*** Official PvE DPS Leaderboard ***

[Movin_Target]

Could you link your exact skill tree please? Specifically, using torparse or Ask Mr Robot.

 

The OP has been updated. Logs that were deleted by torparse have been trimmed and then backfilled by paging back through the thread. If I missed anyone, please speak up! Most notably, we're short a vanguard parse.

 

Side note: remember that the double-proc SA bug is not to be used for leaderboard parses. I was idly inspecting a couple people who have had leaderboard parses in the past (now deleted) and saw they had two SA relics equipped. If you have two SA relics – more importantly, if I see two "Power Surge" buffs apply and then expire within a 20 second window – your parse is invalid and will be disqualified.

 

Disregard this post if this has changed recently, but...

 

The SA relic has separate lockouts for heals and for damage, so classes with passive heals (balance sage/shadow, any gunslinger, etc) can proc the power surge buff more often than once every twenty seconds. The two procs can't occur at the same time, but they can occur without locking each other out.

[jrhoads]

slightly better one this time http://www.torparse.com/a/412522 Skagrdian 2789dps

same build as before 5-38-3 for carnage http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bcZGGMRRrorMIRZc.3

gear is mainly the same overall added 2 Adept 31 enhancements and swapped out my UW BA for my EW BA everything else is the same

[KeyboardNinja]

The SA relic has separate lockouts for heals and for damage, so classes with passive heals (balance sage/shadow, any gunslinger, etc) can proc the power surge buff more often than once every twenty seconds. The two procs can't occur at the same time, but they can occur without locking each other out.

 

Yep. This is very true, unfortunately. It means that Watchman Sentinels and Balance Shadows/Sages are parsing higher than is (strictly) fair. Other classes can exploit this bug as well, but it's more visible (i.e. I will discount a gunslinger parse that has non-zero HPS).

[KeyboardNinja]

Random curiosity: is anyone interested in seeing guild tags along with people's names in the leaderboard list? A number of DPS leaderboards do this, and it's sometimes interesting. I did a quick run through the list to see what it would look like, and while it does cluttering things up a bit, it's not too bad. The biggest problem really is that 80% of the entries are dominated by just two guilds.

 

Anyway, I thought I would throw it out there to see what people think.

Edited September 5, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[ML_DoubleTap]

Seems silly to not count those parses with self healing specs. Do you count parses with specs that have an armor debuff? Or ones that don't rely on executes? 'Exploits' like your scoundrel parse that opens with a flechette round despite being in Dirty Fighting?

 

It's all about finding the best possible way right? I don't see why you discriminate in just that one case?

[jrhoads]

slowly getting better lol http://www.torparse.com/a/413228 Skagrdian should be about 2808 dps 5-38-3 is the carnage build same gear

[KeyboardNinja]

Seems silly to not count those parses with self healing specs. Do you count parses with specs that have an armor debuff? Or ones that don't rely on executes? 'Exploits' like your scoundrel parse that opens with a flechette round despite being in Dirty Fighting?

 

It's all about finding the best possible way right? I don't see why you discriminate in just that one case?

 

Oh I'm counting parses with self-healing specs. You'll notice that I've updated both the Balance and the Watchman leaders since this bug surfaced. I just want people to be aware that their numbers are artificially inflated.

 

There's a difference between cleverly using an ability to obtain an advantage (creative play) and leveraging a bug in the game (exploiting). The separate ICD proc issue gives certain specs a gear advantage that other specs don't have, since effectively they have three relics. This translates into a higher stat budget and thus (naturally) higher DPS. Unfortunately, some specs simply cannot avoid their self-heals (Balance and Watchman being great examples), so I won't penalize them for something outside their control. However, specs which wouldn't take their self-heal talent in a raid situation (e.g. Cool Under Pressure) will be penalized if I see them submitting, because then there is evident intent to exploit.

[Zergabaath]

I experimented abit and while doing watchmen spec the other night using arkanian SA / underworld SA I managed to get 3-4 procs within a 20 second period since both relics are proccing as well as both proccing on separate CD's heal / damage , but I never managed to get 3 to 4 procs going within a 6 second period for for example a 2,120 power boost. But I guess I never checked to see if my actual (pri) damage changed according in any case thats totally broken right=p. I know for a fact doing FP's on my sorc I'm getting 2 buffs at the same time off 1 SA relic doing damage and healing.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Oh I'm counting parses with self-healing specs. You'll notice that I've updated both the Balance and the Watchman leaders since this bug surfaced. I just want people to be aware that their numbers are artificially inflated.

