halbarz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) This is not about silly 4-mans and being a jerk towards others. It's about raids, something you clearly have no notion about. You can't have successful raids with 1 guy doing 200dps and another 6k. You also can't tell the difference between the 2 unless you study them closely. Which you aren't supposed to be doing anyway if the raids are hard because you'll be focusing on your own char to stay alive, maximize dps, avoid crap, interrupt etc. EQ was a zergfest that required 0 skills. Even the current LFR in WoW provides harder content than that joke of an MMO. wow raids are nothing compeared to raids in other games, just so you know mate. people that say they are pro because they played wow. think again. people that say they did several MMO's and did the end content there will know the difference in how hard bosses can be in games. Edited December 21, 2011 by Zilrota edited quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Anyone who says EQ was a zergfest never stepped foot in a EQ Raid and most certainly never woke the sleeper. You basically have shown that you have very little knowledge and want raiding to be reduced to a DPS E-peen fest. This is why so many people are speaking out against meters. They want to return integrity back to raiding. You just proved why you don't want meters (no worry they're coming) if you think EQ was hard. Edited December 21, 2011 by Zilrota removed rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halbarz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I admit. Back in that OTHER game, I used a couple meters, tracked my numbers, tried to improve with my guild, etc. In PUGs, there were always people linking their meters, insulting each other, and generally just being bad to each other. In all the PUGs I've been in here in SWTOR, with no meters, we actually made conversation. Nobody's been worried about DPS, or the occassional wipe. They get up, reposition, say "Okay, what did that boss just do? Spawned adds at half health? We can get him this time." instead of screaming about "You were 1k DPS too short nub, fail more, we wiped because of you!" /kick. Instead, it's been really laid back, and a whole lot of fun. I think we can actually do alright without meters. well said ^^ +255 rep ( dark side points ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 True its great fun. I am not a dps but I know that many dps do silly mistakes because they feel pushed to top dps meters, as they are afraid to be kicked if they dont. For me as tank this is kinda annoying, so I do support it that we dont have such tools in the game. you mean the ones who openup with everythign they have and pull the agro off the tank who has not even started their charge in. Then whine that the tank sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrynen Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) wow raids are nothing compeared to raids in other games, just so you know mate. people that say they are pro because they played wow. think again. people that say they did several MMO's and did the end content there will know the difference in how hard bosses can be in games. There was a boss in Vanilla WoW that was mathematically impossible to beat. I'm sorry, but Vanilla Naxx and the last 2 bosses of AQ 40 were very difficult. Edited December 21, 2011 by scrynen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentPanda Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 This whole thread has been re-hashed about a million times. The fact of the matter is such: the problem you have isn't with the meters, it's with the people. If you group with people that have ridiculous complexes and need to be the highest damage on everything- you'll be grouping with an ***. And an *** is an *** with or without the meters. With them- he links meters, without them- he chats about the insane crit he just got and how everyone else sucks. The difference is with meters he gives empirical, honest data. Stop grouping with bads and group with decent people instead of just 'whomever', and you'll no longer have these problems, and moreover you'll starve the annoying jerks of their power- they'll be forced to group up with one another. Stop railing against meters and combat logging. I'm a tank, I'm a healer- I've never played a DPS class. I can't stand it- I find DPSing boring. I love damage/healing/activity/death/dispel meters and combat parsing. As a raid lead they tell me who is performing up to par, and what can be done about it. As a tank they tell me when I'm taking too much damage and why, so I can avoid it. As a healer they tell me who IS taking too much damage and/or why they're dying and what from. Without these tools I'm left to guess, make assumptions, and bang my head against the wall. With them- I'm informed. I can make informed decisions: anyone can. The decisions made are based on information and logic, not opinions and guesses (a notoriously bad way to make decisions). The decision itself is up to the individual raid leader/group leader/player. If you have a problem with the decisions, blame the decision-maker, not the tools they use. I'm sorry those of you have been burned in the past by people with combat parsing tools- I really am. It's unfortunate that the world consists of a lot of jerks. In order to play at the high echelons of PVE competition this game will require at max level and still be challenging- parsing the numbers (and that's what competitive PVE is about- numbers. My numbers vs the boss's numbers) will analyze weak points and allow the raid to compensate. A non-challenging encounter will require no meters. If you don't like them- group with people that don't care if you win or lose the fight, and you guys can do whatever you like. But for people coming to this game seeking higher-end PVE competition, this will be of the utmost importance or they simply will move on. And you might not care, which is grand- maybe serious players only account for 15% of the game's revenue. That's 15% fewer tanks, healers, DPS- the people that follow them, the friends of theirs, the direct and indirect benefits they bring. That's fine. But please don't complain when you shoo these people away and then there's nothing to do at max level besides roll alts or PVP. Love and hugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepinoCantador Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 wow raids are nothing compeared to raids in other games, just so you know mate. people that say they are pro because they played wow. think again. people that say they did several MMO's and did the end content there will know the difference in how hard bosses can be in games. I laughed so hard when he spewed that crap about EQ from his pie hole. There really are people out there who think that WoW raids, even from day one, could have ever been considered 'hard core', and all I can do is smile, politely pat them on the head and move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) It's also funny how everyone is so fixated on DPS meters but ignore the fact that the combat log will include who died because of what, who dispelled, who healed who and when and many other things that are required to raid properly. They're just worried about being flamed in 4man dungeons, like those matter at all. I laughed so hard when he spewed that crap about EQ from his pie hole. There really are people out there who think that WoW raids, even from day one, could have ever been considered 'hard core', and all I can do is smile, politely pat them on the head and move along. Here's a tip. Something taking forever doesn't make it hard. It's cool though, you made me laugh too so we're at least entertaining each other. Edited December 21, 2011 by Skeelol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halbarz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There