snowmon Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 people just don't know how to use them properly which is why they don't like them. ill give you an example of how using recount properly is tied into helping you improve. i did a ZA run a while back and we had a Warrior doing 7-8k dps, now considering my main for 7yrs is a warrior I knew something he was doing was wrong. recount don't only show you dps but I can also see what skills he was using, in the entire fight he had only used Mortal Strike 3 times.now to anyone that knows how to play an arms warrior you know that this is just wrong on all lvls...as Mortal strike is your number 1 priority ability and should be being used on CD. I pointed this out to the Warrior in question and surprisingly didn't get any abuse, he stated he was new to arms warriors and did as I suggested, low and behold he increased his damage significantly because of it. when we start doing nightmare modes this type of analysing tool is going to be a nessesity to taking down these bosses, we NEED some sort of combat log and a way of analysing the fight to improve, people who don't know or agree with this have no high lvl endgame experience and have no idea what they are talking about. recount is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strausenhat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 At the beginning of this thread, people wanted proof that combat parser would be available in the form of a link. Though a little late, here is the proof http://swtor-rp.com/home/m/1639454/article/420899 Listen to the Georg Zoeller Q&A at the bottom. About three minutes in, he says that an exportable combat log is something "very high on the priority list." In-game damage meters aren't confirmed because they haven't confirmed AddOns, but James Ohlen did say that customizing the User Interface would be coming "soon" here: http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12/14/massively-exclusive-the-force-ghosts-of-past-present-and-futu/. Which could be a hint at AddOns, or it could not, whatever. That's all I wanted to say, do whatever you want with the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallowyr Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 At the beginning of this thread, people wanted proof that combat parser would be available in the form of a link. Though a little late, here is the proof http://swtor-rp.com/home/m/1639454/article/420899 Listen to the Georg Zoeller Q&A at the bottom. About three minutes in, he says that an exportable combat log is something "very high on the priority list." In-game damage meters aren't confirmed because they haven't confirmed AddOns, but James Ohlen did say that customizing the User Interface would be coming "soon" here: http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12/14/massively-exclusive-the-force-ghosts-of-past-present-and-futu/. Which could be a hint at AddOns, or it could not, whatever. That's all I wanted to say, do whatever you want with the info. Exportable Combat Log =/= Recount style Damage Meter I for one would love an Exportable Combat Log but gonna have to say no thanks to a Recount style Damage Meter. As for addons, I think he refers more to the type of UI customization where you can move things around and rescale it as you see fit, perhaps even custom skins, much like Lotro after the original Book 10 patch back in 07/08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbster Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 And ingame DPS meter doesn't really bother me at all, but a combat log would be great. ACT for EQ2 was a great log parser as it would show AE timers, DMG types etc. Not sure why anyone wouldn't want a tool that helps them play better. I for one wouldn't really want to group with anyone that was happy dishing out low dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Exportable Combat Log =/= Recount style Damage Meter I for one would love an Exportable Combat Log but gonna have to say no thanks to a Recount style Damage Meter. As for addons, I think he refers more to the type of UI customization where you can move things around and rescale it as you see fit, perhaps even custom skins, much like Lotro after the original Book 10 patch back in 07/08. Combat log = unofficial skada/recount type of addon. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibizadrog Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I love having no meters so now I can play the way i want to play and just use the spells I want too even if they are not the ones I should be using. Now no one can complain about how I play. Quoted for awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scerion Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Agree with OP - the "e-peen" addons just encourage abuse and arguments in groups. I think combat logs should be private unless the player is in a raid. I'm assuming most people who are raiding will be reasonably geared and experienced so it won't be a problem. I too have seen the problems "recount" has caused with *****s linking their "awesome dps" stats in level 10 dungeons - noone cares! