Please Reconsider Removing Savage Kick, Tumult, ect. From the Game

[Liquid_Drano]

To clarify, please reconsider removing the PvE abilities that deal damage to incapacitated targets from the game. The animations are a lot of fun, and it's fantastic to use while leveling. Isn't that the point? To have fun? Don't remove them just because there are people out there who don't use their trained abilities to the fullest.

 

There are those of us who use them. Thank you.

[andyjd]

Agreed! That's like taking tomahawks out of CoD cause the newbies don't know how to use them lol

[GrayTap]

I can agree, it would suck to have Dirty Kick removed! it is part of my skill play for my smuggler...

 

I'm sure there are a lot of skills people just don't find use in and just face roll the default skill bar, but i like the option of stunning a mob and kicking it in the butt, nading it and killing it... when i set it up to do it...

 

spamming spray and pray skills is super and all but it's nice to have fighting options!

[Marb]

I think it was more in preparation to cut down ability bloat, with all classes gaining new abilities in 2.0. Looking at all the abilities objectively, they were the prime candidates to be cut.

[GrayTap]

so we can all face roll spray and pray, swing and smash without any uniqueness other then which skill we smash first...

 

ok, add an extra section to the character equipment screen with 3 slots to add personal skill datacrons, like if i want to keep Dirty Kick i put a skill datacron in a slot and i have that skill... or a new 360° spray and pray skill, the character spins shooting mobs in a 360° circle while slowly kneeling... something not 100% for that class, an extra little surprise that isn't common...

 

I just like my Dirty Kick!!!

[MajikMyst]

I am a shadow tank, so I will talk about Tumult..

 

First let me say, I don't know how useful it is for a dps spec shadow.. For a tank, it isn't that useful..

 

I use Tumult for DPS and dailies.. Ops it is pretty much useless because you can't stun anything.. Tanking a boss it is a completely useless skill..

 

In exchange for Tumult.. We are getting a new skill called phase walk.. I think that is the name of it.. Been awhile since I was on the PTR..

 

Phase walk does some pretty neat stuff.. Assuming they don't change it..

 

For those that don't know or haven't been on the PTR.. Phase walk, allows a shadow to put a marker on the ground, and as long as the shadow is within 60 meters of the marker, the shadow can instantly teleport back to the marker..

 

As a bonus, the marker has a second function.. It also give a 5% healing bonus to all healers that are within 5 meters of the marker on the ground.. The marker will remain on the ground for 2 minutes before it fades.. Don't remember what the CD was to recast it..

 

For me as a shadow tank, I think it is a fair trade.. For DPS, I don't know.. Would I like to have both skills?? Sure.. Who wouldn't.. But at least for me and my shadow tank.. I am pleased with what I am getting instead of Tumult.. That is my two cents..

[JamieKirby]

I never used them, since weak and normals tend to die real fast, now if it did alot of damage and stunned STRONG and ELITES and champions unless they have that 'Immune to stuns' type of thing, then i would use it, but its just like Freezing Force ability guardians get, i never use it, the moment i learn it, it gets removed from the action bar.

 

Overall, i never use the ability and alot of other people do not use the ability, so why have it in the game?

[GrayTap]

with the last 2 comments I can agree, as we level these skills do become useless due to the inability to stun elite mobs since most mobs can resist those equally useless stun skills...

 

think we get rid off all skills and weapons and use punch > j/k but it is a funny thought... In all honesty i think the elite/legendary mobs buff to resist immobility show be %percent based not 100%... just a high resistance chance!

[TinkRN]

I loved dirty kick leveling my smuggler! When I had people charge me, it was great to have a defensive / offensive response! A quick kick and head shot worked wonders. Of course, if it was a group, I used the skill that pushed them away. In ops, I'm usually staying ranged, so I don't use it as much.

 

An additional general comment to the reworking of skills: It seems like they are focusing on balancing pvp more than helping those of us who primarliy do pve. Please, Bioware, don't focus on PVP! This is a pve game of survival for most of us!

