1v1 healer vs. dps

[sirullrich]

I heal and most people will not be able to kill me 1v1. From 1.4 to 2.0 never had problems dying. But I see all these threads on healers being too OP and that dps should be able to win a 1v1 against a healer all the time. What is the pvp community say about this. I know in rateds we send 2 people to mess with one healer or send one guy just to harass a healer, but not kill. We know in rateds it's almost impossible to kill good healers with only one person.

[Baedwulf]

Should be close... as should a 1v1 vs a tank... unfortunately it takes 2 and a half hours to duel a healer or tank.

 

I feel like it should be and IS close (skill pending)

 

Of course with the short TTK I feel like it's easier to burst down healers and catch em off guard now. We've been slacking on the rated scene though during the rebuild so hard to say against a fully competent team. Of course I run into some pre-mades from the ranked scene in regs but not the same thing obviously.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Baedwulf

[DimeStax]

It's not impossible, just very time consuming, and given the speed of communication and coordination in RWZs the healer will have reinforcements before you can kill them (assuming they have teammates still alive). Edited April 26, 2013 by DimeStax

[Astarica]

This question is irrelevent. As the healer you already lost the moment this battle happens because the attacker's team can easily do without one DPS while your team cannot function well missing one of its healers. Unless you're solo defending as a healer (which means your team has lost the game before this battle even took place) the outcome of this battle is already decided. No matter who actually won this fight, the team with the healer in the 1on1 would've lost decisively somewhere else. Edited April 26, 2013 by Astarica

[sirullrich]

This question is irrelevent. As the healer you already lost the moment this battle happens because the attacker's team can easily do without one DPS while your team cannot function well missing one of its healers. Unless you're solo defending as a healer (which means your team has lost the game before this battle even took place) the outcome of this battle is already decided. No matter who actually won this fight, the team with the healer in the 1on1 would've lost decisively somewhere else.

 

Sorry what meant was just in any situation. Not just for rateds. Should a dps be able to wipe the floor against a healer 1v1. I say no, but lot's of dps feel that it should be easy to kill a healer 1v1.

[Azarai]

Sorry what meant was just in any situation. Not just for rateds. Should a dps be able to wipe the floor against a healer 1v1. I say no, but lot's of dps feel that it should be easy to kill a healer 1v1.

 

I destroy healers on my concealment operative until force barrier gets popped...

 

If they get peels/reinforcements at that point I slink away but if they don't bother, I'll drop an orbital strike on your head and stun you when you try to run away. Trust me, nobody, not even a healer, is going to survive 2-3 ticks in an Orbital along with the dps I'll be doing while you stand in it. A lot of people are just used to being able to kill healers without the use of interrupts and cd's. You can tell the people who weren't players prior to 1.2 when heals were absolutely overpowered and a bad use of an interrupt was the difference between a healer MAYBE dying and them /LOL you as you tickle them with your pathetic dps that couldn't keep up with their healing.

 

It can still be time consuming to kill a healer, and especially hard if the healer is skilled but it's not impossible. Killing a tank 1 vs 1 tho? **** that noise

[Astarica]

Sorry what meant was just in any situation. Not just for rateds. Should a dps be able to wipe the floor against a healer 1v1. I say no, but lot's of dps feel that it should be easy to kill a healer 1v1.

 

Well it goes both ways, if DPS can never beat a healer 1on1 why bring a DPS instead of a healer?

 

I think the current balance is okay. The average healer will usually win against the average DPS, but winning this fight puts his team at a huge strategic disadvantage because he is removed from the overall battle while he's trying to beat the DPS, especially on a map like Alderaan where dying is often beneficial (far quicker to die and take a side speeder then actually running there).

 

A great DPS will usually win against a great healer after an extremely long time, but at that level you're better off not winning this fight, as keeping a healer locked down in the middle of nowhere is far more beneficial than killing him.

[sirullrich]

I destroy healers on my concealment operative until force barrier gets popped...

 

If they get peels/reinforcements at that point I slink away but if they don't bother, I'll drop an orbital strike on your head and stun you when you try to run away. Trust me, nobody, not even a healer, is going to survive 2-3 ticks in an Orbital along with the dps I'll be doing while you stand in it. A lot of people are just used to being able to kill healers without the use of interrupts and cd's. You can tell the people who weren't players prior to 1.2 when heals were absolutely overpowered and a bad use of an interrupt was the difference between a healer MAYBE dying and them /LOL you as you tickle them with your pathetic dps that couldn't keep up with their healing.

 

It can still be time consuming to kill a healer, and especially hard if the healer is skilled but it's not impossible. Killing a tank 1 vs 1 tho? **** that noise

 

Exactly!! I am not saying it is not possible, but what I am saying is if the 2 go 1v1 the dps should not be able to just kill a healer instantly. DPS need to stop crying about not being able to kill a healer with 3 hits.

