CosmicKat Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 You need to learn the difference between "free" and "for no additional charge." As I said elsewhere, unless you pay $0 for your sub, the included CC are not free. The fact that longer your sub period, the larger your CC stipend is proof enough that the CC are a subscription inventive, not a gift. As others have noted, a gift is "Here's something for you. I expect nothing in return for it." So even the 100 CC per month for using the free sec key phone app are not a gift, because you have to do something to get them. They are also a free gift to let you pay for stuff you would not have had to pay for had the CM not existed in the first place. An equivalent would be having your workplace increase the cost of water from the cooler to $5 per cup from free, and then giving you a free coupon for 1% off of your purchases of their exciting new Temperature Regulated H20 Dispensing Machine. You are being rewarded with a miniscule discount on something that used to be inclusive with your subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 They are also a free gift They're not free and they're not a gift. Your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 They're not free and they're not a gift. Your turn. I was using sarcasm. Of course they aren't free, a gift, a bonus, or anything of the sort. They are a placebo to distract you while your pockets are being picked. Sleight of hand. It works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVeritas Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 So from what we've heard of the new 2.1 update it seems as both the new race, Cathar and the new customization options are being put into the cartel market. As such I'd like to draw attention to a page that Bioware themselves used as commercial for subscribing. http://www.swtor.com/free/features We've been constantly promised that subscribers would have full access to character customization. You guys at Bioware going to update that soon and stop making false advertisement? While I'm sure that the F2P and Cartel Market pushed this game forward there seemed to be a trend to make some actual content in this game a P2W hybrid where either you have to have enough in-game money to buy packs off the GTN or enough real-money to buy packs of the CM. It's crazy. I'm starting to wonder why I even sub anymore. Might as well get passes for the WZs since everything is behind a paywall anyway regardless of whether I sub or not. Tired of this crap BioWare, that free month we got in January/February seems to be the first and last act of good will from you guys towards your customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) I was using sarcasm. Okee dokee. I'm starting to wonder why I even sub anymore. Why do you? Might as well get passes for the WZs since everything is behind a paywall anyway regardless of whether I sub or not. What's behind a "paywall?" Wait, yeah, I can see that you can't really do WZs without properly colored armor. Edited April 28, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVeritas Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Okee dokee. Why do you? What's behind a "paywall?" Wait, yeah, I can see that you can't really do WZs without properly colored armor. Instead of getting into it with you, I'm just going to refer you this post. Wow ok so I started to read beyond the post I just responded to and wow, really people. You have all become such brown nosers I dont think you even see it. Im with the OP. As a subscriber we should NEVER have to buy a new race or class, not even with our monthly allotment, NEVER. Im sorry but I am really shocked at the amount of support there is for a "cartel market exclusive" race. You have all become mindless droids. Fitting suppose for SWTOR but still, it makes me sad to see. M This is how I feel, whether you or anyone else agrees or disagrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolits Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Wow ok so I started to read beyond the post I just responded to and wow, really people. You have all become such brown nosers I dont think you even see it. Im with the OP. As a subscriber we should NEVER have to buy a new race or class, not even with our monthly allotment, NEVER. Im sorry but I am really shocked at the amount of support there is for a "cartel market exclusive" race. You have all become mindless droids. Fitting suppose for SWTOR but still, it makes me sad to see. M That's exactly how I feel. I think its ridiculous subscribers have to buy the new race and I'm pretty shocked at the level of support some people are showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVeritas Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Baseline demand: People want stuff FREE WITH SUB. Meaning they do not want to pay extra real $$ to get it. Bioware solution in a Freemium business model where subs and freebs coexist in game: You get a coin allowance every month, at no extra charge to your subscription. Sensible players save coins for future content on the CM. You can then buy said items of controversy using these coins.... again at no extra charge to your subscription. It's free Now... if Bioware gives you 500 coins per month but puts 1000 coins worth of new non-fluff game content on the CM every month... then you have a gripe. So far, that has not happened... not even with the much wanted Cathar and Character Customization. Character Customization is going to be 800 CC for both subs and F2P. And I don't think they should make us use