New PVP patch notes are completely bogus

[danielearley]

How on earth did this discussion get changed into PVE against PVP! If your reading PVP forum is because you enjoy PVP.

 

So can we avoid the crap about PVE and concentrate on the actual discussion on whether or not Bolster is a good or bad thing.

 

The choices are,

 

Should the fight be equal

 

or

 

Should the fight be determined by the gear you have accumulated by working hard at PVP?

 

Although I like the Gear I can get and enjoy getting the commendations to get it. I would prefer to fight people on an equal footing and not just stomp all over someone without it, I for one find no fun in this. (ok it was fun when I first got EWH, but it's not challenging anymore)

So as I see it, if you want it based on gear then you prefer the challenge of grinding gear, not the Challenge of Beating an adversary.

[Atramar]

They will all tell you they need the gear because its a gating mechanic, toward new content. The Truth is all they want is the chance to have thier character aquire the Super "Lightsaber of Pwn", "Blaster of Unloaded Doom", "Armor of Pulsing Force". Armegeddon and Betrayer of Humanity (wow references) Type things that drop from raids so they can appear bad "buttes" to people. If it was only about new seeing story content, all they would need it to figure out the AI fight, then run it using the gear the already have. Don't believe it. There is a reason raiders run raids week after week, and get burned out, yet still do it, and its not because they want to see the story for the 20th time.. Its called the new "Shiny" that makes them look pimp and elite, and gives them better stats than anyone else.

 

.....something they obviosely do not want PvPers to have.

 

But pvp bolster will be just to entry level... min-maxed elite conqueror will pretty much still stomp newcomer, but now he will need to work for it a bit harder.

only 2 things that will change,

is that a fresh 55 of a PRO player, will be able to kill min-max elite conqueror (and this is what laudest screamers are afraid of) if he is good enouth and min-maxer bad enouth

and

a fresh 55 who doesn't know why he is in a WZ will be a better cannon fodder. not much better, but a lot better then fresh 50 in pve greens now.

[BoushhDC]

How on earth did this discussion get changed into PVE against PVP! If your reading PVP forum is because you enjoy PVP.

 

False assumption. PvE'ers aren't barred from reading (or posting to) this forum. lol.

[Kovaos]

False assumption. PvE'ers aren't barred from reading (or posting to) this forum. lol.

 

And it is still the PvPers who are complaining and want this "equality."

[BoushhDC]

And it is still the PvPers who are complaining and want this "equality."

 

Another false assumption. I guarantee you there are PvE'ers posting here in this thread. Go ahead and scroll up and back, I'll wait.

[Kovaos]

Another false assumption. I guarantee you there are PvE'ers posting here in this thread. Go ahead and scroll up and back, I'll wait.

 

I wasn't disagreeing with you bruh. I know there are PvEers and PvPers monitoring all threads.

 

I will say the majority of the posts of people whining about the boost are PvPers who want to faceroll noobs or under geared players.

 

Edit: This same group are the ones crying for a boost when they attempt PvE content.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Kovaos

[BoushhDC]

I wasn't disagreeing with you bruh. I know there are PvEers and PvPers monitoring all threads.

 

I will say the majority of the posts of people whining about the boost are PvPers who want to faceroll noobs or under geared players.

 

Edit: This same group are the ones crying for a boost when they attempt PvE content.

 

I think you might be a little too quick to assign blanket assumptions to people's motivations for whatever reason, since I don't know where you come down in this discussion. I can speak for myself however, even though I've seen some similar sentiments, and I can say that any critique I have about the changes has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to "facerolling noobs or undergeared players." In one post, for example, I mention a lvl 46 scoundrel healer I have that will be much easier when I don't have to burn all my energy on a single player that's taking an inordinate amount of damage because they are wearing crap gear (to name another scenario). However, I have another alt that is dps in the under 50 bracket where my roll is understandably different. Right now, when you go up against another PUG, you need to prioritize your targets and they are largely contextual. You know that you might get some level 49s that are going to be comparatively tough nuts to crack especially with certain classes, and occasionally you are going to see people that haven't yet chosen their advanced class. I realize this will be tantamount to profiling in the real world, but you're probably going to try to burn down that lower guy before you go after the tougher guy. Basically you can *see* which of those are going to be squishiest, the others you have to test them out to find out which you can burn down faster, and currently, that might be because of gear, lack of experience (w/ their class or in the particular WZ), or even some classes that are way more vulnerable in certain WZs vs. others.

