Give Tanks and Healers a reason to que

[Logisitcs]

There's no incentive to que anymore after you've done your first one, and most of the time the tanks are doing it with their guilds. Even worse, at lower levels, there's just no reason at all to que when WZ's give better exp.

 

WoW's (and only WoW's unfortunately) LFG que is fast at lower levels because the dungeons and the quests associated with said dungeon give MASSIVE exp with/without heirlooms equipped. So tanks and healers LEVEL SOLELY in dungeons, bringing down the que times for dps dramatically.

 

And end-game there's the exotic satchel, another incentive to get healers and tanks to que! This is what's needed to improve group finder, give the tanks and healers something to que for aside from a measly 5 BH comms.

If they're not going to make it x-server than something else needs to be done, they just can't leave it as is!

 

SO BIOWARE... boost the experience gained in flashpoints and put flashpoint quests in the actual instance that award good experience as well as gear! Allow tanks and healers to level through flashpoints and flashpoints alone!

 

This group finder is archaic and crude, and it baffles me as to why Bioware just doesn't copy and paste what other games have done instead of trying to be edgy only to fall flat on their face.

 

ALSO.. and I should put this in suggestions, too bad they don't check...

Throw out that crap Legacy Birthright/Inheritance garbage. Add in full sets of MODS/ARMORINGS etc. that improve upon leveling and tack on 2x the exp on the set!

 

The shortage of tanks/healers is NOT THE COMMUNITY'S problem to solve! It rests solely on the developer, meaning YOU Bioware! So do something about it!

[Toweleeeie]

trying to be edgy only to fall flat on their face.

 

Best part of your rant and its so true.

 

Problem is groups are 4 not 5 or even 6. To many DPS to bring only 2 at a time.

 

Have you tried rolling all 3 types?

 

I have a Tank, Healer, and DPS on both sides.

[Logisitcs]

I actually have a healer, and I still think the que for FP's takes too long as a healer!

There's no tanks queing and why should they?! They get absolutely nothing!

[Toweleeeie]

I actually have a healer, and I still think the que for FP's takes too long as a healer!

There's no tanks queing and why should they?! They get absolutely nothing!

 

Plus tanking in this game is like pulling teeth.

[Jossajus]

As a tank I don't think that tanks/healers should be given anything extra for queuing. WoW tried this and it reduced queue times at first and then they bumped back up again. Here's why:

 

1) More tanks / healers queue for the extra stuff.

 

2) Queue times improve.

 

3) More DPS queue because there are shorter queue times.

 

4) Queue times suck again.

 

Furthermore, you seem to be a proponent of x server GF, which is just a horrible idea, and here's why.

 

1) As of now, a toon (and legacy) gain rep on a particular server. If they are ***** they get kicked/ignored by the tank/healer, and if they are really bad, he tells his guildies, friends, and the fleet that "So-and-so is a dick. Don't group with him. As a tank, if a guildie or friend advise me to ignore someone I will, no questions asked. DPS are a dime a dozen and that's one more dick I don't have to deal with.

 

2) With xServer, that accountability is gone. It would promote ninja looting and griefing. A DPS knows that even if this tank / healer kick/ignore him, he can still group with every tank/healer in the game. In this situation, he may deem it worth it to ninja loot a few times and steal gear for companions/alts/etc. Once every DPS starts doing it "once in a while," ninja looting will become a common occurence, not the exception.

 

3) There's nothing to gain. You would still see the same ratio of tanks/healers/DPS, there would just be more of all of them. This might actually hurt some servers that have tolerable queue times.

 

No, the way to make Tanks/Healers queue is to not grief them: DON'T steal their gear for Doc or Quinn or Mako or whoever. Follow simple ettiquette like letting the tank pull first and let him build aggro before raining down your destruction AOE stuff. Don't rage at him if he makes a mistake (we are all human), and KNOW YOUR ROLE, KNOW YOUR CLASS, and above all, DON'T BE A DICK. If DPS did these things I'd probably level directly through FPS and run more than 1 a day for end game.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Jossajus

[Tachenko_Yuri]

 

The shortage of tanks/healers is NOT THE COMMUNITY'S problem to solve! It rests solely on the developer, meaning YOU Bioware! So do something about it!

 

it isn't the developer's problem.

 

People can't be arsed to learn.

 

People can't be arsed to be taught.

 

People don't want to take responsability.