our cartel coins to offset them cash grabbing for content. I already support the game by subscribing, everything else should be free. I can understand new vanity stuff like Revan's/Nihilus' Mask are CC but something basic like a new species and re-customization should be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Instead of getting into it with you, I'm just going to refer you this post. Gotta love the world of false dichotomies some people live in. If someone's not an incessant complainer, they're a brown noser. Edited April 28, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVeritas Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 That's exactly how I feel. I think its ridiculous subscribers have to buy the new race and I'm pretty shocked at the level of support some people are showing. These are the same individuals who were ridiculing worried players back in 2012 with their ''the sky is falling'' jokes. Some people just aren't willing to acknowledge things they don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) These are the same individuals who were ridiculing worried players back in 2012 with their ''the sky is falling'' jokes. Some people just aren't willing to acknowledge things they don't like. It's mighty arrogant of you to presume to know what others don't like. Here's my solution: if nothing on the CM is worth my CC, guess what? I don't buy it. Amazing that I can exercise self-restraint that way. Edited April 28, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVeritas Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 It's mighty arrogant of you to presume to know what others don't like. Your welcome to label it as you wish, I'm here to voice my opinion to BioWare, not discuss it with someone who is clearly on the other side. I don't need to get you on my side nor am I interested in getting on yours. Agree to disagree, moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I'm here to voice my opinion to BioWare Looks more like you're here to tell others what their opinions should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVeritas Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Looks more like you're here to tell others what their opinions should be. Are you making money on this or something? Or do you just have a lot of free time? I'm just not going to respond to you anymore, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Wow ok so I started to read beyond the post I just responded to and wow, really people. You have all become such brown nosers I dont think you even see it. Im with the OP. As a subscriber we should NEVER have to buy a new race or class, not even with our monthly allotment, NEVER. Im sorry but I am really shocked at the amount of support there is for a "cartel market exclusive" race. You have all become mindless droids. Fitting suppose for SWTOR but still, it makes me sad to see. M Quoted for truth...+1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Baseline demand: People want stuff FREE WITH SUB. Meaning they do not want to pay extra real $$ to get it. Bioware solution in a Freemium business model where subs and freebs coexist in game: You get a coin allowance every month, at no extra charge to your subscription. Sensible players save coins for future content on the CM. You can then buy said items of controversy using these coins.... again at no extra charge to your subscription. It's free Now... if Bioware gives you 500 coins per month but puts 1000 coins worth of new non-fluff game content on the CM every month... then you have a gripe. So far, that has not happened... not even with the much wanted Cathar and Character Customization. Yeah, I'll change the oil on your car for 16 bucks. Everyone else will get their oil changed free but they need to purchase the oil filter for 10 bucks. In return for your 16 bucks, I will give you a voucher for 5 bucks. You have to use that 5 dollar voucher on your A/C work. Its not free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelodyofLegends Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Um not really... Our subscription is for very specific perks and nowhere is it listed that among those perks the game MUST include NEW races! Now if Cathar had been in the game since launch and then they suddenly removed it to add to the cartel mart, THEN you would have a reason to complain. but since that is not the case... I don;t understand why this is such a scandal... Edited April 28, 2013 by MelodyofLegends reworded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I was using sarcasm. Of course they aren't free, a gift, a bonus, or anything of the sort. They are a placebo to distract you while your pockets are being picked. Sleight of hand. It works. DING DING DING! We have a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 That's exactly how I feel. I think its ridiculous subscribers have to buy the new race and I'm pretty shocked at the level of support some people are showing. Support is one thing, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Spin is another. You can remove 90% of it from this forum with a single /ignore. I think we all know who, and it has nothing to do with muffins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramecha Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) DING DING DING! We have a winner Im curious, do you sub just to bash the game? You seem to hate it and people who defend it. Just figure you would have better things to do... Edited April 28, 2013 by Ultramecha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupelixx Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 