Bolster PVE

[Quenum]

Do we get bolster for 55 PVE also?

 

Just wondering.. If you're going to bolster people's stats with PVE gear in 55 Warzones, then I'd like my PVP gear bolstered at 55 for all endgame PVE Flashpoints/Ops etc

[LanceCorporalDan]

While I can certainly understand your line of thinking (why reward PvE'ers in PvP but not PvP'ers in PvE) I doubt BW will address this seeing as the game is heavily slanted towards PvE'ers and PvE content.

 

It's also worth noting that gear progression is different for PvE. You must do flashpoint X to do operation Y to do HM operation Z. While in PvP it's just start in Wz's grind and grind to become better and get ranked gear, do ranked. Therefore gear acquisition is different.

 

A shame BW won't address their double standards.

[fatninja]

I agree, Its been proven that the highest tier for PVE(underworld, ilvl 72) is better than full conqueror(69) in pvp.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Double post. Edited April 16, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

[Coltraine]

For info conqueror is only 65, so it's actually worse than gear from the basic vendor which is 66.

[Hizoka]

the issue with that is you actually need to be a good player to get underworld gear... you can suck a left nut at PvP and still get the best gear in PvP.

 

 

On top of that bolstering stats for PvE would stop the derps from standing in fire.

[islander]

the issue with that is you actually need to be a good player to get underworld gear... you can suck a left nut at PvP and still get the best gear in PvP.

 

 

On top of that bolstering stats for PvE would stop the derps from standing in fire.

 

Except for the 40% of PvPers who are actually good, and do PvP because standard PvE raiding is full of loot drama wh**es, and the content is static and boring. Or maybe they don't feel like spending 3 hours a night doing one thing, waiting around for their raid to fill because two slackers don't show up on time, and so on, and so forth.

 

I'd argue a good PvPer (ranked participant) could do raid PvE content (bolstered) more easily then the other way around, but this is just a small subset of people...and your point about effectively ANYONE is capable of grinding pvp gear given time is completely true.

Edited April 16, 2013 by islander

[Lanja]

I must confess that this gear divide has always puzzled me. My hope is that we are seeing steps by BW to try to bridge the gear differnces between PvE and PvP players. Ideally focusing on one play mode, PvP or PvE, should not hobble you if you want to jump into the other mode. We should be encouraging people to do a bit of both, and without having to run around with two separate sets of gear.

 

In the early days, I questioned the rationale for a PvP-specific stat like Expertise at all. Why have a "the better to kill you with" stat that you grind in addition to all the others stats in game? My understanding, based on those conversations, is that Expertise is a necessary way of adjusting how damage, defense, healing, etc. work/scale against PvE mobs and bosses so they function appropriately against another player opponent in PvP. If that is the case, then so be it.

 

However, that led me to ask why Expertise is not then included on all gear, so that all gear functions correctly in the PvP environment. (My assumtion was that there was no down-side to having Expertise on your gear if you're running PvE content.) That said, I also noticed that PvP gear used to deduct Expertise from the total pool of points available for primary and secondary stats on mods. So in that sense, a PvP player was being penalized if they wanted to jump into PvE content. My understanding is that BW fixed that in 2.0 by having Expertise count separately and no longer eat up points that should be going to crit, surge, acc, etc.

 

I get that gear progression is a fundamental part of the game, and that successfully clearing content X (PvE) or achieving a ranking of Y (PvP) is what gets you the gear that you'll need to survive and succeed at the next competitive tier, but I would think we'd want gear of a particular tier (be it 61, 63, 66, 69, or 72) to perform equally well for you regardless of whether you're wearing it in a PvE or a PvP environment. The rest is skill.

 

So, my question is, does fixing PvP mods so that Expertise is no longer in a zero sum game with other stats (i.e. so a PvP'er doesn't have to forego other stats needed for PvE), combined with bolster for PvE gear (i.e. temporarily adding Expertise to gear that lacks it), essentially function to bridge the gear divide?