[Tanshui]

Sorry what meant was just in any situation. Not just for rateds. Should a dps be able to wipe the floor against a healer 1v1. I say no, but lot's of dps feel that it should be easy to kill a healer 1v1.

 

I know I'm arguing with you on another thread - but in case it's not clear I don't think it should be easy to *kill* a healer 1v1, when that situation does come up. But it should be relatively easy after all cooldowns are burnt to force a retreat.

 

To be more specific - I think a good dps healer should wipe the floor against a bad healer. Why not? That's the definition of good vs bad, and then great vs good, etc. You probably don't fear most DPS. But that might not be because Healer shouldn't be afraid of DPS, it's you're making good use of your class's skillset and your awareness/craftiness as a player. Especially in normal. Especially when big cooldowns are down.

 

In the current meta, I consider it a victory when I can contain a non-commando healer. Maybe I can't kill him, but he's not pumping out an obscene amount of healing into his team when it counts. The healer is still helping his team, but I'm helping my team by cutting into his effectiveness. The healer doesn't have to die.

 

But if one dps can't contribute to meaningfully cutting down a healer's effectiveness (either via killing or forcing a retreat) - then why have a dps. Just have tanks and healers and tanks that can do more damage, healers that can tank a bit more, etc.

[Kontraz]

Sorry what meant was just in any situation. Not just for rateds. Should a dps be able to wipe the floor against a healer 1v1. I say no, but lot's of dps feel that it should be easy to kill a healer 1v1.

 

As a dps, I feel my role shouldn't be to necessarily kill the healer, but shut them down so they are only healing themselves, which buys my team the time they need to do whatever

[Azarai]

Exactly!! I am not saying it is not possible, but what I am saying is if the 2 go 1v1 the dps should not be able to just kill a healer instantly. DPS need to stop crying about not being able to kill a healer with 3 hits.

 

Bads will be bads and I've come to the realization that people will complain and moan up to the point that their class can use 'Orbital Nuke' on an entire WZ on a 6 sec cooldown that wipes out everybody, including their own teammates, and puts a healing debuff on all healers for the next hour that drops their heals down by 99%. I just laugh to myself when I see people like that, take a note as to who they are in game, and if I see them harass the hell out of them on my operative.

[Astarica]

As a dps, I feel my role shouldn't be to necessarily kill the healer, but shut them down so they are only healing themselves, which buys my team the time they need to do whatever

 

It's not so much as who the healer is healing but rather how much they're currently heailng. When you consider healers tend to have the 'receive extra healing', it is not even clear if you want to make them heal themselves if you can't actually kill them. If the healer doesn't actually die and gets say +10% healing received (don't think it's that high, but using it as an example), then basically his heals are 10% more effective on himself than anyone else, so why wouldn't he want to heal himself?

 

When you attack a healer you get these benefits:

 

1. Some of his heals will be interrupted.

2. Some of his heals will cast slower, some of his channeled heals will tick for less due to pushback (minor, but still have an impact).

3. He will usually be forced to run away and if they're not an Op, they won't be doing much healing while running. Even for an Op, they'd still prefer to be able to stand still to cast their 2 bigger heals, even given their considerable ability to heal on the run.

 

The person he's healing isn't that important if you're not able to kill that guy.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Astarica

[sirullrich]

I know I'm arguing with you on another thread - but in case it's not clear I don't think it should be easy to *kill* a healer 1v1, when that situation does come up. But it should be relatively easy after all cooldowns are burnt to force a retreat.

 

To be more specific - I think a good dps healer should wipe the floor against a bad healer. Why not? That's the definition of good vs bad, and then great vs good, etc. You probably don't fear most DPS. But that might not be because Healer shouldn't be afraid of DPS, it's you're making good use of your class's skillset and your awareness/craftiness as a player. Especially in normal. Especially when big cooldowns are down.

 

In the current meta, I consider it a victory when I can contain a non-commando healer. Maybe I can't kill him, but he's not pumping out an obscene amount of healing into his team when it counts. The healer is still helping his team, but I'm helping my team by cutting into his effectiveness. The healer doesn't have to die.

 

But if one dps can't contribute to meaningfully cutting down a healer's effectiveness (either via killing or forcing a retreat) - then why have a dps. Just have tanks and healers and tanks that can do more damage, healers that can tank a bit more, etc.

 

The balance is good imo. tanks are viable now which makes it harder to kill healers. dps put out more burst while healers also put out more burst. We need dps even if healers and tanks are strong. It's harder to kill because it is more balanced and if we only had tanks and healers the games will never end.

