open letter to all who oppose bolster...

[Ch_Zero]

I don't hate the idea behind Bolster.

 

it is just flawed and doesn't work properly.

 

Swapping mods has become a gamble, and you're unsure of what kind of stats you get going into warzones.

 

People do exploit this currently, and it's become a problem.

 

So unless you have unlimited time for mod swapping and trial and error, I don't think they should leave it in.

[Arutar]

You still get the best pvp gear from pvp.

 

This is simply not true, at least as far as partisan pvp gear is concerned.

[Devlonir]

This is simply not true, at least as far as partisan pvp gear is concerned.

 

But Conqueror is endgame PVP gear, Partisan is entry level reward you need for most slots to get Conqueror. So it is still true. You can only get Conqueror through PVP.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Devlonir

[Livein]

Yes... lvl 55 bolster is great! I mean, it's genius! I love it so much that I have proposal. Why we confine this great mechanic to PvP alone? Bioware, bolster us in ops! We PvP'ers could use some better stats there! Wait... another great idea. Why don't we all just normalise gear so everybody's equal? Wouldn't that be great? Starting every match on completely equal footing, no matter how long you gear-grind.

 

Oh wait, forget it. There is actually game that does it already.

It's called Starcraft II...

[TimeBandit_Debel]

In my opinion the reward should be the prestige of better looking gear, not an advantage in the fight.

But then I don't PvP for the rewards either. If that was the only reason to PvP then why bother once you have the gear?

 

If you think that prestige or better looking gear should be the only reward and everyone who enters wz should have the same stats. Then why dont you go play GW2. I left gw because of that. There was no point in playing pvp, because in the end effectively i get nothing for my effort. So bolster needs to be removed at lvl 55 and be the way it used to be b4 2.0. Yes recruits will be owned by fully min maxed players. But then again those min maxed players have worked their asses off to get the gear they have.

Edited April 25, 2013 by TimeBandit_Debel

[SomeJagoff]

IF you are a real PvPer, or if you have any balls whatever, you should be not only supporting this, but begging for it, praying for it, and doing everything humanly possible to help it work.

 

"Please Bioware, PLEASE give me a system where I don't need to spend time gearing up, even though this is an mmo and even though basically every popular multiplayer game requires you to invest time into the game to unlock perks/gear/weapons/etc.!!"

 

Actually, Bolster IS a fantastic idea, it should be spread to PVE as well, I want to clear HM 16M S&V wearing my questing greens. Also spread it to Space as well, so that we can just enjoy shooting stuff instead of spending comms/cartel coins/credits on ship parts.

 

The REAL PvEers, the ones with balls etc, should be begging to display their skill of being able to clear OPs/Heroic Space Missions based on mechanics alone, no more gear checks.

 

You agree with this, right Floplag? I mean, if it's a good idea for PVP, it's also a good idea for PVE, right? You're not gonna be one of those guys who has double standards and insists that clearing pve content should be a gear grind, but pvp should be about "skill," right?

 

If not, please present an in depth argument why PVE gear should be a grind and a gear check, but PVP should not be a grind or a gear check.

Edited April 25, 2013 by SomeJagoff

[Ch_Zero]

Better yet, adding to the bolster concept i think every warzone should end in a tie, because it gives players with skill an unfair advantage.

 

Everyone leaves a winner!

 

 

/clap

[Arutar]

But Conqueror is endgame PVP gear, Partisan is entry level reward you need for most slots to get Conqueror. So it is still true. You can only get Conqueror through PVP.

 

Nowhere did I read that with the new bolster they want to make:

 

Partisan </= PVE gear < Conquerer

 

I always unsterstood their intention as follows:

 

PVE gear (boosted to the old recruit lvl) < Partisan </= Top lvl PVE gear < Conquerer

 

And this ist not the way things wotk atm.

[Atramar]

If gear doesn't matter why is it the reward?