 

There's a difference between cleverly using an ability to obtain an advantage (creative play) and leveraging a bug in the game (exploiting). The separate ICD proc issue gives certain specs a gear advantage that other specs don't have, since effectively they have three relics. This translates into a higher stat budget and thus (naturally) higher DPS. Unfortunately, some specs simply cannot avoid their self-heals (Balance and Watchman being great examples), so I won't penalize them for something outside their control. However, specs which wouldn't take their self-heal talent in a raid situation (e.g. Cool Under Pressure) will be penalized if I see them submitting, because then there is evident intent to exploit.

 

Eh, not my thread but I don't see the difference. Creative play and finding 'tricks' sounds a lot like finding 'exploits' to me. The only difference is who is drawing the line.

[RynZelara]

Eh, not my thread but I don't see the difference. Creative play and finding 'tricks' sounds a lot like finding 'exploits' to me. The only difference is who is drawing the line.

 

That's the point, it isn't finding a "trick". Pre-loading flechette round is something that can be done in a raid situation. Providing an armor debuff for yourself is something that can be done in a raid situation (and Commandos can't HELP that if they're in gunnery, unless you're calling the entire gunnery spec invalid). Executes are something that can be done in a raid situation and NOT on a dummy (which is why Shadow parses are considerably lower than all others).

 

Intentionally making use of a bug in the game in order to boost your numbers on a dummy, strictly speaking, is not exploiting anything since it isn't helping you clear game content easier. If you were using double SA relics, heal/damage double proc on an SA, or BOTH in a raid situation and it was evident that this was making the game easier than intended, then technically under the ToS I believe that counts EXACTLY as exploitation.

 

And I think that's the point here. At the end of the day, these parses are nothing more than a test of rotation consistency until you hit that one good parse where your crit rate is through the roof. So it really comes down to a matter of ethics when mentioning "honorable" play. One person's definition of honorable might be different from another, but trying to make a system wherein everyone has equal ground to stand on to start (aka the same gear being available to all) is probably the closest to "honorable" play.

 

Intentionally using a spec with talented self-heals that one would never use in a raid situation if they were trying to maximize DPS (under normal, bugless circumstances), simply to double proc an SA relic to boost their numbers on a dummy parse (which as KBN pointed out, equates to having an extra relic), is not really honorable since not everyone has a self-heal talent that allows them to do this. However, as was also pointed out, some specs simply CAN'T avoid this, like Consular Balance and Watchman Sentinel, since they NEED those self-heal talents to even spec up the tree properly, whereas other specs don't need to, or in some cases CAN'T.

 

His aim is to let Balance consular and Watchman sentinels know that their numbers are going to be inflated a bit till this bug gets fixed, but also that no one else should be doing this because EVERYONE can't do it in all damage specs. Therefore it isn't equal ground. And yeah, that makes Watchman and Balance more powerful atm. But that can't be helped, and letting others make use of an unintended game mechanic because two specs can't HELP making use of it isn't right because not everyone needs to, or can, make use of it.

 

Also, making use of this bug is really self-destructive because, should someone (or a whole raids' worth of DPS players) start relying on it to help clear content easier, when the bug gets fixed then they may find that they're not up to the task they were accomplishing before. And even if that's a bit of an extreme example, it would still be a personal disappointment to hit all these great numbers on a dummy and then have the bug fixed, only to never be able to hit those numbers again. And in that sense I really kinda feel bad for Balance and Watchman, even if they are experiencing a non-intended DPS boost right now.

[KurtDunn]

Westfaller DPS update. 2901, same spec.

 

But I would like to take this moment to say to all those looking at logs like this and wanting to get this much damage consistently, that this is on the lower end of statistical outliers. My average DPS output is ~2750-2850.

 

Vigilance output, more than most, is up to RNG. But I would like to point out to everyone that they should look closely at the top DPS parses here. Many of them have inflated crit rating, the result of the planets aligning in the parser's favor. If we had access to the majority of the top DPSer's parses, the average would be much closer to normal.

 

My parse (like many of the upper DPS parses) is in no way indicative of typically expected DPS, and this leaderboard is a decreasingly reliable tool to compare the performance of classes and specs.

