The outright lies people are telling regarding bolster.

[Princz]

guys i remember pulling 250K damage on my vanguard @ level 12 and it was ordinary damage before 2.0

Now with new bolster i think those numbers must have gone up.

 

Even before 2.0 you couldnt be an effiecient healer before level 30... that much i remember

With new bolster must have made the 12-29 a real nut for people trying to heal there....

[Scotland]

I'm healing with operative, I don't have bubble or deliverance. x) My biggest heal is kolto injection, which channels 2.5 seconds, which seems to be more than enough for a skilled dps to take a player from around 50% hp to 0. Even if the guy would have kolto probes on him. Kolto infusion is faster, 1.5 seconds, but now has a cd.

 

What he is trying to say, is that you are not designed to deliver extreme healing below lvl 30, the sooner you realise this and spec DPS, the better.

[MusicRider]

Yes, i am. Stop posting now.

 

 

Cheers.

 

LOL. Sure I will, as I thought I was talking to an adult. LOL. O&O.

[Scotland]

LOL. Sure I will, as I thought I was talking to an adult. LOL. O&O.

 

If you cannot see past my sarcasm and derogatory posts, then i'm quite happy to allow you to think i'm a child.

 

Better?

 

EDIT: Have fun googling derogatory.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Scotland

[Seireeni]

What he is trying to say, is that you are not designed to deliver extreme healing below lvl 30, the sooner you realise this and spec DPS, the better.

 

I already realized that healing is horrible in there. I just didn't realize that 10-29 was supposed to be dps deathmathing and thought this was a problem. I mean, shouldn't new people learn what pvp actually is when they start doing it, not think that it's a dps race and then be shocked when they hit level 30?

Also I still think there are things I was able to do pre-2.0 even with level 20 something healer that I'm unable to do now.

[Scotland]

I already realized that healing is horrible in there. I just didn't realize that 10-29 was supposed to be dps deathmathing and thought this was a problem. I mean, shouldn't new people learn what pvp actually is when they start doing it, not think that it's a dps race and then be shocked when they hit level 30?

Also I still think there are things I was able to do pre-2.0 even with level 20 something healer that I'm unable to do now.

 

It is more than just a DPS race, considering they are objective based ..........

[Draqsko]

Yeah, 10-29 is a dps festival, and I don't like it, and I don't think it's the right way to go. People who are new to the game will have no idea how to actually tank or heal in pvp when they hit level 30.

However, before 2.0, if 2 dps were 1vs1ing, no matter which one was better, if I started healing, I could make a difference. Now, I can't, if the enemy dps is good and the friendly dps is not, the enemy dps seems to usually be able to kill the friendly dps while I'm casting.

 

That would happen pre 2.0 as well, if the person you are trying to heal isn't good, doesn't matter how good of an under 30 healer you are, he is going to die. In fact, on my under 30 alts, if I'm 1v1ing as a dps against a bad dps, I say screw the dps, he's not killing me, I go straight for the person trying to heal him instead. You have just made the classic mistake of a noob, put your healer toon into danger to try to keep up a terribad player.

 

PS. Tank classes get guard at level 14, and taunt at level 16. So from level 14 on, a tank can use guard switching to help a healer out by reducing damage going to another person, meaning you are able to get your cast off before said person dies. From level 16 on, the tank can actually reduce damage from the person on the other team with the highest burst quite easily. Your issue is not that healing is bad and dps is too good, your issue is that you are rolling on a team that doesn't have damage mitigation in the form of a tank. This is from a pre 2.0 mentality where a DPS class could be somewhat tanky. Well that's not happening anymore, you need a tank for damage mitigation.