 

I was in a guild that, as 50s, before all the servers started merging, you get to recognizing opponents. So we'd look at the other team on the scoreboard afterwards. I'd be mostly looking at the healers and I kept a notebook with their names and how much they healed. They'd get classified into tiers: people that did 200k+ healing, 350k+, 500k+ healing, etc. Then the target priorities were set accordingly when next we'd encounter any of them in the future. People would get added, or notes be made when they'd repec to damage from healing, etc. I kept the list because I was often leader and did most of the marking (before they made it to where anyone could do it) but my guildies would also keep lists to update mine when they were in WZs at other times w/o me. When you're serious about winning in PvP, that's just some of what you do. And if you find that someone is particularly squishy, that's just one more criteria you use, again contextually, when you are prioritizing in pursuit of your main goal which is to beat the other team. If that's not your goal in PvP at all times, then you're not doing it right.

 

Since launch there have been many, MANY more changes to PvP than PvE by comparison. People either adapted or left the game, for those reasons or for others. I think it's a statistically safe statement to make that more people have left the game than are left playing it from before f2p, by ALOT. I'm not making any comment about f2p other than to use it as a benchmark in the timeline, btw. I've been a part of 3 different guilds that have left the game, the last one had been arguably the top PvP guild on my server so I know for certain they left over reasons related to PvP. There are a couple of players that stayed that have all scattered to the winds, but it was a very large PvP centric guild that made a mass exodus, not unlike another poster's recounting in this thread of similar circumstances (although much earlier in the game's timeline).

 

As far as your edited comment section goes, again, I can only speak for myself, but I figure, okay, PvE'ers have affected change on PvP before and now that some changes are coming along in 2.0 that will also specifically benefit them, then it's probably time for a little quid pro quo: you get something, we get something. Nothing more insidious than that. Honestly, probably most PvP'ers probably won't care about it at all, but it's time for all parties to have some skin in the game. If you're going to make changes to our stuff, then you should also get some changes to your stuff. After all, it's not like it has taken no time commitment to adapt to all the changes to PvP since launch. There was an associated opportunity cost... and now it's time to begin to settle accounts just a leeeeetle bit.

[islander]

Nah, it's different. In PvE the 'opposition' is controlled by the devs, the stat lvl of the opposition is determined by the mode you select. This gives devs a definite balancing point.

 

Now for PVP obviously players are hte opposition, and when you have players fighting each other you want skill to outweigh gear.

 

Smells like hypocrisy to me.

[Jadescythe]

They essentially made it so that you can't show up in anything worse than the recruit gear equivalent (by bolstering everyone to a base level) and made that level closer to what the higher tier gear will be in order to close the gear gap some. Takeaways:

 

1) you won't have to complain about people in level 40 greens in your warzone anymore whether they want to or not

2) you can still get better gear and allocate your stats appropriately by PvPing

3) everyone wins?

 

What is there to complain about again?

[cycao]

They essentially made it so that you can't show up in anything worse than the recruit gear equivalent (by bolstering everyone to a base level) and made that level closer to what the higher tier gear will be in order to close the gear gap some. Takeaways:

 

1) you won't have to complain about people in level 40 greens in your warzone anymore whether they want to or not

2) you can still get better gear and allocate your stats appropriately by PvPing

3) ??????

4) PROFIT!

 

What is there to complain about again?

 

Fixed that for you.

[Kovaos]

They essentially made it so that you can't show up in anything worse than the recruit gear equivalent (by bolstering everyone to a base level) and made that level closer to what the higher tier gear will be in order to close the gear gap some. Takeaways:

 

1) you won't have to complain about people in level 40 greens in your warzone anymore whether they want to or not

2) you can still get better gear and allocate your stats appropriately by PvPing

3) everyone wins?

 

What is there to complain about again?

 

Exactly. They are delivering a solution to all the QQ about undergeared players queuing.

