Individual Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) I brought this point up briefly in one of my PVP threads about Mercs, but I'm posting it here because I believe it deserves some special attention. Bioware, can you folks please tell us ranged classes who play Mercs / Commandos or Sorcs / Sages how Melee can leap at us from 30 meters and do an AOE stun, while we're stuck with a "single target" 10 meter stun? Was a leap AOE stun not the same or even better than a 30 meter single target stun? Better yet, picture this. Jugg leaps into group, smashes group, AOE stuns group, pushes 1 person out of group, and leaps to target out of group. Now, why was my single target 30 meter stun taken away? I have to sacrifice my safety to stun someone like a healer free casting in the back whereas a Mura or Jugg can stun someone and either leap, or stealth away. It's ironic that a melee class can essentially execute a ranged ability and get safe, while a ranged class is on the opposite side of it. Yes, I know we have another ranged CC, but it requires casting, and to many people can see it going off and can either interrupt, los, or can flat out be casted at wrong times I would like to use Huttball as an example. Lets say I'm a Sorc or a Sage. I see a ball carrier about ready to crass the fire, however, I have to time it perfectly before casting it to catch that person crossing the fire. A second late, and the ball carrier is already across, a second to early, and I've just managed to fill up the carriers resolve before he crosses a fire. To bad I can't use an instant CC. Lets look at this same example from leapers point of view. I see carrier about to crass fire from a distance. Carrier doesn't see me. Wait for fire to dull and leap. I jump in, get to root the carrier, wait for them use break away for a second, than AOE stun. If carrier doesn't use break away, I still AOE stun. In other words, I get 2 CC abilities that are essentially equal to being ranged. Root + AOE stun all of which was set up from 30 meters out. Pretty OP compared to my casting distance stun if you ask me. Why can't I have a 30 meter instant stun? It's only single target vs a leap, dmg, aoe stun, leap to safety or cammo to safety. Edited April 5, 2013 by Individual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 This is intended (not that it really works from a balance point of view) Here are the patch notes of 1.4 in which they changed every 30m instant stun to 10m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uvirith Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 The bad players (the majority of the ToR-Community) *****ed about it, so they changed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommot Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 The bad players (the majority of the ToR-Community) *****ed about it, so they changed it. This. People complained stuns were too frequent and easy to pull off. The only one they didnt change was Sniper because their stun is "integral to the way the class plays," or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) This. People complained stuns were too frequent and easy to pull off. The only one they didnt change was Sniper because their stun is "integral to the way the class plays," or something along those lines. Note that it's not a stun, but a mezz, and all other ranged classes kept their mezzes at 30m too. The only "real stun" a Sniper has is 4m range. So it's not that they didn't change theirs "because of the way the class plays", but because there was nothing to change. Edited April 5, 2013 by Altheran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacito Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Note that it's not a stun, but a mezz, and all other ranged classes kept their mezzes at 30m too. The only "real stun" a Sniper has is 4m range. So it's not that they didn't change theirs "because of the way the class plays", but because there was nothing to change. I've long since given up on the hope that people recognize the difference between a mezz and a stun. To most people, those terms are interchangeable. So yes, your stuns are mid-range, all other stuns are melee range. The only AoE stun is on powertechs/vanguards, and they usually won't charge you (because powertech tanks aren't exactly... popular in PvP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I've long since given up on the hope that people recognize the difference between a mezz and a stun. To most people, those terms are interchangeable. I have personally lost faith in something else... People in my country (France) and other speaking the same language, tend to use some english terms, maybe to look cool, or use shorter words, but they use the word "stun"... Or rather they try, because a good part of them (I'd say approximately 1 of 3) will say "stunt". Each time I have a an urge of /facepalm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhealThar Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The bad players (the majority of the ToR-Community) *****ed about it, so they changed it. No, they changed it because this game has way too much CC as it is. I'm glad you think you're better than the majority of the SWTOR community at pvp in this game. That's cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Individual Posted April 7, 2013 Author Share Posted April 7, 2013 No, they changed it because this game has way too much CC as it is. I'm glad you think you're better than the majority of the SWTOR community at pvp in this game. That's cute. So you're implying that ranged players are the ones that get the shaft? If what you say was true, why did the change the resolve system to allow us to be CC'd more times in a row now than before? In my opinion, Bioware really messed up doing this. If Bioware is intending for us to have a 10 m CC ability, it should last longer than it does as ranged classes often don't have abilities to get them out of harms way. The mentality of it is, I have run up to someone CC them then run to safety. How does that even make any sense? They shouldn't be thought of as a means of trying to escape only. You need them for other aspects of the game such as taking points, trying to kill healers, or sticking it to someone when they dare cross a fire pit without a CC breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 So you're implying that ranged players are the ones that get the shaft? If what you say was true, why did the change the resolve system to allow us to be CC'd more times in a row now than before? In my opinion, Bioware really messed up doing this. They probably wanted resolve to reflect the time being CC'ed, and not the number of recieved CC. If you think of it this way, you'll find their change perfecty normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majspuffen Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 No, they changed it because this game has way too much CC as it is. I'm glad you think you're better than the majority of the SWTOR community at pvp in this game. That's cute. The changes made to resolve in 1.4 sure helped with the CC ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 They probably wanted resolve to reflect the time being CC'ed, and not the number of recieved CC. If you think of it this way, you'll find their change perfecty normal. The problem is when resolve acts this way, uncoordinated groups can effectively lock down targets. Before the resolve changes, hard stuns from two different targets landing at the same time would generate full resolve for both stuns, even though the target was only locked down for the duration of a single stun. The prior system was better, because it rewarded teams who coordinated their cc effects, and punished those who threw them out with little thought or strategy. Halting the resolve decay to when cc effects end was the only good change they made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uvirith Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 No, they changed it because this game has way too much CC as it is. I'm glad you think you're better than the majority of the SWTOR community at pvp in this game. That's cute. Actually, I am and I´m not flattering myself here. In 15 years of mmo-pvp Ive never seen a community less capable of basic gameplay than in The old Republic. Oh, and compared to other mmo´s there is hardly any CC in this game. DaoC for example had 9second-stuns and 1 minute Mezzes. We managed to play it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 This is intended (not that it really works from a balance point of view) Here are the patch notes of 1.4 in which they changed every 30m instant stun to 10m 1.4, otherwise known as the second of two patches that broke pvp balance completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 No, they changed it because this game has way too much CC as it is. I'm glad you think you're better than the majority of the SWTOR community at pvp in this game. That's cute. That may have been the reasoning, but it had the opposite effect. Incidentally, 1.4 created more stunning and CC'ing than there previously was due to a) a change in how resolve was calculated b) bubble stun c) bubble stun applying less resolve than other stuns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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