 

No, it isn't the developer's problem. Try speaking to all those alpha-male wannabes , marauder/sentinel-jumping-before-the-tank-into-a-mob-and-pulling-another-3-in-the-process kids

 

Also ,There's so few tanks that most of the time it is the tank the last bit of the puzzle for a PUG to form. And i love it

 

So, no. it isn't developer's problem.

[Logisitcs]

As a tank I don't think that tanks/healers should be given anything extra for queuing. WoW tried this and it reduced queue times at first and then they bumped back up again. Here's why:

 

1) More tanks / healers queue for the extra stuff.

 

2) Queue times improve.

 

3) More DPS queue because there are shorter queue times.

 

This makes no sense, why are more DPS queing, they were already in the pool to begin with. And I have a sneaking suspicion you don't really know how Call to Arms works in WoW...

 

4) Queue times suck again.

 

No it actually improves

 

Furthermore, you seem to be a proponent of x server GF, which is just a horrible idea, and here's why.

 

LOL, ONE line in my post! I didn't say, "Put in X-server now!", it was simply, "If you're not gonna do it then do something else."

Relax. X-server was never the gripe

 

-SNIP-

 

No, the way to make Tanks/Healers queue is to not grief them: DON'T steal their gear for Doc or Quinn or Mako or whoever. Follow simple ettiquette like letting the tank pull first and let him build aggro before raining down your destruction AOE stuff. Don't rage at him if he makes a mistake (we are all human), and KNOW YOUR ROLE, KNOW YOUR CLASS, and above all, DON'T BE A DICK. If DPS did these things I'd probably level directly through FPS and run more than 1 a day for end game.

 

That's why the extra incentives for tanks/healers is very much justified. They go through even more work than the dps and should be rewarded for it.

 

The quest rewards for in-flashpoint quests can alleviate the loot lost either by the tank or dps because it's individualized, and the boosted exp more than makes up for it.

 

 

The situation is not fine, and leaving it to the hands of the players is a big no no

[Morninwoods]

Gotta love when DPS complain about queue times.

[Sentanta]

They get absolutely nothing!

 

Except abuse - I hated doing pugs on my tanks so much I only run with my guild now - I am not saying I didn't make the odd mistake but when you have some arse of a dps running ahead of the group and pulling aggro from 2 groups of mobs at once then giving out crap to the tank for not taunting them away from him is just too much to bear!

Edited April 7, 2013 by Sentanta

[elvavwiel]

Play smart, queue for two roles and have field respec? I like to play dps, but i usually have a shield gen on my characters that can also tank. And dps to healing is a no brainer. It takes about a minute of work at most to fully transition to the 'offspec'. I know that its only a really feasible thing to do for subscribers but its still something that lessens the load.

[Logisitcs]

Are some of you not reading properly?

 

Are you all deluded?

 

Here ITT most are saying, "The community needs to smarten up. Then tanks will que." What recent MMO has the community EVER smartened up? EVERY MMO has these same type of players so expecting the swtor community to automatically "get-it" is a fool's errand!

 

The easier and BY FAR logical method would be to entice tanks and healers with additional awards!

 

Oh and I'm a healer also, waiting 15 minutes minimum for a FP compared to instant/5-10 minutes in other games is

 

Story mode operation finder is just a huge waste, rarely pops. I went a whole play session on my merc with it never coming up. Why is it there

[TyrKartelos]

I love how this turned into a bash DPS thread.

 

I have played in all three roles, and have seen a-hole tanks and healers, I've seen tanks run ahead to pull the next mob with less than 50% health, I've seen healers who can heal for garbage. Granted there are more dps around, but they arent the only a-holes on the internet.

[JimG]

There are always going to be more DPS than tanks or healers in every game. DPS can be played solo style. Now, a good DPS player doesn't pull aggro from the tank, keeps adds off healers, etc., but it's a class that can be played with tunnel vision. Tanks and healers require keeping track of others in the group, taking actions to protect others in the group, use of strategy, etc. There's a lot of people out there who have no interest in anyone except themselves and so DPS is more suited to them than the other roles which require someone to be responsible for other group members. That has nothing to do with incentives, rewards, etc. Giving a disproportionate amount of loot or rewards to tanks or healers would just mean that these bad DPS players would start running tanks or healers just to get better loot and there would be more group-wipes....because a bad player is still a bad player, no matter what class you put them in.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of players don't want to do anything unless a bunch of loot is showered upon them. For example, open world PVP doesn't work because people are more interested in the loot instead of trying to battle each other. So people start trading objectives, etc. instead of PVP'ing just to get their dailies or weeklies done. Any MMO is going to have its share of power-levelers and min/max'ers who are obsessed with how much loot they get per second or what reward they are given for tying their shoes. However, this is a portion of the player-base and the game shouldn't be structured to cater to those people. There are a lot of us who actually enjoy playing the game and don't need a treasure chest of loot every time we do something.