[Kovaos]

i think you might be a little too quick to assign blanket assumptions to people's motivations for whatever reason, since i don't know where you come down in this discussion. I can speak for myself however, even though i've seen some similar sentiments, and i can say that any critique i have about the changes has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to "facerolling noobs or undergeared players." in one post, for example, i mention a lvl 46 scoundrel healer i have that will be much easier when i don't have to burn all my energy on a single player that's taking an inordinate amount of damage because they are wearing crap gear (to name another scenario). However, i have another alt that is dps in the under 50 bracket where my roll is understandably different. Right now, when you go up against another pug, you need to prioritize your targets and they are largely contextual. You know that you might get some level 49s that are going to be comparatively tough nuts to crack especially with certain classes, and occasionally you are going to see people that haven't yet chosen their advanced class. I realize this will be tantamount to profiling in the real world, but you're probably going to try to burn down that lower guy before you go after the tougher guy. Basically you can *see* which of those are going to be squishiest, the others you have to test them out to find out which you can burn down faster, and currently, that might be because of gear, lack of experience (w/ their class or in the particular wz), or even some classes that are way more vulnerable in certain wzs vs. Others.

 

I was in a guild that, as 50s, before all the servers started merging, you get to recognizing opponents. So we'd look at the other team on the scoreboard afterwards. I'd be mostly looking at the healers and i kept a notebook with their names and how much they healed. They'd get classified into tiers: People that did 200k+ healing, 350k+, 500k+ healing, etc. Then the target priorities were set accordingly when next we'd encounter any of them in the future. People would get added, or notes be made when they'd repec to damage from healing, etc. I kept the list because i was often leader and did most of the marking (before they made it to where anyone could do it) but my guildies would also keep lists to update mine when they were in wzs at other times w/o me. When you're serious about winning in pvp, that's just some of what you do. And if you find that someone is particularly squishy, that's just one more criteria you use, again contextually, when you are prioritizing in pursuit of your main goal which is to beat the other team. If that's not your goal in pvp at all times, then you're not doing it right.

 

since launch there have been many, many more changes to pvp than pve by comparison. People either adapted or left the game, for those reasons or for others. I think it's a statistically safe statement to make that more people have left the game than are left playing it from before f2p, by alot. I'm not making any comment about f2p other than to use it as a benchmark in the timeline, btw. I've been a part of 3 different guilds that have left the game, the last one had been arguably the top pvp guild on my server so i know for certain they left over reasons related to pvp. There are a couple of players that stayed that have all scattered to the winds, but it was a very large pvp centric guild that made a mass exodus, not unlike another poster's recounting in this thread of similar circumstances (although much earlier in the game's timeline).

 

As far as your edited comment section goes, again, i can only speak for myself, but i figure, okay, pve'ers have affected change on pvp before and now that some changes are coming along in 2.0 that will also specifically benefit them, then it's probably time for a little quid pro quo: You get something, we get something. Nothing more insidious than that. Honestly, probably most pvp'ers probably won't care about it at all, but it's time for all parties to have some skin in the game. If you're going to make changes to our stuff, then you should also get some changes to your stuff. After all, it's not like it has taken no time commitment to adapt to all the changes to pvp since launch. There was an associated opportunity cost... And now it's time to begin to settle accounts just a leeeeetle bit.

 

ain't nobody got time for dat!

[BoushhDC]

They essentially made it so that you can't show up in anything worse than the recruit gear equivalent (by bolstering everyone to a base level) and made that level closer to what the higher tier gear will be in order to close the gear gap some. Takeaways:

 

1) you won't have to complain about people in level 40 greens in your warzone anymore whether they want to or not

2) you can still get better gear and allocate your stats appropriately by PvPing

3) everyone wins?

 

What is there to complain about again?

 

The economy.

 

With SWTOR going to f2p and the advent of the Cartel Market, there has been a dearth of adaptive gear to hit the market. While this meant that the armor & weapons that crafters were making took a steep drop in demand, the demand for armoring, mods, enhancements, barrels & crystals went way up to offset it. Because the way bolster works, serious pvp'ers are some of the best customers because they are always the most keen to keep their gear updated every couple of levels.... well, they WERE, as of when 2.0 hits. With 2.0 and everyone that goes into the WZ can go in with their crappiest green gear that they NEVER have to update, what happens? Hmm?

 

Don't worry, clearly BW didn't think of that either. :/

Edited April 8, 2013 by BoushhDC

[BoushhDC]

Exactly....

 

No. See? You don't read and you don't think. NOT everyone wins and not because you, with your fanboy blinder on, thinks the only dissent or critique is motivated by the desire to "faceroll noobs." Refer to my response to him just one post above.

Edited April 8, 2013 by BoushhDC

[cycao]

[/color][/size]

 

The economy.

