Useless Alacrity on item for Marauder ???

[Rheemus]

So is the following crafted item ANOTHER bioware bug or who would use alacrity as maruader/sentinel, when everyone seems to agree You need so much of it to get GCD to 1.1 that its waste of stats, and better spent on accurace, surge etc.

 

Item: [Artifact] Microfilament Might D-Device:

 

+163 Strength

+166 Endurance

+79 Power

+74 Alacrity

 

Its a shame really since these crafted artifact level 53 items have really good stats, except it seems for this one :-( ( the COmbat one has much more end than str, and i guess is for tanks and not dps)

[thebad]

Alacrity is right below exp, Str, and 100% acc as far as importance to a carnage Mara at least. Math doesn't lie, go 0 crit/0 surge and full power/Alactrity.

[arkitip]

Alacrity is right below exp, Str, and 100% acc as far as importance to a carnage Mara at least. Math doesn't lie, go 0 crit/0 surge and full power/Alactrity.

 

Where is this math? I haven't seen anyone post this, support this, or even argue this at all.

[Mr_Fuzzle]

Where is this math? I haven't seen anyone post this, support this, or even argue this at all.

 

I was about to say...

[thebad]

Where is this math? I haven't seen anyone post this, support this, or even argue this at all.

 

I'll get you a good example

Edited April 29, 2013 by thebad

[thebad]

Where is this math? I haven't seen anyone post this, support this, or even argue this at all.

 

I was assuming people that are interested in the math might have already done the simple math:

 

Set 1:

Str: 2557 Crit chance: 18.04%

Power: 864. Crit Damage Bonus: 51%

Crit: 0. Melee Speed Increase: 4.93% (.0795 sec)

Surge: 0. Melee Damage Bonus: 745.57

Exp: 2018. Force Damage Bonus: 1165.97

Alacrity: 364

 

---------------------------------

Set 2:

Str: 2557 Crit chance: 25.22%

Power: 464. Crit Damage Bonus: 70.18%

Crit: 400. Melee Speed Increase: 0%

Surge: 364. Melee Damage Bonus: 648.97

Exp: 2018. Force Damage Bonus: 1069.37

Alacrity: 0

--------------------------------

Basic avg dps formula with crit: (avg dmg + (avg dmg * crit % * surge % ))/strike time in seconds

( use basic special attack formulas and average the min max to get avg dmg for a strike)

 

Set 1: Massacre avg dps with crit: (1579.96 + (1579.96 * 0.1804 * (0.51 +.3))/(1.5 - 0.07395) = 1269.822 dps

Set 2: Massacre avg dps with crit: (1383.36 + (1383.36 * 0.2522 * (0.7018 +.3))/(1.5 - 0) = 1238.758 dps

 

Massacre is an example, you can use this on all special attack formulas and you'll get these results.... In fact massacre has a 30% increase in crit damage and I used that in there just for your case's benefit but it still falls short of power/alacrity build. There's a lot bigger gap when you put in you rage builders and other "noise" styles between massacre and scream. Remember scream is not an autocrit so that argument has less credibibility.

 

Set 1 and 2 numbers are straight from my excel and in game character sheet. I used power /crit as proportional trade offs and alac/surge as proportional trade offs.

[K_osss]

Seems like a better way to compare would be to keep the power stat the same between the examples. That way you're truly comparing crit/surge to alacrity rather than what looks more like armor set 1 to armor set 2 to me. I'm not saying you're comparison is objectively right or wrong just not that clear.

[thebad]

Where do you get the points from? You have to give up power to get crit... Unless you want to switch out the exp crystals for crit....that's not a good idea. And the rest (about 244) are in acc so you can reach 100%.

[Delta_V]

2 massive problems with your test here:

 

1) You can't trade critical rating for alacrity, so you should be holding crit constant between tests. Instead, in your second test, you sacrificed ~400 points of power for crit. Everyone already agrees this is a bad idea for Combat/Carnage. So by trading power for an inferior stat, you skewed the results away from the test with zero alacrity. Try the same test but hold the power/crit constant, and I bet you will see much different results.

