind, or you are a healer and do not want to get nerfed. It's not a secret and it's not a "learn to play issue." No one is saying it's impossible to put down a team with three healers. They are saying it is as impractical as it is improbable (especially in non-rated PUG WZs). And if you don't realize that, you either haven't been playing 55 PVP, or you are lying to us/yourself. Healing has been turned up too high. Healers shouldn't be easy to kill; but they also shouldn't be impossible to kill. It is obvious just by the shear number of healers you are seeing in 55 PVP now. I am guilty of it myself. I hated playing my Commando in PVP before 2.0. But since then I have started healing with him in WZs and it is noticeably more OP. I am not saying they went in the wrong direction with healers; just a little too far in that direction. And I think that is the biggest reason the length of time for Warzones has dramatically increased. And I just think a blowout is more fun then a stalemate, regardless of whether I win or lose either.

Edited May 7, 2013 by BalphoWan

[BalphoWan]

I think he is just trying to say he finds matches when both teams have active healers and guards the warzone becomes less fun. He prefers the faster pace shorter TTK when teams have no healers.

 

That is what I got from it

 

Yup..

[BalphoWan]

This is the way it should be. Good Team composition beats bad team comp. You should be in a disadvantage when playing 8 dps against let's say 4 dps/2 healers/2 tanks. In this metagame good dps are more important then ever. Mark the healers and keep pressure on them.

 

Yes, good team composition should be an advantage. But you only have power over half of your team's composition outside ranked WZs. And none, if you are queing solo. That's the problem. That's why it shouldn't present as much of an advantage as it does post 2.0. Because at best, you are almost guaranteeing a PUG group to get into a stalemate. It is dragging out Warzones, and making them less fun IMO. If it is going to be that way, which I am not saying it shouldn't, at least find other ways to shorten up the WZ, so I can get on to the next match. I have also noticed that it has been causing a higher number of ragequitters. Four of the five matches I qued up for yesterday, were matches that were half way finished with no chance of us changing the outcome. So I just did my best until the inevitable drawn out defeat.

Edited May 7, 2013 by BalphoWan

[BalphoWan]

Another creative disguise for "I can no longer destroy others with my superior gear, BW give us carried-by-gear back!".

 

Like I said in my previous posts, I cannot argue with you about my true intentions for starting this thread. All I can do is tell you that you are wrong. That was not my reason for my OP. I am okay with the gear gap being closed. I think it has been closed a little too much, but I get it. I don't mind losing, and I don't mind getting my *** handed to me. I consider myself a pretty decent PVPer, with full Partisan and 3 pieces of Conqueror, and I still get my *** handed to me one on one sometimes. I am completely fine with that. I just hate the feeling of futility in a WZ. I refuse to ragequit ever. So a lot of WZs lately have been just turned into a war of attrition, and I personally feel that it was more fun when Warzones were faster, even if that meant more unbalanced sometimes as well. It's just a personal opinion. But as I said numerous times, I am fine with keeping things the way they are and arbitrarily lowering the time it takes to win a WZ.

[Astarica]

I'm not sure what incompetent competition people ran into where the other side has 3 healers and can't even drag out the game. This has nothing to do with L2P. You can absolutely be dominating a 3 healer team but it still takes a very long time to win, because 3 healer (or more) teams specialize in dragging games out. This could be a 10-0 in Alderaan where they never killed anyone on your side so you know you got the game in the bag as soon as you capped your first turret, but it doesn't stop the game from taking 20 minutes. A team with 3 healers will usally last until at least the X7 round in Hypergates. Again, the game is not necessarily any closer. It's just longer.

[BalphoWan]

I'm not sure what incompetent competition people ran into where the other side has 3 healers and can't even drag out the game. This has nothing to do with L2P. You can absolutely be dominating a 3 healer team but it still takes a very long time to win, because 3 healer (or more) teams specialize in dragging games out. This could be a 10-0 in Alderaan where they never killed anyone on your side so you know you got the game in the bag as soon as you capped your first turret, but it doesn't stop the game from taking 20 minutes. A team with 3 healers will usally last until at least the X7 round in Hypergates. Again, the game is not necessarily any closer. It's just longer.

 

Well said. That is exactly my point.