 

PPS. TTK is in no way related to expertise, yes expertise gives a 60% damage increase at max level, but expertise also gives a 37.5% damage reduction at max level. Since the bolster basically gives everyone the same rough expertise level (after testing, it's within 1% difference if you just remove relics because of the borked relics slots bolster), 60% damage increase is exactly mitigated by 37.5% damage reduction. Here's the math:

100 damage * 0.60 damage increase = 160 damage

160 damage * (1 - 0.375 damage reduction) = 100 damage

Do you see it? Try it for yourself. Everyone saying 60% expertise is increasing damage is off their rocker and needs to learn to math. Because it's exactly countered by the 37.5% damage reduction. What you all are seeing, is that tank specs are needed now, because DPS specs cannot tank since tank stats are needed to tank.

 

Tanks are needed in PvP now to help a healer keep someone alive, Tank stats matter now to help the tank stay alive, Tank DPS is actually decent not great but better than it was. Teams without tanks, now get rolled, team with tanks are very hard to kill. GET A TANK.

[MusicRider]

I'm healing with operative, I don't have bubble or deliverance. x) My biggest heal is kolto injection, which channels 2.5 seconds, which seems to be more than enough for a skilled dps to take a player from around 50% hp to 0. Even if the guy would have kolto probes on him. Kolto infusion is faster, 1.5 seconds, but now has a cd.

 

Deliverance ~= Kolto injection. To be honest although I have a l45+ healer scoundrel I can't recall what it was like at l10-20, so I take your word for it. However, you are 2v1. Your dps could bring him down from 50% to 0% as well. You could do too. On a 2v1 the winner is usually the one that has used their cc better and positioned themselves nicely (to avoid getting both mezzed with a flashbang/awe for example, being forced pushed of the area, etc.). The side with the 2 can actually chain stun the lonely wolf and kill him easily. My motto has always been think CC before pewpew.

[axka]

Playing in Dreadguard PvE gear atm, 1990 expertise, 81% surge, 45% crit, which is indeed way better than playing naked. I'm suprised though that I do have more expertise in my pve gear aswell as pretty much any other stat than the people in EWH gear :/

[Seireeni]

It is more than just a DPS race, considering they are objective based ..........

 

You should have been in the huttball match I was in a few hours ago. If someone grabbed the ball, they were usually killed before they got to walk 10 meters. And don't ask me why they didn't pass, it was a 10-29 pug. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them haven't even realized they had the ability.

 

Also in maps like Civil War or Novare, it usually seems to go so that 1 team more or less wipes the other team with their dps before capping. A lot of dps racing in there I think.

[Scotland]

You should have been in the huttball match I was in a few hours ago. If someone grabbed the ball, they were usually killed before they got to walk 10 meters. And don't ask me why they didn't pass, it was a 10-29 pug. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them haven't even realized they had the ability.

 

Also in maps like Civil War or Novare, it usually seems to go so that 1 team more or less wipes the other team with their dps before capping. A lot of dps racing in there I think.

 

You can win all of those matches with 0 DPS if you really wanted to.

[Draqsko]

Playing in Dreadguard PvE gear atm, 1990 expertise, 81% surge, 45% crit, which is indeed way better than playing naked. I'm suprised though that I do have more expertise in my pve gear aswell as pretty much any other stat than the people in EWH gear :/

 

Those people are using relics.. I posted earlier in this thread about that..

 

PVE with relic: 1966 expertise

PVE w/o relic : 1992 expertise

EWH with relic: 1920 expertise

EWH w/o relic: 2016 expertise

Naked: 2004 expertise

 

If the people using PVP gear took the relics off, they would have more expertise than you, but not much more about 1% difference. (2016 vs 1992).

[Scotland]

those people are using relics.. I posted earlier in this thread about that..

 

Pve with relic: 1966 expertise

pve w/o relic : 1992 expertise

ewh with relic: 1920 expertise

ewh w/o relic: 2016 expertise

naked: 2004 expertise

 

if the people using pvp gear took the relics off, they would have more expertise than you, but not much more about 1% difference. (2016 vs 1992).

 

+1

...