was a boss in Vanilla WoW that was mathematically impossible to beat. I'm sorry, but no raid in any MMO compares to the difficulty of Vanilla Naxx and the last 2 bosses of AQ 40. sorry but there is no boss that requires YOU ( the player ) to USE addons. if so the game has failed itself. ps: you can support a dps meter as much as you want, but this game has opened people there eyes. and because this game is not only with wow players ( just so you would know ) people do not like the idea of it / dislike the tools in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepinoCantador Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's also funny how everyone is so fixated on DPS meters but ignore the fact that the combat log will include who died because of what, who dispelled, who healed who and when and many other things that are required to raid properly. They're just worried about being flamed in 4man dungeons, like those matter at all. Here's a tip. Something taking forever doesn't make it hard. It's cool though, you made me laugh too so we're at least entertaining each other. They didn't take forever. One time in this thread, try something new - find something you DO know something about, THEN comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 So calling you a troll because you're trolling is name calling? Awesome. You just proved why you don't want meters (no worry they're coming) if you think EQ was hard. Dude you never once been in a EQ raid....you are just making yourself look foolish. Bioware is a company of least resistance...if they can't please the vast majority they won't move on it. That has always been their MO. But by all means keep waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Dude you never once been in a EQ raid....you are just making yourself look foolish. Bioware is a company of least resistance...if they can't please the vast majority they won't move on it. That has always been their MO. But by all means keep waiting. I don't have to, combat log's already been confirmed. Keep thinking it won't happen though, just makes it all the more amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntcore Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I really cannot wait to kick all the bads from my group who wished they never put in damage meters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halbarz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's also funny how everyone is so fixated on DPS meters but ignore the fact that the combat log will include who died because of what, who dispelled, who healed who and when and many other things that are required to raid properly. They're just worried about being flamed in 4man dungeons, like those matter at all. . 1) in alot of other mmo's that you clearly didnt play, the combat log already was showing that. 2) there is a difference, i bet that no one will be ready his combat log all the time, while a dps meter is easier to see. 3) people dont want to get flamed thats true, but people also want to enjoy a flashpoint and dont wanna stress out because some J*rk is shouting in chat for more dps. 4) for some people it does matter, look maybe you know or you dont, but some people enjoy a nice, friendly, ... community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warstrike Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I would like a damage meter - but only on a "target dummy" format That would let me figure work on how well I could exicute a rotation/piority list Def don't feel we need a damage meter for flashpoint/operations But would like to have a threatmeter of some kind However - from what I see at my lowbie levels - DPS can pretty much stay alive on Trash - and do that without a bunch of healer spamming Looks like you only really need a tank on bosses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lcore Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 No damage meter = feels like I'm playing an old school MMO again. I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeseek Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I don't have to, combat log's already been confirmed. Keep thinking it won't happen though, just makes it all the more amusing. You've yet to provide a link to this. It's never been said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strixi Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag. what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware! More fun then spending hours to figure out who is doing the terrible DPS and holding you back to kill some boss? ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthjerro Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I love having no meters so now I can play the way i want to play and just use the spells I want too even if they are not the ones I should be using. Now no one can complain about how I play. Ahhhhh, so your the cc breaker with low dps taking up space in my raids! You dont want a damage meter because, well, frankly , you arnt very good at gaming! But just because of this, please dont drag others down to your level. A BIG YES TO DAMAGE METRES AND TARGET DUMMIES, and i would also very much like a threat metre AND FRIGGEN' TARGET OF TARGET '......Seriously, why no target of target? How is a tank meant to perform 100% if he doesnt know who the big bad robot is targeting?This is coming from a tank...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halbarz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Wow, learn English. Anyway, you can't just say that certain people don't like it, and act like that's everybody. I don't really care about a dps meter, I just can't stand people like you who are against them. Just remember that they are adding a combat log, and when they do, a parser will be made. i hope you do know that not everyone in the world is speaking english as native langauge. dps meter or not its biowares call, just remeber that not everyone wants to use them, so i think that its mroe then fair to say that people should respect that and not ruine there game. or you should just not group with them. regards. ps: Wow, learn to be abit more friendly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeseek Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 How about this suggestion. DPS meters for Dummies/Raids no DPS meters for Flashpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I've got no clue what you're talking about. Combat logs have been disabled since beta since they weren't working properly and still needed to have work done on them, but will be added once they fixed the issues. It was a known fact they weren't going to make it on release just like many other things. Please do enlighten me how you can tell the difference between some guy doing 200 dps and another doing 6k without an actual meter. Obviously not talking about being totally afk, but one spamming random skills. In a 16-people raid environment. Please i'll be waiting. the same way we did it in old EQ before people even thought about Damage meters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 the same way we did it in old EQ before people even thought about Damage meters EQ wasn't hard. Please try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halbarz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 How about this suggestion. DPS meters for Dummies/Raids no DPS meters for Flashpoints. i would not mind it having it on a dummie, as it would mean both sides on this discussion can give in and this discussion could be closed. or bioware could give a reply on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrynen Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 the same way we did it in old EQ before people even thought about Damage meters EQ had parsers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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