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nague Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Exportable Combat Log =/= Recount style Damage Meter I for one would love an Exportable Combat Log but gonna have to say no thanks to a Recount style Damage Meter. As for addons, I think he refers more to the type of UI customization where you can move things around and rescale it as you see fit, perhaps even custom skins, much like Lotro after the original Book 10 patch back in 07/08. the seconds there is an exportable log i can use EQ2s parser on it and have my damage meter. worked in rift too. or aion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squiek Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 no one is unhappy, except wowlings. dmg-meters are a wow thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 no one is unhappy, except wowlings. dmg-meters are a wow thing. Yep, agreed. There's damage done only in WoW, in other games like SWToR you down bosses by diplomacy skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viktoor Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Only bad players dont want a dpsmeter.. u can test out the best rotation, try something new at the bosses if your dps is 2 low, u can see if 1 in the group is bad at dps if u wana do nightmares u cant have a slacker in the group. Why cant bad players just play with bad players? Do u want the gear so much that u need other good dps ppl? Its sad 2 here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squiek Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Only bad players need tools to tell who can't play. Experienced ones can tell you when they see your animations and hear your sound. And even in WoW dps is not that important. The reason nr1 for wipes is not dmg, it's stupid players who die and can't get out of glowing things. DPS can compensate failures but I guess no one here want it the WoW way. Played harder games than wow before and no one ever needed dps meters. For me WoWlings are idiots. Crying about easymode and still want dps optimization tools + addons which tell them how to play. Edited December 21, 2011 by squiek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaku Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Its gonna be fun to guess who's AFK watching their favorite T.V. Program while trying to down heroics raids Probably because they'll just be standing there. There's no auto attack. Also, people need to stop confsuing combat logs and damage meters. They're not the same thing. Edited December 21, 2011 by Jaku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Only bad players need tools to tell who can't play. Experienced ones can tell you when they see your animations and hear your sound. And even in WoW dps is not that important. The reason nr1 for wipes is not dmg, it's stupid players who die and can't get out of glowing things. Played harder games than wow before and no one ever needed dps meters. For me WoWlings are idiots. Crying about easymode and still want dps optimization tools + addons which tell them how to play.... I really hope you're not being serious. I really do. Because there is no way to tell if the A guy in melee is doing anything else other than bashing his normal attack when it's off cd compared to the B guy that does a perfect rotation and pulls of 10 times his dps. Except an addon like recount/skada. The rest of your comment pretty much shows me you haven't done ANY end-game content in WoW. Even crappy guilds ask for raid logs to check your performance before offering you a trial. The amount of hardmode encounters in WoW that have enrage timers and require perfect dps from everyone is staggering. So yeah, please don't talk about things you clearly have no idea about. Edited December 21, 2011 by Skeelol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkvayder Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Nope. It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid. What's that? No response? It's ok. Pretty much most guilds. Mine for one. If you are getting kicked from guilds for doing low dps maybe its time to fix that issue instead of complaining about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suuupertrooper Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Only bad players dont want a dpsmeter.. u can test out the best rotation, try something new at the bosses if your dps is 2 low, u can see if 1 in the group is bad at dps if u wana do nightmares u cant have a slacker in the group. Why cant bad players just play with bad players? Do u want the gear so much that u need other good dps ppl? Its sad 2 here You dont need a dmg meter to figure out "teh best rotation". Just look at what dmg your abilities do and use your brain regarding cast time resource use etc. It's not rocket sience... Same with group dps, it's not hard to figure out who is slacking in a 4man group with two dps roles... People just want a number where they can judge if you are good/bad/terrible instead of using common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squiek Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I really hope you're not being serious. I really do. Because there is no way to tell if the A guy in melee is doing anything else other than bashing his normal attack when it's off cd compared to the B guy that does a perfect rotation and pulls of 10 times his dps. Except an addon like recount/skada. Ah, now we know what you want to do with dps-meters. To get anti social and kick ppl or do some pseudo elitism. Next we have "gear check in dalaran" and other wow bullcrap. No thanks. I rather take the noobs. In case of perfect rotations, every