[MusicRider]

Playing in Dreadguard PvE gear atm, 1990 expertise, 81% surge, 45% crit, which is indeed way better than playing naked. I'm suprised though that I do have more expertise in my pve gear aswell as pretty much any other stat than the people in EWH gear :/

 

I think they fixed it, at least as expertise goes. In my ewh by removing relics, implants, earpiece, and my pve armor items I have my expertise boosted to a similar level as yours. I don't know about the rest of the stats though. You might have more than me, and although it seems broken the dust will settle once all 50s with wh/ewh gear level to 55 and what remains are sub 55s with pve gear only. Unfortunately they could have handle it in a different way by having the old 1-49, 50-54, 55 ranges for a few weeks and then introduce the new ranges. But anyway.

[Arutar]

Whats your point?

 

Are you trying to say, that if someone cannot achieve what i can achieve(or mainly all of the half decent PVPers this game has) then they have the right to come here and complain that it's broken or they just do not like to be out skilled, out thought and out matched?

 

No I am saying that NOBODY, except apparently you, can ALWAYS LOS the enemy without LOS parts of your team.

 

ALWAYS. Like in in all WZ. With any team. Ever. No matter where on the map. A L W A Y S.

 

Is LOS and Positioning very, very important? Sure it is. I would argue that positioning is probably the most important skill in RWZ.

 

But you based your inital arguments on the proposition that there can NEVER be a situation where

 

1. cover against the enemy is not readily available and

2. entering this cover will LOS parts of your team.

 

While I still think the folly of your statement is quite obvious, I will give you another (albeit very extreme) example:

 

Imagine you teammate and the enemy are in the same spot, i.e. occupy the same hitbox. Can you LOS the enemy without LOS your teammate? No, you can't.

 

End of story.

[WIZBASKY]

Unless they changed it since last night, in my full WH gear I had 1600 expertise. Naked I had 2004. I call BS.

 

I agree, in full WH/EWH gear I had about 22k hp 1700-1800 exp cant recall, I took off all gear except wepaons & generator, all stats went up 24500hp 1950 exp, more damage, I do lose my 4 set bonus + a few % accuracy that's it, that was tested 30 min ago 11.4.12

[Seireeni]

Deliverance ~= Kolto injection. To be honest although I have a l45+ healer scoundrel I can't recall what it was like at l10-20, so I take your word for it. However, you are 2v1. Your dps could bring him down from 50% to 0% as well. You could do too. On a 2v1 the winner is usually the one that has used their cc better and positioned themselves nicely (to avoid getting both mezzed with a flashbang/awe for example, being forced pushed of the area, etc.). The side with the 2 can actually chain stun the lonely wolf and kill him easily. My motto has always been think CC before pewpew.

 

I'm mostly talking about situations where I see 1vs1 going on and decide to make it 1vs2 by starting to heal the ally, i.e. someone calls incs and I rush to the scene. Yeah, the ally dps could bring the guy down, but if enemy is better, not so much. Also I can bring the enemy down, and it usually ends up me finishing the enemy when the ally dps is dead, but that would make me just another dps - and I'd really like to be able to mostly level my healer characters as healers and occasionally dps a little on the side, but it seems I'd be more useful as a dps.

[Berrys]

I don't know why you think any of those details are relevant, but my 36 Commando has 24K HP naked and the equivalent of around 1500 expertise. /thread

 

I dont know why you think you have to be naked to get that, my level 35 sniper has 24k hp fully clothed. And my other stats like Prim Dam and cunning actually go down a fraction when i take everything off.

[Scotland]

No I am saying that NOBODY, except apparently you, can ALWAYS LOS the enemy without LOS parts of your team.

 

ALWAYS. Like in in all WZ. With any team. Ever. No matter where on the map. A L W A Y S.

 

Is LOS and Positioning very, very important? Sure it is. I would argue that positioning is probably the most important skill in RWZ.

 

But you based your inital arguments on the proposition that there can NEVER be a situation where

 

1. cover against the enemy is not readily available and

2. entering this cover will LOS parts of your team.

 

While I still think the folly of your statement is quite obvious, I will give you another (albeit very extreme) example:

 

Imagine you teammate and the enemy are in the same spot, i.e. occupy the same hitbox. Can you LOS the enemy without LOS your teammate? No, you can't.