[Kontraz]

It's not so much as who the healer is healing but rather how much they're currently heailng. When you consider healers tend to have the 'receive extra healing', it is not even clear if you want to make them heal themselves if you can't actually kill them. If the healer doesn't actually die and gets say +10% healing received (don't think it's that high, but using it as an example), then basically his heals are 10% more effective on himself than anyone else, so why wouldn't he want to heal himself?

 

When you attack a healer you get these benefits:

 

1. Some of his heals will be interrupted.

2. Some of his heals will cast slower, some of his channeled heals will tick for less due to pushback (minor, but still have an impact).

3. He will usually be forced to run away and if they're not an Op, they won't be doing much healing while running. Even for an Op, they'd still prefer to be able to stand still to cast their 2 bigger heals, even given their considerable ability to heal on the run.

 

The person he's healing isn't that important if you're not able to kill that guy.

 

I think you missed my point. It doesn't matter if I kill the healer. If the healer has to spend 100% of the match focused on keeping himself alive, the rest of my team can clean up the rest. Being short 1 dps (due to being tied up with said healer) won't make or break the team most likely, while the other team being down a healer (due to having to focus on only keeping themselves alive) can decimate their team

[sirullrich]

I think you missed my point. It doesn't matter if I kill the healer. If the healer has to spend 100% of the match focused on keeping himself alive, the rest of my team can clean up the rest. Being short 1 dps (due to being tied up with said healer) won't make or break the team most likely, while the other team being down a healer (due to having to focus on only keeping themselves alive) can decimate their team

 

Yup and I have the hardest time when a fking op jumps me and I have no cooldowns.

[Astarica]

The balance is good imo. tanks are viable now which makes it harder to kill healers. dps put out more burst while healers also put out more burst. We need dps even if healers and tanks are strong. It's harder to kill because it is more balanced and if we only had tanks and healers the games will never end.

 

I think the current game is a bit of a snoozefest whenever you've at least 2 healers on each side though. That doesn't mean you can't win against such a team (as long as you've one healer) but I had a game in Alderaan that was just two defense heavy teams and at the end the DPS on both sides just stopped attacking and had a nice chat instead because nobody was ever dying anyway. I think we killed their healers twice and they killed our healer zero times, so it's not that DPS doesn't matter (ours was good enough to get the kills to secure the lead), but I'd prefer not every game that features at least two healers on each team turn into pure attrition battles. It's also unfair to PUG teams who really don't understand how to attack a defensive team. Here's a perfect example of one of the games on my alt on Republic (which proves Empire has healers). In Novare Coast, the enemy has 3 healers. I know that this means their guys likely won't die but they have 3 less guys to cap compared to us (healers just do not stop healing to cap, while DPS can do so relatively safely), so we eventually cap south. At this point, our natural (west) was uncapped, so I went to cap it. Then 3 guys (tank + DPS + healer) attacked west and killed me and capped west. The enemy team never lost another person let alone a node after this point.

 

Now it's easy to say 'see healers are overpowered', but if they're so overpowered, why did they attack a bad position (west) instead of south? Because they can't actually kill our guys either, and they actually need 3 guys to even take out a single defender quickly. But 3 people do not travel stealthily, so it should be rather obvious 3 guys are running to west, so that should be intercepted easily. Of course PUGs being PUGs, they do not do that and we lose. But the reason we lost is that our team somehow didn't see 3 guys running to west unopposed against the lone defender, not because healers are overpowered. Stll, do you really expect the average PUG to know this? Not to mention this kind of style is very boring and should not be encouraged. I'm thinking something like reduce all damage done by 10% in WZ and reduce healing by 15% would keep TTK relatively the same and make attrition battles slightly less likely, though this is a pretty significant change and I don't pretend to know what will be the exact consequences for donig so.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Astarica

[Tanshui]

The balance is good imo. tanks are viable now which makes it harder to kill healers. dps put out more burst while healers also put out more burst. We need dps even if healers and tanks are strong. It's harder to kill because it is more balanced and if we only had tanks and healers the games will never end.

 

I agree - I like the current balance. I stated on another thread I don't think it's so much that Healer is overpowered, but rather it's easier to coordinate defensive combos without actually coordinating (guard/taunt/cross-heal), and that gives off the perception that Healing is OP when in reality what's overpowered is probably teamwork but there's nothing wrong with that.

 

But then you have to consider people who take the game seriously and competitively is in the minority. Serious players first ask what is wrong with what I'm doing, how can I better kill the healer. For others, let's just say it's easier to cry 'HEALER IS OP ****' than to examine what they are doing wrong. And when casual-ish players play in normal where there's little teamwork and therefore Heals-Dominate, well that's why we have this outrage on the forums.