[ninjonxb]

There is no reason for a bolster in PVE

 

The Bolster for PVP exists because you all fight together against other players. In PVE there is a clear progression that you follow to get the gear you need.

 

In PVP there really is not. You are in the same warzones with the lowest gear as you could be at the highest gear. No divide there.

 

There is no double standard. They are making it so everyone can actually PVP at 55 (and all levels) with bolster. You can do PVE content at all levels. You just may not be able to do all of the PVE content until you spend time getting the gear. Not much different.

[Quenum]

I want my "Fair Share" of free PVE Bolster too.

 

Thanks.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Quenum

[Andryah]

There is no reason for a bolster in PVE

 

The Bolster for PVP exists because you all fight together against other players. In PVE there is a clear progression that you follow to get the gear you need.

 

In PVP there really is not. You are in the same warzones with the lowest gear as you could be at the highest gear. No divide there.

 

There is no double standard. They are making it so everyone can actually PVP at 55 (and all levels) with bolster. You can do PVE content at all levels. You just may not be able to do all of the PVE content until you spend time getting the gear. Not much different.

 

Quoted for sanity, objectivity, and truth.

[Quenum]

Sorry.. That's an opinion.

 

Again.. I want my "Fair Share" PVE Bolster or just remove the damn thing from all 55 content period.

 

Thanks.

[astrobearx]

I want my "Fair Share" of free PVE Bolster too.

 

Thanks.

weak straw man, is in fact, weak

[Andryah]

Do we get bolster for 55 PVE also?

 

Just wondering.. If you're going to bolster people's stats with PVE gear in 55 Warzones, then I'd like my PVP gear bolstered at 55 for all endgame PVE Flashpoints/Ops etc

 

In PvP.. other players who have more time and gear accumulated in PvP work to make the landscape unfair for any newcomers. Bolster is designed to offset this deliberate attempt to grief anyone that comes behind you.

 

In PvE there is a natural and balanced progression as you level in the game. Mobs are not trying to play king of the hill and rochambeau every player that comes along.

 

TL;DR there is a fundamental difference between competing with other players and competing with Mobs.

[Quenum]

We can argue this all day long.

 

The simple fix is just remove the damn bolster from all 55 content like I stated before.

 

And no it wasn't a 'weak straw man'.. So many people feel they are "entitled' to everything.

 

It's sickening.

[ninjonxb]

We can argue this all day long.

 

The simple fix is just remove the damn bolster from all 55 content like I stated before.

 

And no it wasn't a 'weak straw man'.. So many people feel they are "entitled' to everything.

 

It's sickening.

 

the only entitlement for anyone is in PVE to not be slaughtered if they are a fresh 55. If you work for your gear at 55 you still have an advantage over fresh 55. However now it is less of a slaughter.

 

Also, unless you were complaining about them giving out a set of PVP gear to new 50's, you have no reason to complain. This is no different.

Edited April 16, 2013 by ninjonxb

[LanceCorporalDan]

In PvP.. other players who have more time and gear accumulated in PvP work to make the landscape unfair for any newcomers. Bolster is designed to offset this deliberate attempt to grief anyone that comes behind you.

 

In PvE there is a natural and balanced progression as you level in the game. Mobs are not trying to play king of the hill and rochambeau every player that comes along.

 

TL;DR there is a fundamental difference between competing with other players and competing with Mobs.

 

Expertise is designed to ensure PvE heroes don't grind top end gear and wreck in PvP.

 

Question: Why is bolster needed if gear is so easily acquired?

Edited April 16, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

[ninjonxb]

Bolster (correct me if i am wrong) buffs you up to the lowest PVP gear available for 55.

This puts you on a more even playing field with other fresh 55.

This also changes it so there is less of a gap between a fully decked out PVP and someone with no PVP gear.

For PVP you all it takes it time. Run enough PVP matches (even if you loose them all) you get gear.

