It's great to PVE with no Damage Meters

[Rainlight]

Didnt read any of the thread except for the OP.

 

I can GUARANTEE OP was playing like trash bringing his/her group down in WOW once. Gets called out on it, gets defensive 'IT'S MY $15 A MONTH', gets kicked.

 

Now has an irrational anger against mods and dps meters, instead of realizing it's all their fault in the first place for playing poorly.

 

 

 

There's an easy easy fix for "kids making fun of your low damage", people.

 

GET

 

BETTER.

 

 

Problem solved. Now bring on the mods and the macros, SWTOR's UI and AH really really need to be custom-done.

[Ghaiana]

The people I like to group with in MMO's are sociable people, with whom you can have a laugh, who don't really care about who's best, who won't start to scream when someone makes a mistake, who are patient, those who have bright ideas about how to overcome a problem (which does not neccesarily have to be the most damage). I don't care if they use damage meters, as long as they don't use them to tell other people how bad they are.

[Jett-Rinn]

To the folks who saying that Damage meters will happen let me direct your attention to a recent Google + conversation

 

+Georg Zoeller There is so much bickering over whether or not to use Damage meters and you guys currently have SWTORS turned off.

 

A lot of us wish that tools like that could be useful and still not be used to insult and degrade other players or to turn the game into a DPS fest.

 

I really don't envy you guys it seems if you use them or not people are going to be upset.

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2 comments

 

Georg Zoeller - We are aware of the expectations and fears of the community and we're treading carefully forward

2:42 AM

 

Well...If anyone can find a happy medium you guys can.

2:45 AM - Edit

 

 

So I think whatever we end up with it won't be the tool that so many of you are expecting. One thing is for sure it is off now and will stay off until Bioware figures out a way for it not to be abused.

 

Happy Holidays

Edited December 21, 2011 by Jett-Rinn

[Bigguyonarock]

Dear Conscience,

 

True. But if you are so concerned with playing with other people who are 'good' and who share the idea that a video game should be 'work' and that there is only one proper way to do anything. 'You' should join a guild full of likeminded individuals, and play with them, as opposed to trying to force your desires on everyone else and then telling them to suck it up or make a guild called 'casually casual'.

 

Contrary to belief, a majority of the games players are probably casual and probably honestly do not care how hard you are raging because they are not playing their class the way you want them too. That is the way the cookie crumbles, sadly. If you want hardcore raiders, find likeminded poeple and guild up. Prolly the only way you'll ever enjoy your game.

 

Signed,

Sanity

 

Dear Sanity,

 

I did. But I don't expect them to help me with every flashpoint I want to do or group mission I want to do.

 

So I occasionally like meet new people and see if there's anyone else in the vast majority who shares my POV on playing the game. Those that do, I tend to play with. Those that don't, I tend to ignore.

 

You can play however you want. Don't complain when others dislike the fact that your preferred method of playing is severely interfering their enjoyment of the game.

 

Respectfully,

Your Conscience.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Bigguyonarock

[Caelrie]

Source on this? I saw the video where the devs were indicating that addons and their implementation were being discussed internally and whatever the result ended up being, it would be post launch before changes were made. I haven't seen anything else (but would like to) if metric tools were discussed specifically.

 

It's in a Q&A audio interview with Georg from a fan summit. Easy enough to find, just google and listen to it. He's 100% clear about the topic.

[AlpsStranger]

fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag.

 

what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGb4Fw4-ljM

 

That is all.

Edited December 21, 2011 by AlpsStranger

[Skeelol]

To the folks who saying that Damage meters will happen let me direct your attention to a recent Google + conversation

 

+Georg Zoeller There is so much bickering over whether or not to use Damage meters and you guys currently have SWTORS turned off.

 

A lot of us wish that tools like that could be useful and still not be used to insult and degrade other players or to turn the game into a DPS fest.

 

I really don't envy you guys it seems if you use them or not people are going to be upset.

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2 comments

 

Georg Zoeller - We are aware of the expectations and fears of the community and we're treading carefully forward

2:42 AM

 

Well...If anyone can find a happy medium you guys can.

2:45 AM - Edit

 

 

So I think whatever we end up with it won't be the tool that so many of you are expecting. One thing is for sure it is off now and will stay off until Bioware figures out a way for it not to be abused.

 

Happy Holidays

 

They bring out the combat log, damage meters will exist.

 

It's funny how people fall for sugar coating.

[Kurnea]

Why limit everybody elses gameplay by adding DPS meters? Why add a feature that just caters to a certain group of people when a bunch others dont?

 

If you're grouping with people who agree with your playstyle, the addition of dps meters has no effect on you. People who want dps meters can play with them, people who don't can play without them. Both sides can get what they want this way, rather than restricting meters and letting only one side have what they want.