 

With SWTOR going to f2p and the advent of the Cartel Market, there has been a dearth of adaptive gear to hit the market. While this meant that the armor & weapons that crafters were making took a steep drop in demand, the demand for armoring, mods, enhancements, barrels & crystals went way up to offset it. Because the way bolster works, serious pvp'ers are some of the best customers because they are always the most keen to keep their gear updated every level.... well, they WERE, as of when 2.0 hits. With 2.0 and everyone that goes into the WZ can go in with their crappiest green gear that they NEVER have to update, what happens? Hmm?

 

Don't worry, clearly BW didn't think of that either. :/

 

I don't know one person who is good at PvP who does not intend to do this next gear grind. From what I know someone in min/maxed will have an edge over someone with 0 PvP gear, just not as extreme as it is now.

[Kovaos]

No. See? You don't read and you don't think. NOT everyone wins and not because you, with your fanboy blinder on, thinks the only dissent or critique is motivated by "facerolling noobs." Refer to my response to him just one post above.

 

You seem to be the one incapable of reading other posts. It's fine bruh. Stop raging over nothing. So what if people wear greens? They won't stay in greens. And this way if someone on your team is in greens it won't be such a handicap.

 

Rage some more bruh. This bolster system is staying! woot woot!

[BoushhDC]

I don't know one person who is good at PvP who does not intend to do this next gear grind. From what I know someone in min/maxed will have an edge over someone with 0 PvP gear, just not as extreme as it is now.

 

My post is referring to the under cap bracket(s) of PvP, not the Cap bracket(s) (currently 50 soon to be 55).

Edited April 8, 2013 by BoushhDC

[BoushhDC]

You seem to be the one incapable of reading other posts. It's fine bruh. Stop raging over nothing. So what if people wear greens? They won't stay in greens. And this way if someone on your team is in greens it won't be such a handicap.

 

Rage some more bruh. This bolster system is staying! woot woot!

 

*I* don't read posts? lmao. You posted to one of my posts just to say that you didn't read it. Pfft.

 

I've read every post and see varying perspectives, with some salient points... none of which that have been contained in any of your posts.

 

But I'm not surprised, you won't even acknowledge any one else's point when they're right, nor acknowledge when someone else is wrong when it doesn't support your position. Keep it up Kowakian brains! LOL.

Edited April 8, 2013 by BoushhDC

[Kovaos]

I've read every post and see varying perspectives, with some salient points... none of which that have been contained in any of your posts.

 

But I'm not surprised, you won't even acknowledge any one else's point when they're right. Keep it up fanboy.

 

All you've done is spewed a bunch of incoherent crap. Most of it too boring to even bear to read. You're being unrealistic and nonsensical. You can theorize all you want and try to rationalize what you think is a good idea, and the rest of us will keeping logging and learn the game at hand.

 

Again, the only ones worried about the bolster system are the ones that are worried they can no longer steam roll under geared players. You're afraid of impending embarrassment. Hopefully the bolster system will attune your skills.

[BoushhDC]

All you've done is spewed a bunch of incoherent crap. Most of it too boring to even bear to read. You're being unrealistic and nonsensical. You can theorize all you want and try to rationalize what you think is a good idea, and the rest of us will keeping logging and learn the game at hand.

 

Again, the only ones worried about the bolster system are the ones that are worried they can no longer steam roll under geared players. You're afraid of impending embarrassment. Hopefully the bolster system will attune your skills.

 

To bad there's no bolster system in real life for reading, comprehension and logical thought, ay? LOL. Troll on, little man. Hahahahhahahahaha.

Edited April 8, 2013 by BoushhDC

[Jadescythe]

[/color][/size]

 

The economy.

 

With SWTOR going to f2p and the advent of the Cartel Market, there has been a dearth of adaptive gear to hit the market. While this meant that the armor & weapons that crafters were making took a steep drop in demand, the demand for armoring, mods, enhancements, barrels & crystals went way up to offset it. Because the way bolster works, serious pvp'ers are some of the best customers because they are always the most keen to keep their gear updated every couple of levels.... well, they WERE, as of when 2.0 hits. With 2.0 and everyone that goes into the WZ can go in with their crappiest green gear that they NEVER have to update, what happens? Hmm?

 

Don't worry, clearly BW didn't think of that either. :/

 

I will say 2 things in reply to this misguided line of thinking.

 

1) You yourself state that it is PvPers that are spending all of their credits on upgrading gear. Why do they have to be second class citizens to those who level through questing and are given level appropriate gear along the way? Just to feed your need to sell junk on the GTN? Considering credits given are already far less than you can get through questing (leveling, dailies, FPs/Ops), why make this segment of the population waste credits to be competitive while leveling?