 

2) Your test fails to account for resource generation. Since Marauder/Knight resource generation is primarily tied to abilities that are on separate cooldowns unaffected by alacrity, the increased attack speed is unsustainable. If you burn through Focus/Rage before your generators come off cooldown, you end up spamming strike, which does terrible dps.

 

EDIT:

Nobody was arguing that crit was useful, most people agree to dump crit and stack power for Carnage/Combat. You're arguing that Alacrity is in fact useful for knights/marauders, but the only things you can trade for alacrity are surge and accuracy. So if you want to show the usefulness of alacrity, you need to hold the other stats (strength, power, crit, etc.) constant, and only vary Surge/Alacrity (since you still agree that accuracy is more important).

Edited April 29, 2013 by Delta_V

[thebad]

2 massive problems with your test here:

 

1) You can't trade critical rating for alacrity, so you should be holding crit constant between tests. Instead, in your second test, you sacrificed ~400 points of power for crit. Everyone already agrees this is a bad idea for Combat/Carnage. So by trading power for an inferior stat, you skewed the results away from the test with zero alacrity. Try the same test but hold the power/crit constant, and I bet you will see much different results.

 

2) Your test fails to account for resource generation. Since Marauder/Knight resource generation is primarily tied to abilities that are on separate cooldowns unaffected by alacrity, the increased attack speed is unsustainable. If you burn through Focus/Rage before your generators come off cooldown, you end up spamming strike, which does terrible dps.

 

EDIT:

Nobody was arguing that crit was useful, most people agree to dump crit and stack power for Carnage/Combat. You're arguing that Alacrity is in fact useful for knights/marauders, but the only things you can trade for alacrity are surge and accuracy. So if you want to show the usefulness of alacrity, you need to hold the other stats (strength, power, crit, etc.) constant, and only vary Surge/Alacrity (since you still agree that accuracy is more important).

 

1) I traded the exact points between power and crit ( proportional as I mentioned in my notes) and Alacrity with surge

 

2) resource is managed and if people cant afford 2 rage every 20 strikes then they're doing something wrong

 

As for your note, you can run these for any scenario you want but make sure your using actual templating numbers. The numbers you see above are from my two actual suits. The only reason I used two variables is because crit and surge are dependent on eachother and I know people will ask for them to be changed to complement each other. Anyway, if you run both separate you will still get lower values vs alacrity.

 

I'm not here to start a revolution to convince you, ill leave that to evolution.

 

Edit: with power constant at 864 and crit constant at 18.04%

 

Set 1 (364 Alac/ 0 Surge) = 1269.822

Set 2 (0 Surge/ 364 Alac) = 1243.665

Edited April 29, 2013 by thebad

[Tatami]

So, um Since the update my crit went down like every one elses. I thought it was prudent to sacrifice some of my copious amounts of power for some, changed a few deft mods for potent mods, a few adept enhancements for battle enhancements, was I in error? Should I get rid of crit in favor of power? I figured losing crit would hurt.

[thebad]

Pre-2.0 you would put in a minimum of 150-200 crit because it was worth it with that formula no matter what spec you were. With new formula it's too steep and its not worth it unless your spec gains a lot from crit ( ie heals, rage ect.)

[Ashuranrx]

Was this strictly math or was this parse on a target dummy? Because through parsing, many find that the best crit % is actually 23-24%, which is about 250-275 crit rating. Not 400. Droping below 23% or going above 24% drops DPS. Accuracy and surge were split evenly, no alacrity.

 

What happens in a 10-15 mins parse is that Master Strike, which accounts for a good chunk of damage, does not benefit from alacrity. Berserk in ataru makes surge value more and alacrity value less during its uptime, because Berserk's 30% alacrity already burns rage so fast that some strikes are needed to build rage. So having more alacrity does not benefit as much as surge.