 

And by that logic, why can't they just group with other HARDCORE RAIDZ people, instead of demanding a DPS meter? Seriously. That argument is two ways.

 

No... because without meters people still aren't getting what they want.

 

Addons are an option, you can use them or not use them. Without addons, you're limited strictly to 'not using them'.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Kurnea

[sperkin]

Even with DPS meter you can still watch TV and be top 5 DPSer.

 

Get a razer naga, g15 keyboard, belkin n52te, and make some scripts and macros. Go watch TV and just use one hand to point your character to the mob you want dead.

 

SWTOR just made it so people who don't want to spend $200+ and write macros can still watch TV and dps without people being mad that them for not doing good dps.

 

Since there is no auto attack and such in SWTOR I have such a huge advantage with all the hardwares listed above. When I play I don't even need to spam any buttons. I just toggle it ON or OFF. I just need to target a mob that I want to kill.

[Kineticks]

Nope.

 

It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid.

 

What's that? No response? It's ok.

 

...every single serious raiding that has ever existed to answer your question.

 

A large part of raiding is the theorycrafting done outside of the raid, without numbers to crunch there are is no way to improve.

 

The fact is some people don't like to wallow in mediocrity and just say ignorance is bliss. I am fully aware this is a game but i'm a competitive person and i dont enjoy not having the tools to improve myself.

[Colobulous]

So I think whatever we end up with it won't be the tool that so many of you are expecting. One thing is for sure it is off now and will stay off until Bioware figures out a way for it not to be abused.)

 

That is utterly impossible. You want to know why?

 

Because the capacity to abuse is human. Ergo, if any human being can say anything, then they can say something abusive.

 

It's a waste of time trying to prevent that.

[Sath_Wishes]

I ask myslf how an Damage Meter can be abused as many say... i mean if somebody is pretty much brainafk and doing nothing, he deservs to be kicked.

 

For myself, i would like to know how good I perform and compare myself to others. So, give Damage Meters, please.

[Viera]

Dear Sanity,

 

I did. But I don't expect them to help me with every flashpoint I want to do or group mission I want to do.

 

So I occasionally like meet new people and see if there's anyone else in the vast majority who shares my POV on playing the game. Those that do, I tend to play with. Those that don't, I tend to ignore.

 

You can play however you want. Don't complain when others dislike the fact that your preferred method of playing is severely interfering their enjoyment of the game.

 

Respectfully,

Your Conscience.

 

Dear Conscience,

 

The moment you take your DPS meter into the public and try to form groups with people who have a different mindset than you and who are enjoying the game the way they enjoy it, and you start kicking people from groups for not meeting your expectations is when you are forcing your views on other people.

 

Not cool.

 

Signed,

Sanity.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Viera

[Buur]

I ask myslf how an Damage Meter can be abused as many say... i mean if somebody is pretty much brainafk and doing nothing, he deservs to be kicked.

 

For myself, i would like to know how good I perform and compare myself to others. So, give Damage Meters, please.

 

People just live in fear of being told they aren't good at playing a video game.

[cronpants]

How can you optimize your damage output if you don't even know what it is. Damage meters are there to show slackers and baddies.

 

You are the problem with mmo's these days. You alone are the sole problem. You.

 

You aren't interested in the story, the reason you and 3 other people are killing a boss. You are only interested in YOU.

 

You want to be in first place, You want to be ranked, You want the glory.

 

You are a narcissistic braggart that cannot function without validation.

 

You will be put on ignore.

[Jett-Rinn]

They bring out the combat log, damage meters will exist.

 

It's funny how people fall for sugar coating.

 

A combat log dose not a damage meter make. They could very well make said log only functional in certain areas like a training area or only in Nightmare versions of Operations, they could even make said log only show your DPS and not others.

 

It's funny how people assume so much and are often wrong.

[Yfelsung]

You are the problem with mmo's these days. You alone are the sole problem. You.

 

You aren't interested in the story, the reason you and 3 other people are killing a boss. You are only interested in YOU.

 

You want to be in first place, You want to be ranked, You want the glory.

 

You are a narcissistic braggart that cannot function without validation.

 

You will be put on ignore.

 

What about those of us who care about the story, the reason, the 3 other players AND want to know their DPS output?

 

Some of us strive for personal excellence.

[FadedIdeals]

I certainly think a combat log should (and probably will) be added. This is a basic feature that's been present in every MMO I've ever played with the possible exception of The Realm--maybe it had one, but I don't remember as it was a long time ago. I mainly use combat logs to see how much damage an enemy is dealing to me, find out what killed me, or get a general sense of my healing/damage, but I don’t need to see it all times.

