Lockouts should be removed from story modes

[Wallner]

Btw, I have a feeling I've ended up on a bunch of people's ignore list now. Since they don't want to be matched with someone who's locked. And there's no other way for them to get a fresh run if I'm in the queue.

 

I don't know if I should feel bad for that or not..

 

Maybe there should at least be a way for people to choose in the GF if they only want a Full run or if they are ok with doing a phase with downed bosses. Would make the matching easier.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Wallner

[Never_Hesitate]

Btw, I have a feeling I've ended up on a bunch of people's ignore list now. Since they don't want to be matched with someone who's locked. And there's no other way for them to get a fresh run if I'm in the queue.

 

I don't know if I should feel bad for that or not..

 

Maybe there should at least be a way for people to choose in the GF if they only want a Full run or if they are ok with doing a phase with downed bosses. Would make the matching easier.

 

There is a box they can just untick "Match with people progressed further than you" or something like that, then they wouldn't need to ignore you and could get a clean run.

 

But why bother reading, ignoring is much easier

[XuShaBi]

This would be a better idea if you can roll only ONCE for each boss per week. Regardless whether you got the loot, you shouldn't be allowed to roll again on loots from boss which you have already done before reset. Otherwise, people will just keep running ops and eventually everyone is geared in a week.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

This would be a better idea if you can roll only ONCE for each boss per week. Regardless whether you got the loot, you shouldn't be allowed to roll again on loots from boss which you have already done before reset. Otherwise, people will just keep running ops and eventually everyone is geared in a week.

 

This is exactly what I'm suggesting, just one roll per boss and if you don't get anything it'll be tough luck even if you pass on the loot or greed.

 

There is a box they can just untick "Match with people progressed further than you" or something like that

 

This is another problem and probably why also WoW's LFR gets bashed because it doesn't let you choose the boss you want to start from. Bioware could avoid that effect from happening in this game by simply giving the user the option to untick all start points when they queue.

 

Only having the option for fresh run or not is not enough IMO.

[Wallner]

There is a box they can just untick "Match with people progressed further than you" or something like that, then they wouldn't need to ignore you and could get a clean run.

 

But why bother reading, ignoring is much easier

 

Hmm I've never seen that.. I've only seen the "match with in-progress groups".. But I thought that was about joining groups that are already inside a phase and looking for reinforcements.

[Never_Hesitate]

Hmm I've never seen that.. I've only seen the "match with in-progress groups".. But I thought that was about joining groups that are already inside a phase and looking for reinforcements.

 

I just assumed that that doesn't match you with people with lockouts, because in all my listings I've never gotten into such a group, when I had that unticked.

 

But maybe I'm wrong

[steave]

I just assumed that that doesn't match you with people with lockouts, because in all my listings I've never gotten into such a group, when I had that unticked.

 

But maybe I'm wrong

 

Of course you haven't - unticking it means you DON'T want to join anything but fresh runs. Tick it and it will match you with anyone that has at least the last boss left.

[Never_Hesitate]

Of course you haven't - unticking it means you DON'T want to join anything but fresh runs. Tick it and it will match you with anyone that has at least the last boss left.

 

so my first statment was true ^^

[Wallner]

Mkay then it's a strangely large number of people who have it ticked, but declines the moment the op matching completes (where they can see that bosses are downed). Edited April 29, 2013 by Wallner

[Lostpenguins]

Let me break it down for you:

Instead you should be "locked out" from rolling on gear from each boss more than once a week.

This still defeats the purpose of gated progression. If you could just keep que'ing over and over and over again, you'd have some diehards who could possibly be fully geared in a few days as they just kept que'ing over and over again. The gear from SM Ops is still progression gear so, no, it shouldn't just be open to this sort of system.

The current lockout system is not compatible with group finder, it doesn't matter if you nerf bosses or mobs or even turn the entire ops into a childs playground someone will end up leaving halfway through for whatever reason and that creates a void that's difficult to fill especially after your group has done the first few bosses.

There is some truth to this in that back-filling is basically impossible to do.

 

While there is the argument of joining a guild you shouldn't be penalised for not

You're not being penalized for not joining a guild. You're just not getting the advantages of being in a guild. Example, they're giving guild members a +5% bonus exp. They're not penalizing a guildless person by giving them -5%. You need to understand the difference between reward and penalty.

I've left every guild I've joined due to the fact they are not compatible with when I want to play the game and when I don't, to play outside that turns this into an unpaid job rather than a game, I shouldn't have to play the game when I'm "told" or miss out on content each week.