 

reward=gear

gear=doesn't matter

reward=doesn't matter

 

you still get your carrot.

what you don't get, is poorly equipped recruit geared players with every single stat lower that you can 'pown' using 2-3 gcd, and pve geared players who will generate 'new ultimate record single hit damage'.

by your 'hardcore pvp grind' you (and me for fact, as i do more pvp then pve) get that better equipment then fresh 55's and pve players have, it's just less obvius and difference is smaller then before.

to sum up.

reward = gear

gear = smaller difference

smaller difference = more people start pvp and play with specs

above = better pvp expierience for all.

 

Nowhere did I read that with the new bolster they want to make:

 

Partisan </= PVE gear < Conquerer

 

I always unsterstood their intention as follows:

 

PVE gear (boosted to the old recruit lvl) < Partisan </= Top lvl PVE gear < Conquerer

 

And this ist not the way things wotk atm.

 

yeah, system needs tweaks (which was repeated over and over, and we all know that), but idea is good.

 

on a side note, to all who says that gear should matter more and at same time say 'pve gear should not be better then pvp gear' , here is an idea. go march up top pve gear so you are better then people who 'just' pvp. problem solved - you have your gear advantage, and you worked hard for it

Edited April 25, 2013 by Atramar

[Helig]

 

You agree with this, right Floplag? I mean, if it's a good idea for PVP, it's also a good idea for PVE, right? You're not gonna be one of those guys who has double standards and insists that clearing pve content should be a gear grind, but pvp should be about "skill," right?

 

If not, please present an in depth argument why PVE gear should be a grind and a gear check, but PVP should not be a grind or a gear check.

Thing is, in PvP you compete against other players. In PvE, you fight encounters and NPCs. In PvE, you choose the instance of the level of difficulty you prefer -your playing field. In PvP, difficulty is determined by other players, and you do *not* get to choose your playing field (aside, arguably, rateds).

 

You don't go doing top-tier nightmare raids with entry-level gear. When you start to PvE, you do easy Operations in starting gear, setting you up and letting you learn the ropes. But you essentially have nightmare level difficulty forced on you if you are undergeared in PvP. Is guaranteed to turn away more than a few newcomers. Bolster alleviates that and helps to mitigate the overwhelming experience of getting roflstomped by better geared individuals. And it's a lot easier for new PvPers to learn the basics when you are not forced in situations when you get overwhelmed regardless of what you do.

 

I consider myself an advanced player, and I geared a DPS Commando pre-50 relatively recently. No pre-ground comms (aside normals cap for mainhand). Damage output was underwhelming, damage input was massive. I minded positioning and target control, and contributed well, but the moment I got targetted and all of my escape options were exhausted, I got obliterated. Now imagine a relative freshman who doesn't know maps a whole lot, and doesn't have the situational awareness of a more experienced player - he'll spend more time running from medcenters more often than actually fighting.

 

The character's strength only started showing when I got WH set minus implant/ear/bracers. Gameplay changed drastically. I started killing WH Marauders (who were, admittedly, not very good) 1v1 because I could take and deal significantly more damage, and thus, I had time to use a lot more skills for my rotations to fully unfold and my defensive mechanisms to have better effect.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Helig

[Arutar]

 

yeah, system needs tweaks (which was repeated over and over, and we all know that), but idea is good.

 

 

How many more "tweaks" do you think we need?

 

Because judging from the fact that all "tweaks" since the latest PTS patch still left lots of room for more serious "tweaking" I am starting to wonder if the team actually has the ressources/competence to make this idea work at all.

 

Also, I´d rather would see these resources spent on actual new pvp content and not on trying to "tweak" a system which so far only looked good on paper over and over again.

[DarkPharohEclip]

You still get the best pvp gear from pvp. So gear does still matter. It merely matters less.

 

And any situation where you can get better gear than conqueror from non PVP actions is already being defined by Bioware as bugs in the system, so the action is still true:

Do PVP, get the best PVP gear. Just not good enough to roflstomp noobs so much they can't even get out of their spawns in Novare Coast.