external macro tool can beat you, why should we take you then? We can have bots doing it perfectly. Edited December 21, 2011 by squiek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerda Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Oh goodie another damage meter debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) You dont need a dmg meter to figure out "teh best rotation". Just look at what dmg your abilities do and use your brain regarding cast time resource use etc. It's not rocket sience... Same with group dps, it's not hard to figure out who is slacking in a 4man group with two dps roles... People just want a number where they can judge if you are good/bad/terrible instead of using common sense. Sure thing, i imagine while you're watching your abilities to come off cd so you can keep your rotation perfect, while looking for stuff on the ground to avoid, while looking at the boss's cast bar to interrupt you also have time to check every move of the other players in your group. It's also implied that ofcourse you know the ins-and-outs of the other guy's class so you can judge it perfectly by the visual style of his attacks. And this is only in 4man. Not even mentioning raids. Ah, now we know what you want to do with dps-meters. To get anti social and kick ppl or do some pseudo elitism. Next we have "gear check in dalaran" and other wow bullcrap. No thanks. I rather take the noobs. Doesn't matter what you rather have. They're being implemented. Edited December 21, 2011 by Skeelol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamor Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I really hope you're not being serious. I really do. Because there is no way to tell if the A guy in melee is doing anything else other than bashing his normal attack when it's off cd compared to the B guy that does a perfect rotation and pulls of 10 times his dps. Of course there is a way. A fellow melee player ALWAYS sees if the guy next to him isn't doing things correctly. Even if the raid leader isn't a melee class, all he has to do is to COMMUNICATE with his fellow raiders. Amazing new system, I know... If you are a good raid leader, your raid members already discuss with you where things went wrong after a wipe and good players will tell you if they made a mistake. It all comes to how successful you are as a raidleader. You do not need any meters for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snuller Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Without a damage meter, we cannot compare classes. I figure the hard raids pushes everyone to their limits, but one might fail those, if some classes (cough, guardian) is severly gimped in dps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Of course there is a way. A fellow melee player ALWAYS sees if the guy next to him isn't doing things correctly. Even if the raid leader isn't a melee class, all he has to do is to COMMUNICATE with his fellow raiders. Amazing new system, I know... If you are a good raid leader, your raid members already discuss with you where things went wrong after a wipe and good players will tell you if they made a mistake. It all comes to how successful you are as a raidleader. You do not need any meters for that.[/color] Thanks for the red text. No, really. Sure thing, i imagine while you're watching your abilities to come off cd so you can keep your rotation perfect, while looking for stuff on the ground to avoid, while looking at the boss's cast bar to interrupt you also have time to check every move of the other players in your group. It's also implied that ofcourse you know the ins-and-outs of the other guy's class so you can judge it perfectly by the visual style of his attacks. And this is only in 4man. Not even mentioning raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squiek Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Still I never used dps tools - I give a **** on it. Your mastered way always works better than elitist stuff you can't master. As I said, WoW raid wipes are not because of damage, it's because of stupid people. The smart ones left when dps tools arrived. All what is left can hardly move out of flames or even do what a addon says - lolz. But the best is, those ppl complain about wow easy mode while they use dps-meters and raid-support tools. Edited December 21, 2011 by squiek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Still I never used dps tools - I give a **** on it. Your mastered way always works better than elitist stuff you can't master. As I said, WoW raid wipes are not because of damage, it's because of stupid people. The smart ones left when dps tools arrived. Sure, pugs wiping on normal raid encounters happen because of not so great people. We're not talking about that here, we're talking about quality raids. Hardmodes which require everyone to play to their max. Edited December 21, 2011 by Skeelol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alerum Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag. what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware! I agree but sometimes these meters help in raids when trying to find out why they can't down a boss before the enrage timer kicks. People who spam DPS and Heal meters to compensate lack of size somewhere else are annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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