 

As such I am willing to put my parse into 'honorable mentions,' rather than the top three DPS outputs, with an asterisk.

 

* - This parse is the result of inexplicable luck, and is not indicative of average damage output.

Edited September 7, 2013 by KurtDunn

[greg_biochem]

Westfaller DPS update. 2901, same spec.

 

But I would like to take this moment to say to all those looking at logs like this and wanting to get this much damage consistently, that this is on the lower end of statistical outliers. My average DPS output is ~2750-2850.

 

Vigilance output, more than most, is up to RNG. But I would like to point out to everyone that they should look closely at the top DPS parses here. Many of them have inflated crit rating, the result of the planets aligning in the parser's favor. If we had access to the majority of the top DPSer's parses, the average would be much closer to normal.

 

My parse (like many of the upper DPS parses) is in no way indicative of typically expected DPS, and this leaderboard is a decreasingly reliable tool to compare the performance of classes and specs.

 

As such I am willing to put my parse into 'honorable mentions,' rather than the top three DPS outputs, with an asterisk.

 

* - This parse is the result of inexplicable luck, and is not indicative of average damage output.

 

I'd encourage you to take note of the Caveats section of the OP:

 

 

Caveats

 

There are a couple very important caveats which go along with any data collection of this nature. First and foremost, every spec is different. It is not meaningful to compare dummy parse DPS numbers across specs (e.g. between a gunslinger and a sentinel). It can even be deceptive comparing numbers between specs in the same advanced class (e.g. watchman vs combat for sentinels), though to a far lesser extent.

 

Every spec has a different reliance on raid buffs. This is a very, very important thing to keep in mind. Sentinels/Marauders, for example, do not benefit from an armor debuff while parsing solo. Gunslingers/Snipers have an armor debuff, but no Inspiration/Bloodthirst and no execute. Shadows/Assassins are really the worst off, since they have the most potent execute talents in the game (especially in Balance/Madness spec). Specs which are more dependent on raid buffs will parse below their DPS ceiling on a static dummy, and their numbers should be considered accordingly. Each advanced class in this list is annotated with the appropriate dummy-related weaknesses.

 

Finally, let's all remember that dummy parses represent static, single-target fights. Actual bosses are dynamic, often multi-target fights with movement components, burst phases and forced downtime. Every spec behaves differently in the face of these challenges. For example, Assault Vanguards and Shadows of any spec handle target movement without any loss of DPS, as they have zero reliance on channels or casts. Similarly, Focus Sentinels see an enormous DPS jump on any boss with adds or multi-target potential, and Sentinels of any spec see a noticeable boost on bosses with periodic raid damage due to the Centering mechanic. All of these are things that the informed raid leader should remember and take into consideration when evaluating these results.

 

 

 

 

Dummy parses will inevitably vary based on gear level and crit percentage. For many reasons (listed in the caveats section), comparing numbers between classes/specs isn't very practical.

 

But for the most part, the best parses are only obtainable if the player can repeatedly execute the optimal rotation/priority until a favorable crit percentage is achieved. This means the top parses on the leaderboard (with optimal APM, # of hits, and timing of cooldowns) can be extremely helpful to players looking to improve their own DPS.

 

Collecting and maintaining a list of "average DPS numbers" seems like it would be extremely difficult, by comparison, if it should remain helpful to the community. Whoever maintained such a list would have to go through each log individually, making sure the optimal rotation was used, and selecting only those with an "average" crit percentage (likely discriminating for a specific gear level as well) to be included in the list.

Edited September 7, 2013 by greg_biochem

[KurtDunn]

Which is why just about the only useful things to take from posted parses include APM, and any rotations you can glean from the logs.

 

This is less a contest of skill and more a graded list of patience and persistence. I have had to tell people who have messaged me in game, that the numbers they're getting are about right, and they will only get higher numbers if they parse like madmen.

 

edit: Also I believe that I misspoke earlier, concerning the comparison of specs and classes. What a list like this really does is help you compare your own performance against those at the top echelons. To see what heights you can reach. But what isn't included are the number of parses that a were far lower than those select stratospheric 5 minute segments.

Edited September 8, 2013 by KurtDunn

[RynZelara]

Yes, I also agree with this. The numbers seen on this leaderboard are nothing more than a product of a ridiculously unrealistic crit chance occurring over 5 minutes. My average DPS is probably closer to 2800-2850 more than anything.