 

If you ever got ROFLSTOMPED in this game pre 2.0 you truely are a noob. Not in the sense of a new player, but just a **** player that has no idea how to play the game..... I never was roflstomped , even with recruit gear..... L2p issue here I think, and you saying that you get more expertise with pvp gear, not true anymore.. Seems like the less expertise you take into the warzone the more you will get.

[DarkPharohEclip]

In my opinion the reward should be the prestige of better looking gear, not an advantage in the fight.

But then I don't PvP for the rewards either. If that was the only reason to PvP then why bother once you have the gear?

 

And what gear would that be , since nobody wants the **** looking gear that bioware keeps coming out with? HOw would that be a reward when most of us just get different gear off the CM or the adaptive armor off the GTN and re-modd it.

 

 

What is the reward in that? Whatever you say.. Doesn't change the fact that this bolster system is flawed beyond belief and being exploited left and right and the pvper is the one getting screwed while everyone else is bolster to the ****.

[Atramar]

How many more "tweaks" do you think we need?

 

Because judging from the fact that all "tweaks" since the latest PTS patch still left lots of room for more serious "tweaking" I am starting to wonder if the team actually has the ressources/competence to make this idea work at all.

 

Also, I´d rather would see these resources spent on actual new pvp content and not on trying to "tweak" a system which so far only looked good on paper over and over again.

 

I bet they only set one person for it , so not much recources are wasted

 

I hope they do....maybe they got rushed, and worked under stress... as I love the idea... would be shame if it went to trash because of bad project design and coding...

[Arutar]

I bet they only set one person for it , so not much recources are wasted

 

Yeah, thats what my actual guess (and hope) is.

 

Like:

 

"Guys, we really need to finish this great new PVP content in time. Cant wait to tell the PVP community about it. Meanwhile, let Jerry the intern fix the Bolster issue before 2.0 goes live, should be only a few tweaks, I guess. ..Jerry, what are you doing with the glue... again!?"

Edited April 25, 2013 by Arutar

[Morpurgo]

I oppose because it's broken and they most likely drag this fixing out to months if not even years, where they say that it's fixed after every new patch but evidence always to contrary.

There is no reason at all to have bolster at 55.

[Liryc]

The funniest thing about bolster is that it creates wider gear gaps than the old system had. I've seen warzones where people have nearly 10k more HP than others on the team, and expertise gaps as wide as 700+ (as I recall the gap from recruit to EWH was about 400?) Anyone who thinks bolster is even remotely putting everyone on equal footing should start inspecting their teammates in every warzone.

 

THIS!

 

After adding 4 or 5 partisan pieces to my useless EWH gear my exp dropped to 1400! Others in full PVE gear had 2018 exp with huge advantage of primary/ secondary stats.

[Briljin]

In my opinion the reward should be the prestige of better looking gear, not an advantage in the fight.

 

And lets continue our fight for independence from the evils of gear! Let us expend the bolster system to all content, why stop such an amazing concept from enhancing and balancing things like instances and raids?!? We should make all gear nothing more than cosmetic features, only then can we raid without the advantages of gear and instead depend upon our skill.

 

If you want to play barbie PvP, GW II is just around the corner...

[Liryc]

No there isn't. But you just look at main stats getting 100 more and Expertise being 50 less and think that is an unfair advantage. While doing simple math, or even just checking what 100 more main stat does vs 50 less expertise, you will see that the gear gap is a lot smaller.

 

But go ahead, stare yourself blind on endurance and main stats. I'll enjoy killing you as soon as I get my next few pieces of Conqueror gear.

 

read my post above. bolster does not work properly if you are mix and matched with partisan/conqueror and EWH.

 

There is a very large bolster induced gear gap for players mid pvp progression. This will surely get resolved once i'm full partisan/conqueror, but until then my exp is much lower.