 

(I play both a healer and dps, so it's not like I have a vested interest in the matter)

[Astarica]

I think you missed my point. It doesn't matter if I kill the healer. If the healer has to spend 100% of the match focused on keeping himself alive, the rest of my team can clean up the rest. Being short 1 dps (due to being tied up with said healer) won't make or break the team most likely, while the other team being down a healer (due to having to focus on only keeping themselves alive) can decimate their team

 

Unless the fight takes place in an isolated area away from rest of his team, 1 DPS is never going to stop the healer from healing the rest of his team unless that healer is just terrible. You can never stop a Commando from dropping a Kolto Missile/Kolto Shell, or an Op doing Recuperative Nanotech unless you physically forced them to retreat away from the battle. Even Sage can get off Salvation rather easily (in a 1on1 it's too risky to interrupt that as that means Deliverance is going to be the next spell to be cast for sure). You have to force the healer to retreat. Just making him heal himself is not enough.

[Baedwulf]

I agree - I like the current balance. I stated on another thread I don't think it's so much that Healer is overpowered, but rather it's easier to coordinate defensive combos without actually coordinating (guard/taunt/cross-heal), and that gives off the perception that Healing is OP when in reality what's overpowered is probably teamwork but there's nothing wrong with that.

 

But then you have to consider people who take the game seriously and competitively is in the minority. Serious players first ask what is wrong with what I'm doing, how can I better kill the healer. For others, let's just say it's easier to cry 'HEALER IS OP ****' than to examine what they are doing wrong. And when casual-ish players play in normal where there's little teamwork and therefore Heals-Dominate, well that's why we have this outrage on the forums.

 

(I play both a healer and dps, so it's not like I have a vested interest in the matter)

 

ZOMG....

 

 

Logic....

 

[Volxen]

Sorry what meant was just in any situation. Not just for rateds. Should a dps be able to wipe the floor against a healer 1v1. I say no, but lot's of dps feel that it should be easy to kill a healer 1v1.

 

The answer is unequivocally no, one DPS should not be able to easily kill a healer. It should be obvious that if that were the case then healing would be completely pointless. However, one melee DPSer (especially a stealther) can very easily put enough pressure on a single healer and take him out of the fight by forcing him to run away and/or heal himself. Of course, those with tunnel vision that only care about mindlessly DPSing will insist that they should be able to easily kill a lone healer (or 2, or 3...) all on their own.

[sirullrich]

The answer is unequivocally no, one DPS should not be able to easily kill a healer. It should be obvious that if that were the case then healing would be completely pointless. However, one melee DPSer (especially a stealther) can very easily put enough pressure on a single healer and take him out of the fight by forcing him to run away and/or heal himself. Of course, those with tunnel vision that only care about mindlessly DPSing will insist that they should be able to easily kill a lone healer (or 2, or 3...) all on their own.

 

Yup like I said I hate ops who jump me.

[Seireeni]

It should be possible, but it shouldn't be easy. As in all pvp, it should come down to the skill level (and maybe gear/class limitations). Personally, at least in lowbie (been leveling my scoundrel lately), I haven't found it impossible to kill healers alone. If the healer is skilled, it's hard, and I might have to give it up in order to stay near the objectives, but it's not impossible. Sure, I've met some healers that are impossible to solo kill for me, but I think it's more to do with my skill level than anything else. They're just better players than me and I accept that.

[sirullrich]

It should be possible, but it shouldn't be easy. As in all pvp, it should come down to the skill level (and maybe gear/class limitations). Personally, at least in lowbie (been leveling my scoundrel lately), I haven't found it impossible to kill healers alone. If the healer is skilled, it's hard, and I might have to give it up in order to stay near the objectives, but it's not impossible. Sure, I've met some healers that are impossible to solo kill for me, but I think it's more to do with my skill level than anything else. They're just better players than me and I accept that.

 

But with this attitude you can get better. You know what you need to work on and get better at. That's the mentality a pvper should have. I know they are better than me now, but next time it will be different. We learn from our mistakes and use what we learned next time around. You are only a lowbie now, but once you understand your class you will be good.

[dufox]

take a step back and realize what your saying when you talking about 1v1 between dps vs healer.

 

if 1 dps and 1 healer have a duel (equally geared), the dps should only win if the healer does something wrong. (forgets to cure, runs out of places to LOS, letting his hp get to low before he start trying to heal and get cc'd ect)

 

if 1 dps could kill a healer without having to work his *** off then 1 healer would be absolutely worthless in an 8 v 8 situation.

how many times do you die from 1 person attacking you?

if the answer is alot then we can start a whole new thread on why you need to be bonked on the head^^

Edited April 27, 2013 by dufox

[Asvarduil]

Sorry what meant was just in any situation. Not just for rateds. Should a dps be able to wipe the floor against a healer 1v1. I say no, but lot's of dps feel that it should be easy to kill a healer 1v1.

 

I agree with what you're saying, but also with what Astarica is saying - if you're a healer and your team has abandoned you, your team kind of deserves that loss.