 

HOWEVER, as was also mentioned, crit rate isn't the ONLY thing that causes a good parse. A solid rotation, properly-timed cooldowns, and overall effective execution are what lead to good parses (usually, unless the crit rate is so high that it makes up for bad rotation and bad RNG to a degree). But mostly it's the execution that cause good numbers.

 

And it is that reason alone why I love the idea of dummy parsing so much. These numbers mean absolutely nothing when you get to it. Zippo. Zilch. Goose Egg. Why? Because the chances of getting a crit rate like those in these parses WHILE in an operation boss, are pretty slim, just as it's a slim chance on a dummy. But the PRACTICE and experience you gain in your class is invaluable. By learning from others who have solidified their rotation to a T (or simply solidifying your own rotation to a T after constant practice) you become more and more consistent as a DPS, and this shows in a raid setting. Where the next guy is spiking DPS up and down because he doesn't know his spec well enough to execute it perfectly, you now bring something of great value to the raid with your DPS: Static damage. The ability to perform in every part of the operation, and the imparting of confidence in the rest of your team that you will perform at an above average level at all times, with the chance to perform better based on varying factors (like crit rate, or AoE damage).

 

That's why I believe these leaderboards are so important. They push us to hone our skills in an environment of friendly competition, and as a result, ALL of us become better players and improve not only what we bring to our respective guilds, but the knowledge we can bring to others who are genuinely yearning to learn how to do better at the game. =) I'm not saying that we're obligated to teach others, per se, but simply that many more people benefit besides ourselves as a result of our hard work to improve ourselves. And that's something anyone can do.

[haksilence]

Speaking of inexplicable RNG.....

 

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/416735

cropped at

http://www.torparse.com/a/416735/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

 

im convinced that I am strictly limmited by gear at this point, i dont think i can get much higher than that with the rng shown here in 72's.

 

but oh well 2.4 is on its way.

[haksilence]

http://www.torparse.com/a/416761

 

my infiltration parse, no such luck on RNG

[Damastes]

http://www.torparse.com/a/416761

 

my infiltration parse, no such luck on RNG

 

Great parse in your other post. As for Infiltration, I honestly don't do that many parses anymore because they can be so frustrating. A parse or two after my 2739 one, I had such an insanely low crit over five minutes that I almost posted it as an example of the highs and lows of Infiltration, and because it was probably my record low (something like 2300 to low 2400s) with my current gear. I think our effective crit tends to be about 8-10% higher than what we see in game, and that parse was something like 1% higher. Painful.

 

It bugs me to no end that in Balance, a spec I'm not an expert with, I find it so much easier to maintain a high average DPS across several parses.

[haksilence]

yeah well that because, true being a RNG based spec, balance's DPSis fine tuned by RNG giving a variance of 50 or so dps on really good RNG or vise versa, infiltration on the other hand is ENTIRELY tuned around RNG which gives it a much higher variance from parse to parse and is what makes it so much less reliable.

[haksilence]

Great parse in your other post. .

 

yeah im averaging between 2650 and 2690-2700 but that was a lucky parse by far. the whole time i was glanceing at the meter and was thinking "holy ****! this might beat Aerree's parse!"

 

Alas it twas not quite enough

[haksilence]

BTW my first passable sharpshooter parse,

i screwed up rotation royaly on several occasions but not bad i think, given my limited experience

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/417124

[MiralukaJedi]

Been awhile since I parsed, but here's a new one.

 

Kelaeon

3110.65

 

Uncropped

http://www.torparse.com/a/417570/5/0/Overview

 

Cropped: http://www.torparse.com/a/417570/time/1378751524/1378751824/0/Overview

[Justrickyfornow]

http://www.torparse.com/a/418425 not much better than whats up now but still its progress 2752.57 2/22/22

[haksilence]

http://www.torparse.com/a/418463

 

so i guess lucky RNG replaced a propper rotation here, when i delayed the flyby i was about to trash this parse but i figured why not finish it.... kinda glad i did now lol

[Justrickyfornow]

http://www.torparse.com/a/419109 vincen't dps vanguard 2772 2/22/22

[Airam]

http://www.torparse.com/a/419516

 

Only because my parses fell off the leaderboard.

 

So my Master Strike never critted. It was a SELFISH *****.