 

currently my exp in WZ is 1708. Gear is partisan/conqueror with exception of 1 relic, 2 implants, chest and offhand are all EWH. PVE guy rolls in with ~1950 exp. Seems to be working properly eh?

[Aetideus]

read my post above. bolster does not work properly if you are mix and matched with partisan/conqueror and EWH.

 

There is a very large bolster induced gear gap for players mid pvp progression. This will surely get resolved once i'm full partisan/conqueror, but until then my exp is much lower.

 

currently my exp in WZ is 1708. Gear is partisan/conqueror with exception of 1 relic, 2 implants, chest and offhand are all EWH. PVE guy rolls in with ~1950 exp. Seems to be working properly eh?

 

It is not and there should be guidelines. Check your gear. You must not have mixed items. Remove ewh relics. You ll get more Exp. It is Bioware's irresponsibility that troubles more, to release a problematic system.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Aetideus

[Rendolphe]

Bolster is in theory a good thing.

 

In pratice it's a real big piece of crap because a lot of people exploit it to get better stats through gear and augment glitch.

 

Once they will fix their bolster and work 100% then I will accept it and support it. I'm not paying to test a feature that is bugged since the release of this expansion.

 

It's kinda frustrating when you optimize your PvP gear and you find that you have to go out of the fleet and do PvE stuff when you do WZ 100% of your time.

[Princz]

/signed OP

 

 

It's kinda frustrating when you optimize your PvP gear and you find that you have to go out of the fleet and do PvE stuff when you do WZ 100% of your time.

 

Atleast give Arkanian gear in HMs Flashpoints ... i ll grind em ...***

Edited April 25, 2013 by Princz

[Ybini]

Its apparent its not working as intended. By now they'd do better to just say if you have x% of a tier of pvp gear set said class stats to X and make them the same across the board per class. Once you get enough of the next gear you get pooled into the next stat set.

[SomeJagoff]

Thing is, in PvP you compete against other players. In PvE, you fight encounters and NPCs. In PvE, you choose the instance of the level of difficulty you prefer -your playing field. In PvP, difficulty is determined by other players, and you do *not* get to choose your playing field (aside, arguably, rateds).

 

You don't go doing top-tier nightmare raids with entry-level gear. When you start to PvE, you do easy Operations in starting gear, setting you up and letting you learn the ropes. But you essentially have nightmare level difficulty forced on you if you are undergeared in PvP. Is guaranteed to turn away more than a few newcomers. Bolster alleviates that and helps to mitigate the overwhelming experience of getting roflstomped by better geared individuals. And it's a lot easier for new PvPers to learn the basics when you are not forced in situations when you get overwhelmed regardless of what you do.

 

I consider myself an advanced player, and I geared a DPS Commando pre-50 relatively recently. No pre-ground comms (aside normals cap for mainhand). Damage output was underwhelming, damage input was massive. I minded positioning and target control, and contributed well, but the moment I got targetted and all of my escape options were exhausted, I got obliterated. Now imagine a relative freshman who doesn't know maps a whole lot, and doesn't have the situational awareness of a more experienced player - he'll spend more time running from medcenters more often than actually fighting.

 

The character's strength only started showing when I got WH set minus implant/ear/bracers. Gameplay changed drastically. I started killing WH Marauders (who were, admittedly, not very good) 1v1 because I could take and deal significantly more damage, and thus, I had time to use a lot more skills for my rotations to fully unfold and my defensive mechanisms to have better effect.

 

Here's the problem with that, for PVE, there's 3 factors needed to down an op:

 

#1-Know the fights (Skill)

#2-Be in a guild/group that knows the fights (Skill)

#3-Gear

 

If you have all 3 of those, you WILL be sucessful.

 

PVP isn't simplistic as PVE, however, and having all 3 of those does NOT guarantee you will be sucessful/win, it simply affords you the chance to win.

 

All Bolster has done for PVP is remove #3 (kinda, if the enemy team uses the "Exploit of The Week," you're still outgeared...EVEN IF you have identical gear, but just didn't remove an item/put it back on/whatever).