 

Previously this meant. You go in. You get killed over and over again. You finally get enough commendations to get gear. You now kill the people who are in your shoes now (crappy gear) over and over. It is a horrible cycle and the bolster now grows the community that actually PVP.

 

Now instead of gear being basically the only thing that matters. You actually have to know how to PVP to win.

 

I am convinced the only people complaining (with the exception of people complaining about the bug fixed today) are those that were part of this cycle and never actually learned to pvp well...

[Andryah]

Question: Why is bolster needed if gear is so easily acquired?

 

Because Bioware has made it clear that they want PvP in this game to be primarily a skill check (a team skill check by the way) .... not a gear check. That said... the reason they don't strip everyone and put PvP cookie cutter gear on you when you enter PvP is because they also know players get attached to gear they worked for.

 

Their approach makes for healthier PvP in the long run as veterans cannot simply freeze other players out of competitive PvP based on gear (which is what happens in a lot of other MMOs.. and stiffles PvP growth).

Edited April 16, 2013 by Andryah

[LanceCorporalDan]

Because Bioware has made it clear that they want PvP in this game to be primarily a skill check (a team skill check by the way) .... not a gear check. That said... the reason they don't strip everyone and put PvP cookie cutter gear on you when you enter PvP is because they also know players get attached to gear they worked for.

 

Their approach makes for healthier PvP in the long run as veterans cannot simply freeze other players out of competitive PvP based on gear (which is what happens in a lot of other MMOs.. and stiffles PvP growth).

 

I agree it should be skill based. But with gear giving a slight advantage that grows with the time invested into it.

 

I know bolster is bugged (haven't aged today) but I'm concerned that those who have worked hours on end are having their gear loose its effectiveness. I know it helps to prevent squishing new 55's but if gear will mean so little now, at least make it easier to get the top end.

 

If gear gap would be lowered by lowering the expertise gap between sets then there would be no need for a buggy bolster the new gear is quite easy to get.

[ivanhedgehog]

There is no reason for a bolster in PVE

 

The Bolster for PVP exists because you all fight together against other players. In PVE there is a clear progression that you follow to get the gear you need.

 

In PVP there really is not. You are in the same warzones with the lowest gear as you could be at the highest gear. No divide there.

 

There is no double standard. They are making it so everyone can actually PVP at 55 (and all levels) with bolster. You can do PVE content at all levels. You just may not be able to do all of the PVE content until you spend time getting the gear. Not much different.

 

and if they removed bolster..what do you think would happen to WZ que times?

[ninjonxb]

and if they removed bolster..what do you think would happen to WZ que times?

There would most likely be a drop in people queueing up. I PVP more now that the bolster is not there. I enjoy PVP but I used to only PVP on one character. If bolster was removed I would go back to that and I would assume I am not alone.

Level 50 pvp was a blood bath before bolster. This is not an opinion in any way. If you think it is an opinion obviously you were decked out in top gear...

[ivanhedgehog]

There would most likely be a drop in people queueing up. I PVP more now that the bolster is not there. I enjoy PVP but I used to only PVP on one character. If bolster was removed I would go back to that and I would assume I am not alone.

Level 50 pvp was a blood bath before bolster. This is not an opinion in any way. If you think it is an opinion obviously you were decked out in top gear...

 

exactly...and very soon the bloodbath would cause people to stop pvping in favor of something less frustrating.

[ninjonxb]

exactly...and very soon the bloodbath would cause people to stop pvping in favor of something less frustrating.

 

I am confused. Do you agree that Bolster should stay in PVP and not go in PVE? Or something else?

[Kilora]

Sorry.. That's an opinion.

 

Again.. I want my "Fair Share" PVE Bolster or just remove the damn thing from all 55 content period.

 

Thanks.

 

Sorry, this is an opinion.

 

They won't be removing Bolster -- especially after how much work they've dropped into it. You're "fair share" is pure entitlement. Your current PvP gear is better than what MOST PvE players have when starting the end-game progression. My high-end PvE gear is NOT equivalent to your high-end PvP gear. Not at all.