 

2) I'd much prefer putting everyone on a more level playing ground than having to worry about the 10k HP, 800 strength, level 46 marauder in my warzones. If it takes away some of the need for crafted items in order to make warzones more competitive, bring it on. There are still plenty of other niches for crafting to fill that aren't going anywhere.

 

Honestly, PvPers don't care about other PvPers, I'm not sure why you'd think they care what happens to crafters.

[Genttry]

The fact that they are rewarding people who take no time to get their gear, have no idea how to play or gear their class, and then queue for warzones expecting to get carried by those of us who do is just ridiculous to me

 

congratulations you have no idea how to play the game so you get EXTRA bolster in warzone

 

 

in my opinion over the last year bioware has been focusing on the wrong group of people. Trying to make the game easier for those players and making it more difficult for us to use the knowledge we have of the game to be better. If i spend the time farming money, and mods and armorings or augments I get less of a bolster in a warzone.

 

Focus on encouraging players to learn how to improve their own character... not sit in their own ignorance and not have any motivation to improve.

 

The players who are bad are the temporary ones. The ones who are good are the loyal ones who will subscribe to bioware, giving them the money to maintain the game.

 

Keep nerfing us and we're all gonna leave when the next mmo comes along. Because for the last couple of years thats all we've been doing looking for a game that pits skill against skill, not caters to all the baddies who flock to this kind of game hoping to be carried, or that it will get easier and easier until they can play it like lego batman or little big planet. (great games, but not what im looking for when i log into an mmo)

 

OP bashes people who don't agree with him/her. Pretty pathetic, but par for the course.

 

The THIRD post to this thread is spot on. The game is F2P, let's get this game running on skill rather than time spent on gathering gear. I would rather log in and spend a few matches setting my keybinds, learning my class and jumping right into competitive games rather than grinding gear and crushing others who haven't spent that investment. WoW is for that. I enjoy WoW arenas too as I am a posting member of arena junkies and a mutli-glad on two classes.

 

For the OP, if you want to do the competitive-gear grind to "smash" less-geared players, come over to WoW. I'll even teach you how to play arena's comptitively if you'd like. Send me a tell and I'll give you my credentials and I'll even gear up with you this season on priest or mage to see if you can actually play competitively. So many pvp'ers are bad asses in their own mind...and it is only a video game to boot

 

Otherwise, let's embrace this change and hope that SWTOR PvP becomes a hit with other like-minded people. There is nothing at all wrong with leveling the playing field. The good players will rise and the less-interested people will become average. What's wrong with that? No more "Hulk-Smash" with better gear mentality?

 

To OP- if you are like 12 years old, I'm sorry for posting a semi-sarcastic post. You don't know any better. HULK-SMASH!

 

Edit: The next one or two MMOS HAVE come along, FYI. The pvp'ers still here probably enjoy the game enough to keep playing.

 

second edit: I was not serious about gearing up with you in WoW. Takes too much time, and i suspect you suck. However, I will provide credentials for you in the alternative.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Genttry
text

[Genttry]

yea and 1.5 million of those people left and never subscribed.

 

 

if they are going to cater to f2pers they need to put just as much effort for subsribers as well.... our own brackets... forcing people to at least get a freaking advanced class before they pvp

 

 

 

i can handle f2pers ruining my matches, but now the fact that i cant even help myself to overcome their blatant lack of skill, ability, awareness, and gear with my own gear just makes it all the more frustrating.

 

Hey Pearl...relax looololo. You can bring your "subscriber" badness to any match, not just the forums jousts.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Genttry

[Genttry]

To bad there's no bolster system in real life for reading, comprehension and logical thought, ay? LOL. Troll on, little man. Hahahahhahahahaha.

 

Oh lord, a post scathing on reading comprehension and logic comes from someone who calls itself "BoushhDC?" Oh my, says George Takei...

Edited April 8, 2013 by Genttry

[BoushhDC]

I will say 2 things in reply to this misguided line of thinking...

 

You're ignoring the context. The post to which I was replying was asking that with the new system, doesn't *everybody* win? I merely pointed out that crafters will take a hit. I'm not using it as an argument against the new system, but honestly answering someone's question. How is answering a question truthfully and thoughtfully misguided since it's something I don't think he thought of before?

Edited April 8, 2013 by BoushhDC