 

As for meters, I never cared much for them. They have a tendency to foster one-upmanship to an unhealthy degree and can take away from the fact one is playing a game and not Excel Online. I get the sense most of those in favor of meters and performance add-ons come from WoW, which isn't too surprising since--from Ultima Online to Dark Age of Camelot to Vanguard to Warhammer Online--no other MMO (that I've played) has such a high degree of meters, performance add-ons, and alerts present among its players.

 

Some argue an elitist jerk will still be an elitist jerk with or without these tools. While this can hold true, it's not absolutely the case. Much like how someone can seem normal and pleasant when met in person only to become a complete degenerate when given the power of anonymity through the internet, someone who is otherwise laidback can become incredibly judgmental once they can keep tabs on everyone else through the power of monitoring add-ons. I’ve seen it happen.

 

For me, the biggest skill I look for in someone is situational awareness and the ability to act (or react) quickly. The numbers don’t mean as much to me; they will come with time/gear. How many times have you seen the classic “standing in the fire” or have seen the healer getting beat on for ten minutes without a single person peeling off the agro? And I mean repeat offenders, not the occasional screw-up. Everyone does that now and again. I find those sorts of things far more aggravating and destructive to success than a person doing 5 DPS less than the other guy.

 

As for the UI, I’m all for making it more versatile, scalable, and usable provided it’s carried out by Bioware and not third-party tools. This helps keep the playing field more even plus one doesn’t have to maintain mods and worry about version compatibility.

 

On a semi-related note, has anyone noticed the following: Bind an ability to a mouse-button (I bound one of my heals to a thumb-button), keep your cursor hovered over a portrait or the quickbar, and then click the mouse-button. The ability doesn’t fire, right? I found I had to move my cursor off the quickbar/portraits in order for my heal to actually fire. Incredibly annoying.

[EdgeDs]

Its a mixed evil really yes it can be a very useful tool but its just to open for abuse and while overall damage can be measured by these things it dont not always cover effective damge or measure skill full play. They are also very open as tools of abuse for kids to try and bully other players or to try and impress their ego/epeen on people.

Overall I am glad that they are not in dispite the legitmate use of them nothing as boring as some kid spaming results every five minutes and once one tool comes in the next will be gear score and a who other lot of crap.

[Sentryx]

On one hand I like it, on the other it would be really nice to see my damage so I can optimize my ability usage, maybe just a meter that shows only your own damage with no way to post it?

 

I have seen that in other games, not a bad idea at all.

[Yfelsung]

A combat log dose not a damage meter make. They could very well make said log only functional in certain areas like a training area or only in Nightmare versions of Operations, they could even make said log only show your DPS and not others.

 

It's funny how people assume so much and are often wrong.

 

You underestimate modders.

 

Once the information exists, we can make a mod out of it.

 

Most modders are fairly accomplished programmers in their own right.

[Sath_Wishes]

People just live in fear of being told they aren't good at playing a video game.

 

How can they be feared by someone how is says: "your doing it wrong bro" ? It's not like you get kicked because you did 10 DPS less then the next, its just ... if you go in an Instance / Flashpoints / Operations, you fill a slot. If you aren't capable of filling this slot, you don't deserve to be there.

[Sentryx]

You are the problem with mmo's these days. You alone are the sole problem. You.

 

You aren't interested in the story, the reason you and 3 other people are killing a boss. You are only interested in YOU.

 

You want to be in first place, You want to be ranked, You want the glory.

 

You are a narcissistic braggart that cannot function without validation.

 

You will be put on ignore.

 

Exactly right. I don't understand why people like this guy don't just play FPS games like MW3 and leave our mmo games alone.

[Orvish]

Nope.

 

It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid.

 

What's that? No response? It's ok.

 

When we first recruited this one hunter in our guild, he died to mechanics repeatedly, pulled low DPS, and pulled down the raid at times. But we kept him, had him work with some of our other hunters, helped him learn to avoid mechanics, and now he's one of our top DPS.

 

So yes, in some top tier guilds people will get left behind for not pulling their weight, but for the large majority of guilds, unless you're constantly riding the bottom of the meters, and by a significant margin, no one is going to be removed.

 

I want to see a damage meter for the sole purpose of being able to quantitatively measure my output, and to see other's output. Not for e-peen purposes, but for actual good reasons of wanting to maximize my character.

[Caelrie]

 

So I think whatever we end up with it won't be the tool that so many of you are expecting. One thing is for sure it is off now and will stay off until Bioware figures out a way for it not to be abused.

 

Happy Holidays

 

That actually isn't true. Georg said very clearly that's not the case. They're just rewriting the combat log to make it better, not holding it out because they're afraid your feelings might get hurt.