[Hockaday]

Tanks have reason to queue. The same as healers and dps. The problem may be that after a certain point, there isn't much of a reason to queue after your dhm.

 

Now, I personally would like to gear out my companions in bh etc gear, but you can't really need on the loot they do (unless it's your class, then you can sneak it). So I prefer to run with pre-mades etc.

[TheBBP]

it isn't the developer's problem.

 

People can't be arsed to learn.

 

People can't be arsed to be taught.

 

People don't want to take responsability.

 

No, it isn't the developer's problem. Try speaking to all those alpha-male wannabes , marauder/sentinel-jumping-before-the-tank-into-a-mob-and-pulling-another-3-in-the-process kids

 

Also ,There's so few tanks that most of the time it is the tank the last bit of the puzzle for a PUG to form. And i love it

 

So, no. it isn't developer's problem.

This is very true. It even goes the other way. Last night I pugged a group-finder HM and the tank was geared enough but did not know the Hard Mode yet. He was patient and very open to suggestion, however, the healer and the other DPS got bent, told him to "lern2play" and left. I stayed with the guy, we got replacements in a matter of minutes and the gent did well taking suggestions and learning what was taught.

 

This whole process is a community problem.

[Ryluk_Shouja]

Play smart, queue for two roles and have field respec? I like to play dps, but i usually have a shield gen on my characters that can also tank. And dps to healing is a no brainer. It takes about a minute of work at most to fully transition to the 'offspec'. I know that its only a really feasible thing to do for subscribers but its still something that lessens the load.

 

As a healer, I will immediately votekick a tank in dps gear, or at the VERY least request that be get a tanking set. I would rather heal a recruit tank set player than a dread guard deeps set player. Sorry if you get thus ****** end of the stick but tanks need defensive stats in pugs. Making my job more difficult because you can't be bothered is something I will not stand for. I'll pull out my xalek if I have to.

[oakamp]

I actually have a healer, and I still think the que for FP's takes too long as a healer!

There's no tanks queing and why should they?! They get absolutely nothing!

 

ill tell u why,

cause tank sux at pvp after 1.3,

that's why tanks dont q fp,

only if BW roll back to patch 1.3,

then i might consider to roll back to play a tank,

otherwise, NO WAY.

 

btw, why should ppl q fp after they r geared,

u can gear up fast if u have a healthy and AVERAGE players guild whom play at same TIME ZONE.

[Jeweledleah]

I play healers a lot and tanks some. no amount of incentives (short of ability to learn points towards subscription costs) will convinced me to start queuing more on my tanks, because while I enjoy it, I also find it draining. I 'm not often in a mood for that. couple that with the fact that apparently on my server pubs almost never run leveling flashpoints, and I'm a little afraid to take my 50 vanguard into random pugs, into hardmodes that I'm completely unfamiliar with on any class. I queue on my healers a lot as it is, mainly because I enjoy healing and because I don't need to know the flashpoint as well, I can just follow the group, stay out of the bad, and heal.

 

I have characters in WoW that back before cross realm zones I used to tank on. 3 of them in fact. I haven't tanked since before last expansion. and I'm not sure I'm going to start again. not even for super rare mounts and pets.

 

now. people who dislike healing/tanking will not suddenly enjoy it if given extra incentives. but we might get more people in our groups that don't know what they are doing, don't want to learn and just in it for the extra loot, making it stressful for everyone else, building extra resentment etc.

 

so what is the solution? the only one I can think of is increasing the group size to allow for more dps. but that would require extensive rebalancing of every single flashpoint in a game. not to mention the 4 man size in part was meant to allow leveling people (and to be honest, I've done that with some of the hardmodes as well - with enough presence and decent gear, companion tanks are not much different to heal than actual tanks. easier in some ways) to fill in the gaps with companions if needed and not be so dependant on finding an entire group anymore.