 

In PVP, #1 is still a problem because people don't know the maps, objectives, how to fight other players, etc.

and #2 is still a problem for people who solo queue, i.e., pugs.

 

New players are going to pug and, by virtue of this magnificent matchmaking system that pits premades against pugs, they will get roflstomped by pugstomping guilds, with or without gear, with or without bolster, and with or without skill (regardless of your skill, you aren't going to beat an even half skilled 4man premade on voicechat by yourself).

 

Ultimately, the vast majority of forum QQ can be attributed to #2, not having a guild/group to queue up. Not surprisingly, this is why most pug ops (even EV SM at lvl 54) are still failures, because with or without gear/skill, it's still a pug.

 

A good example of fighting a premade team vs fighting a pug team is if you're fighting some pug smasher, chances are he IS easy to counter/shut down. If, however, that same smasher is running with 1-2 pocket healers and a tank guarding him...in a premade...on voicechat, chances are, you're going to have a Very hard time taking down that smasher, while he manages to destroy your team spawn after spawn.

 

The people who think bolster is a good idea look at the above smasher on a premade scenario and think that bolster is going to fix that issue. It's not. Bolster fixes #3, gear factor, not #2, premade factor.

 

People are under the misconception that premades only win because of gear gap, that is false. They win because they PVP regularly, only queue with certain classes/specs, and coordinate their actions via voicechat. To be clear, I'm not advocating for a separate queue for solo and groups. I'm simply pointing out that Bolster won't even remotely put pugs on equal footing with premades.

 

Thus, Casual PVPers are going to continue to get roflstomped by premades, lose interest, stop PVPing, then go back to PVE, where they can GEAR GRIND to keep them busy and get rewarded (GEAR). For the Hardcore PVPers, however, who will take those roflstompings in hopes of some kind of reward (GEAR), they're left with nothing.

 

Remove the gear, remove the rewards. That's the bottom line and that's what Bolster has done.

 

The REAL PVPers (premades and pugs who pvp regularly) have come to accept that if they queue in regs, they're probably going to be handicapped by the other 4-7 people on their team, whether it's a gear gap, or a skill gap, or even class gap (how many times did you cringe seeing a gunnery commando on your team pre 2.0?). That doesn't matter though, since regular queue is usually just for extra comms for gear or something to pass the time while you're waiting for a ranked pop.

 

The FAKE PVPers (pugs who rarely ever pvp) don't understand pvp and don't want to understand pvp. They queue up, get rolled by a premade, then don't queue again. Now with Bolster, these same fake PVPers think that they can get free wins, in large part because they erroneously believe that the only reason they lost before 2.0 was due to gear disparity and NOTHING ELSE. Once they get rolled WITH bolster, they'll stop queueing and go back to PVE.

 

The end result is that the Fake PVPers don't really care about PVP/don't queue any more often than they did before, but now the REAL PVPers are left with a broken, easily exploitable system that ruins their enjoyment and really gives them no rewards for their time invested in pvping.

 

Casual PVPers are always going to be casual PVPers, so it's stupid to cater to THEM specifically. It would be as stupid as catering to Casual PVEers by giving THEM a bolster inside operations, even though they'd still likely wipe and still only casually raid, while at the same time ruining operations for progression raiders. That was my point in my last post with regards to bolster inside PVE operations/flashpoints.

 

With that said, if bioware has ANY sense at all, they'll scrap this system before it's too late.

[dcgregorya]

I understand we need a "fair and competitive" Warzone, but you guys forget this is not a first person shooter this is a ROLE PLAYING GAME, and gear grinding and getting the best loot to dominate is PART OF ROLEPLAYING GAMES.

 

Now we don't need to make it so fresh 55s hit like a butterfly, but seriously if you have pvp gear YOU SHOULD HAVE A SLIGHT ADVANTAGE.

 

Don't like it? Well suck it up and get the gear.

 

Or you can suck it up and go back to WoW.