And here's where I have the real problem with your post. The "cater to me" attitude. Think of this game like joining a sports league. It's non-professional. Just for fun. The winner gets a trophy at the end. You have to pay your league fees and the only way to compete is to be a part of a team. Tell me, if you didn't show up for practice on scheduled nights and generally just came and went when you felt like it, do you expect the team to let you play when you do show up on game day? I hope not because you're kidding yourself if you think that the rest of the team needs to put up with your behavior because you don't understand that the group is greater than any one individual that makes it up. You try being a guild leader and having 7 other people like you who come and go as they please. Good luck with ever getting one night of actual raid attempts when you're rolling the dice on guild raid attendance on any given day that you happen to be on.

The benefits of not having lockouts for story modes clearly outweigh the the disadvantages of it... in fact what are the disadvantages?

Already mentioned. A group could use Group Finder with no lockout and go from no Ark gear to full Ark gear in 16 runs. The fact that SM's are super easy and fast you could do 8 runs of each S&M and TFB within a week and have 8 members fully geared. The fact that SM's currently provide gear progression means it needs to gated.

[Wallner]

Why does the progression need to be gated?

[Lostpenguins]

Why does the progression need to be gated?

If you didn't, you have a groups who would burn through content too fast. They'd do everything they needed to do in one month, and then just unsub for 3-4 months while they wait for the next operation. That's not good business practice.

 

Of course, I like when gated content required you to get gear from the next raid's early bosses to down content from the last bosses. So for the first week you were maybe kiling the first boss. Week 2, you added another 1-2 bosses... and the final boss you were killing 2-3 months into the raid. That was fun w/out doing this forced gating thing.

 

However, the old system alienated new players who would be so far beyond the gear curve or guilds that started 2-3 months later were guaranteed not to finish for another 2-3 months. And that made a lot of casuals not happy. This is a compromise between the two sides.

[XuShaBi]

Mkay then it's a strangely large number of people who have it ticked, but declines the moment the op matching completes (where they can see that bosses are downed).

 

That tends to happen when they see the boss for the weekly is down. Many ticked it hoping to join op-in-progress group still on its way to the weekly boss.

[Wallner]

Yeah I understand it from a business perspective, you don't sell something to a customer if you're not sure they'll come back for more.

 

But I don't know, I'm not sure I'd unsub just because I got the best gear available. But I guess the people who's just interested in gear (and thinks that they've "beaten" the game) would.

[Lostpenguins]

Yeah I understand it from a business perspective, you don't sell something to a customer if you're not sure they'll come back for more.

 

But I don't know, I'm not sure I'd unsub just because I got the best gear available. But I guess the people who's just interested in gear (and thinks that they've "beaten" the game) would.

It's typical that after a while of farming guilds seeing their active attendance drop until the next content comes out. Gating slows down that eventual process. If I had all of my gear BiS and it was going to be 3-4 months before the next operation came out, I would unsub until them as I'd be paying $15 a month to play a game I wouldn't be.

[Seireeni]

It's typical that after a while of farming guilds seeing their active attendance drop until the next content comes out. Gating slows down that eventual process. If I had all of my gear BiS and it was going to be 3-4 months before the next operation came out, I would unsub until them as I'd be paying $15 a month to play a game I wouldn't be.

 

You probably won't get your gear BiS by running only story mode ops, would you?

[Lostpenguins]

You probably won't get your gear BiS by running only story mode ops, would you?

No, but it's still progression gear and people would be able to get BiS from SM's in one week (or less) if they really wanted to push it. Operations have gear upgrades, hence they're gated.

[Seireeni]

No, but it's still progression gear and people would be able to get BiS from SM's in one week (or less) if they really wanted to push it. Operations have gear upgrades, hence they're gated.

 

It's a little bit too gated to my taste when I can do 1-2 bosses per operation per week because of a wipe/disconnect/whatever. But well, I always liked pvp better anyway.

[Lostpenguins]

It's a little bit too gated to my taste when I can do 1-2 bosses per operation per week because of a wipe/disconnect/whatever. But well, I always liked pvp better anyway.

No, I agree that the problem is with back-filling. The solution the OP presented is not a good one.

[Khevar]

Is the problem that if you have a lockout on boss #1 and boss #2 of an operation, you are unable to queue for it again?