 

in short - there is no easy solution, and adding incentives is a temporary bandaid at best.

[Jossajus]

Are some of you not reading properly?

 

Are you all deluded?

 

Here ITT most are saying, "The community needs to smarten up. Then tanks will que." What recent MMO has the community EVER smartened up? EVERY MMO has these same type of players so expecting the swtor community to automatically "get-it" is a fool's errand!

 

The easier and BY FAR logical method would be to entice tanks and healers with additional awards!

 

Oh and I'm a healer also, waiting 15 minutes minimum for a FP compared to instant/5-10 minutes in other games is

 

Story mode operation finder is just a huge waste, rarely pops. I went a whole play session on my merc with it never coming up. Why is it there

 

As someone who tanks almost exclusively, I'll say it again. I like FPS. I run them daily with my guildies (even after I have the daily comms) The reason I don't queue for PuG's is because the COMMUNITY sucks. If the community wasn't full of gear-ninjaing db's who don't know how to dd properly, then I would queue for Pugs. And any gear you could offer me by queueing as a tank I'll get when I queue as a premade with guildies.

[Uvirith]

Gotta love when DPS complain about queue times.

What do you want them to do? Reroll as Heal or Tank?

Do you really want healer and tanks in your group who hate tanking or healing?

[Kirameki]

What do you want them to do? Reroll as Heal or Tank?

Do you really want healer and tanks in your group who hate tanking or healing?

 

The reason why loads of tanks/healers hate going for FP/OPS is the ammount of abuse they get from the COMMUNITY. No ammount of freebies from the dev team can make me suffer the abuse (ninja-ing/plain stupidity) from a random derp in a PUG. Especially since F2P launched it became a living hell to join certain FP's.

[stockmks]

I dont think experience is the problem.. if you're keen on it, you can get cartel flashpoint xp boosts for ~1k each, at least on my server.

 

What i've found annoying for tanking at least is:

 

- Depending on your current level and flaspoint brackets, you can easily get queued into flashpoints where the mobs are grey (so you only there for daily comms).

- Depending on your luck (and possibly related to the above), every character with a lightsaber thinks they can also tank, and get jollies out of not saying anything when you offer to let them tank and tank anyway. Perhaps the black talon and essles sets a bad example for new players. Or they're all from wow, or they all pvp players who got lost and ended up in a flashpoint. There's no other explanation for this.

- If you're not playing in US prime time, the queue times are as long as for any other role.

 

My experiences in tanking now make me double check the fp to run, the classes of the dps, and the levels of the dps. I do like TOR, and to keep me interested i only go in when the mix is right to keep my enjoyment up. Perhaps somehow influencing the above issues via game mechanics (in honestly, i have no idea how), at least for me would increase the willingness to tank.

 

Having said, i really enjoyed dungeon levelling in wow.. it does work here also id say.

[FeelFlow]

This is slightly different, but I think that you should only be able to need on drops if the item has the primary stat of your main (in FPs).

 

I'm starting to get out off running FPs as many (probably F2P) players who don't 'get' the game - or MMOs - seem to be needing on nearly everything that drops in FPs - particularly if it purple mods - even if they and their early companions can't even use it.

 

So for me - yeah the XP is ok but I can probably get just as much or more XP by completing missions on planets and gearing up on the GTN.

[platinumruggo]

I'll agree on one thing op, they definitely need to get rid of the legacy/birthright gear that doesn't do anything but give an extra boost in stats that could easily be achieved through proper gearing. I feel like gaining legacy xp is just part of the norm now and not something to actually look forward to, especially since damn near everything in the legacy panel can be bought through cartel coins. Why would I waste my time getting my legacy to level 50 to get something if I can buy it when my level is at 15 for like 200 cc's?

 

On the topic at hand, I don't know what server you're on or when you're queuing up but I know when I had my scoundrel healer, I was finding groups for fp's so *********** quick I wouldn't even have time to take a sip of my drink.

[FeelFlow]

Would this be a good incentive (for everyone):

 

Every time you down a boss, they drop a token piece of nice random gear for that levelue its an added extra.

 

When you down the end boss, they drop a BOP token for that FP.

 

Back on Fleet there would be a vendor for each FP. Each item they carry could be swapped for x1 end boss token. As you might be able to guess, these would be the current drops for each FP. This way, you get to choose the gear that you want and be able to gear up your companions if you want.