 

End of story.

 

You can.

 

Would you like me to explain how?

[Princz]

I agree, in full WH/EWH gear I had about 22k hp 1700-1800 exp cant recall, I took off all gear except wepaons & generator, all stats went up 24500hp 1950 exp, more damage, I do lose my 4 set bonus + a few % accuracy that's it, that was tested 30 min ago 11.4.12

 

More specifically the issues we have discovered are how the Bolster system handles Relics and diminishing returns. Currently on live, Bolster is giving too many stats to the Relic slot, meaning if you don’t use a Relic (naked Bolster) you will get more stats than the Relic itself would give. Actually different stats entirely since most Relics have Endurance and a proc effect. This means that taking off Relics will give you more primary damage stat and secondary stats and you will probably lose Endurance. How Bolster looks at Relic slots needs to be redone so that stats it assumes are present or should be present are more in-line with Relics that are present and we are working on that currently.

 

-eric

 

Now.... try to remove only relics and look at the stats again

Edited April 11, 2013 by Princz

[Scotland]

I agree, in full WH/EWH gear I had about 22k hp 1700-1800 exp cant recall, I took off all gear except wepaons & generator, all stats went up 24500hp 1950 exp, more damage, I do lose my 4 set bonus + a few % accuracy that's it, that was tested 30 min ago 11.4.12

 

If with full WH you had only 1700-1800 exp, then you are missing PVP mods/armourings/enhancements/crystal that contain expertise.

 

Swap some out for PVE ones before 2.0 did ya?

[Seireeni]

You can win all of those matches with 0 DPS if you really wanted to.

 

You do that with a random pug on 10-29, when half of the team don't have any interruptions, sometimes with the expection of their 4 second stun, which in some cases deals damage.

[MusicRider]

You should have been in the huttball match I was in a few hours ago. If someone grabbed the ball, they were usually killed before they got to walk 10 meters. And don't ask me why they didn't pass, it was a 10-29 pug. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them haven't even realized they had the ability.

 

Also in maps like Civil War or Novare, it usually seems to go so that 1 team more or less wipes the other team with their dps before capping. A lot of dps racing in there I think.

 

DPS always is nice if everything else fails but it's not always the determining factor for some warzones. Huttball is one of the warzones that the team with the highest dps not always wins. In fact if I play as a dps sage and seriously (rarely ) my dps is ridiculously low in comparison to the other warzones. There might be even a min that I might not have attacked anyone , other than positioning, ccing, pulling/scoring and repositioning. Voidstar is another. Civil war if you control the side nodes can result in a slaughter that you come out with a win. Novara and Hypergates (if you are a bit careful to protect your pylon) are heavy based dps zones, but there should be some that are as such.

 

EDIT: ah yes, sorry, I was thinking for an end game pvp perspective not from an early bracket one. Still though even there people that have experience in hutball know how and where to move and when to dps.

Edited April 11, 2013 by MusicRider

[Draqsko]

I agree, in full WH/EWH gear I had about 22k hp 1700-1800 exp cant recall, I took off all gear except wepaons & generator, all stats went up 24500hp 1950 exp, more damage, I do lose my 4 set bonus + a few % accuracy that's it, that was tested 30 min ago 11.4.12

 

Just take the relics off.. The rest of the slots bolster just fine, it's the relic slots that are screwing up the bolster, go look back a few pages you'll see my post on it http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6129685&postcount=34.

 

Now keep in mind, my PVE gear is min maxed, my PVP is not min maxed, that's why there's a bigger difference in main stat, and secondary stats. Rolling in my PVE gear without relics, I am destroying people who are naked. My guildie was using his min maxed PVP gear and destroying naked people as well, we both topped the damage charts against naked people, doing 500k+ damage, as long as we took the relics off. Put the relics on, and bolster goes totally berserk and screws you over.

[Arutar]

You can.

 

Would you like me to explain how?

 

Yes, please enlighten us, how you LOS to player A and not player B if they both occupy the exact same spot.