[partylikeaturtle]

Let me break it down for you:

This still defeats the purpose of gated progression. If you could just keep que'ing over and over and over again, you'd have some diehards who could possibly be fully geared in a few days as they just kept que'ing over and over again.

 

I don't understand where you came up with this logic at all. The OP clearly said that you can only receive gear from each boss ONCE per week, you even just quoted the sentence stating this idea. Certainly you could queue over and over again and do EC 25 times in one week, but you could still receive max. 4 pieces of gear from doing that - 1 from each boss the first time you did that boss (and you're obviously not even guaranteed a piece of gear from any of those 4 chances). That is exactly the same as it is now.

Edited April 29, 2013 by partylikeaturtle

[Seireeni]

Is the problem that if you have a lockout on boss #1 and boss #2 of an operation, you are unable to queue for it again?

 

You can queue for it, you just most likely don't get a pop, unless you have time to wait all day. Because other people don't want to start from the middle.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

Let me break it down for you:

This still defeats the purpose of gated progression. If you could just keep que'ing over and over and over again, you'd have some diehards who could possibly be fully geared in a few days as they just kept que'ing over and over again. The gear from SM Ops is still progression gear so, no, it shouldn't just be open to this sort of system.

There is some truth to this in that back-filling is basically impossible to do.

 

If you read a few of my posts you would see I had a solution, including locking loot based on attendance once the boss is down not need/greed i.e. a pass would still lock it. Also another suggestion is to have some background legacy check that checks all players in game that might have looted with someones legacy alt that's not in game. That should solve the switch alts issue and guilds would have to switch to completely separate alts to the ones they looted in order to loot again.

 

You're not being penalized for not joining a guild. You're just not getting the advantages of being in a guild. Example, they're giving guild members a +5% bonus exp. They're not penalizing a guildless person by giving them -5%. You need to understand the difference between reward and penalty.

 

Penalty definition: "The disadvantage or painful consequences resulting from an action or condition"

 

The condition being not in a guild or regular playing group, the disadvantage being the lockout.

 

And here's where I have the real problem with your post. The "cater to me" attitude. Think of this game like joining a sports league. It's non-professional. Just for fun. The winner gets a trophy at the end. You have to pay your league fees and the only way to compete is to be a part of a team. Tell me, if you didn't show up for practice on scheduled nights and generally just came and went when you felt like it, do you expect the team to let you play when you do show up on game day? I hope not because you're kidding yourself if you think that the rest of the team needs to put up with your behavior because you don't understand that the group is greater than any one individual that makes it up. You try being a guild leader and having 7 other people like you who come and go as they please. Good luck with ever getting one night of actual raid attempts when you're rolling the dice on guild raid attendance on any given day that you happen to be on.

 

Here we go, call me selfish for preferring to play casually rather than not playing in a guild? Don't you even understand the difference between being selfish and selfless? I actually made a selfless decision not to play in a guild due to the fact it wouldn't be fair for me to ask for raid times and not turn up. Maybe if you stopped being selfish yourself about the effects of this suggested change would have on your guild and stopped chucking mud in order to divert attention from the topic in question rather than bash how I prefer to raid then maybe you'd see past it.

 

Already mentioned. A group could use Group Finder with no lockout and go from no Ark gear to full Ark gear in 16 runs. The fact that SM's are super easy and fast you could do 8 runs of each S&M and TFB within a week and have 8 members fully geared. The fact that SM's currently provide gear progression means it needs to gated.

 

I already mentioned this in the first bit, it would take 16 runs with the changes I first suggested and virtually unviable if there was a legacy solution. Thing is though story modes aren't really progression content, it's not like you take weeks to clear them and the only thing that doesn't drop in flashpoints is the set bonus, the main hand and the odd relic. With the GTN and flashpoints you can literally gear yourself up to full 69's and jump into a hard mode in a day.

 

I think if you could be more honest I think you're more worried about the effects it would have on your guild, after all if I was a new recruit to it and I saw ops had no lockout I'd probably run a mile from a DKP system...

[Pietrastor]

Agree. Especially considering the number of bosses/length of the Ops, in particular when people are still learning. Some will simply leave/have to leave (RL issues may appear, far more important than Ops). These lockouts don't help anyone.

[Ishigum]

I agree. This will strengthen the community and bonds within guilds. There are so many quitters who quit after the weekly and I can never clear these OPS because of people who want full runs. I don't care about the loot. I would love to cultivate an environment of people helping one another instead of the selfishness that the current model promotes.