You know, I can see both sides of the argument. It's not exactly false advertising, but it does feel dirty that a sub should need to use their monthly CC to get the unlock, especially when the new unlocks together are going to cost more than the monthly allotment. Personally, I disagree with the unlocks being Cartel Market only. Especially for subbed players. I've got in-game credits and play time. Let me earn the unlock that way as an option. Since you only get a bunch of monthly CC for paying a sub, it cheapens the experience and makes it feel like a backhanded, paid content update. Whoever is right or wrong doesn't matter, it's still going to leave a sour taste in people's mouths. And it's starting to feel like an uncomfortable precedent is being set for future content updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Support is one thing, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some people (and this has nothing to do with cats) seem unwilling or unable to acknowledge that it's possible to enjoy the game despite the fact that it has room for improvement. You know, I can see both sides of the argument. It's not exactly false advertising, but it does feel dirty that a sub should need to use their monthly CC to get the unlock, especially when the new unlocks together are going to cost more than the monthly allotment. Personally, I disagree with the unlocks being Cartel Market only. Especially for subbed players. I've got in-game credits and play time. Let me earn the unlock that way as an option. Since you only get a bunch of monthly CC for paying a sub, it cheapens the experience and makes it feel like a backhanded, paid content update. Whoever is right or wrong doesn't matter, it's still going to leave a sour taste in people's mouths. And it's starting to feel like an uncomfortable precedent is being set for future content updates. These "unlocks" you speak of have nothing to do with being able to adventure in the game. You can go from 1 to 50 without spending an additional dime of real money or CC. The CM items are pure convenience and cosmetic. And just about everything in the achievement trees is unlockable with a combination of creds plus a high enough legacy and/or social levels. Edited April 28, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Yeah, I'll change the oil on your car for 16 bucks. Everyone else will get their oil changed free but they need to purchase the oil filter for 10 bucks. In return for your 16 bucks, I will give you a voucher for 5 bucks. You have to use that 5 dollar voucher on your A/C work. Its not free. Completely nonsequitur to the discussion here Soluss. Also a very inaccurate analogy. A better analogy would be: You purchase a new car from a dealer. As an incentive to buy from them instead of Joe Auto Dealer down the street...the dealer gives you $500 in vouchers for free service in their auto center. They are yours.. free.. no strings attached other then the actual car purchase. What, when, and how you choose to spend those vouchers is completely up to you since you own them now. The only restriction is they must be used at their auto-center and they are non-transferable. The dealer even says you can purchse cool new trim for your car with those vouchers.. trim other people have to pay real cash for....as long as you buy it from their part center that is attached to the auto center. Why would a car dealer do this? For the same reason other companies do similar things.. to incentivize you to buy product, to reward you from said purchase, and to tie the incentive into their other business to encourage you to shop and buy from then even more. Bioware is doing the same with their subscription incentives where you get 500+ FREE coins with each month you subscribe. Edited April 28, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVeritas Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 You know, I can see both sides of the argument. It's not exactly false advertising, but it does feel dirty that a sub should need to use their monthly CC to get the unlock, especially when the new unlocks together are going to cost more than the monthly allotment. Personally, I disagree with the unlocks being Cartel Market only. Especially for subbed players. I've got in-game credits and play time. Let me earn the unlock that way as an option. Since you only get a bunch of monthly CC for paying a sub, it cheapens the experience and makes it feel like a backhanded, paid content update. Whoever is right or wrong doesn't matter, it's still going to leave a sour taste in people's mouths. And it's starting to feel like an uncomfortable precedent is being set for future content updates. This is exactly how I feel about all this, it's not the even the cathar specifically I'm worried about, it's that the new standard for SWTOR content charges even subs for basic features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Im curious, do you sub just to bash the game? You seem to hate it and people who defend it. Just figure you would have better things to do... Nope, I sub because I enjoy the game for the most part. That doesnt mean I cant criticize what I dont like. On the same token, you dont have to defend every single thing this company does, just because you like the game. This company does milk people to play their game. You cannot deny this. If you really do not think you are getting milked then you have no value for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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