[DarkAngelDancer]

I say bring back a more powerful tumult then. As I think it's pretty boring seeing the same animations and no versatility at all in combat....unless you count AoE. But then again, I play a DPS Assassin and a lot of PVE....so tumult comes in really handy for intermediate players.

 

But now it's gone. So I say bring back a more powerful version that can stun elites...much like some of the Juggernaut stuns.

[JamieKirby]

I never used them, I even forgot they existed....they tended to get removed from my action bar the moment I learnt the skill.

[revansowns]

Wait Dirty Kick is gone??? Nooooo! My Smuggler is only lvl 18

 

Change it back Bioware right now!

[ConstableNobody]

I agree with the original poster, Sith Warrior has been my favorite class through my entire play because of its skillset. All of its moves are just so satisfying, among them Savage Kick. As a matter of fact, Savage Kick was one of my favorite skills, it added a flourish that wasn't just a variation of a saber attack. I'm not quite sure why it was removed, but I don't see a powerful reason in any direction. It can't be for pvp balance, because it wasn't usable on players; it can't be for pve balance, because it wasn't usable on mobs over "strong"; and if it's because of there being too many skills now, then that is simply not necessary. I, for one, would continue to use Savage Kick as long as it is in my skillset, regardless of what other moves I might have.

[Ricciri]

I SO loved jumping into a group of enemies, savage kicking the first, then turning around and force screaming and pommel striking the next. Wheeee! So it did not work on the really strong foes. I still had a lof of fun with those skills.

 

Now that those skills are gone, my Marauder feels pretty lame.

 

Please, please, bring those skills back! I shudder to think of playing my Smuggler without Dirty Kick

[Shanbob]

Even with my sage I found myself using tumult even at level 50. It was my way to get in the fight, it did some decent damage against strong opponents and never drained my force power. Saying that though, I did kind of wish they changed it from a spinny kick to a flashy lightsaber swing. Just make it do the same damage, cause as it is sages do not look like they are able to wield a lightsaber properly. lol Edited April 12, 2013 by Shanbob

[FuryoftheStars]

Quite frankly, what they should do, IMO, is combine certain skills, rather than removing.

 

IE: Trooper (in the shared skill tree between the advanced classes, I believe) has a high level skill that adds a sticky grenade. But... they already have a sticky grenade ability? Like wise, Jedi Knights... Sentinel?... has in one of its skill trees adding in a new form of Force Jump, one that can be used closer in.

 

The affects are different, but the weapon concepts are the same. So, instead of adding these in as "new" abilities, have them modify the existing one to include these new effects, so they become hybrids of each other.

[Hiniba]

I will mostly speak to Tumult for Sages and Opprotunity STrike (or whatever it's called) for Sentinels.

 

I rather liked Tumult. I worked well for helping clear trash (especially on my seer so I wasn't dps speced) I could run in project a rock then tumult to kill a single non-strong quickly.

 

On the other hand I hated opprotunity strike for sentinels (the equivalent). I never could find a good spot for it (since I'm DPS I don't have a seperate area for damage abilities...it's all damage abilities mostly) it has to be used quickly so it needs to be somewhere accessable (since the time to do it is usually small) but for pvp it's useless so it can't be taking up a good spot. (Plus there's also the attack that can only be used on snared targets to complicate things more).

They are great abilities when they work well but the problem I have with them is it's more toolbar clutter that's conditionally useable (so I have this high dps ability that I can't use on bosses or players but I should be using otherwise but even then can only be used when the enemy meets certain restrictions).

 

I understand why people miss them (I miss tumult, but I'm glad the sentinel ones are gone because I'm not pressured to use these really conditional abilities now; I'll take the good with the bad)

 

And some say "if you don't like them don't use them" but if we played everything the way we wanted to instead of the way we should we probably wouldn't have combat roles that are so min-maxed.

[Devilart]

First ring was screwing Overload animation. Now, Tumult is completely gone... Great, what's next? Changing Voltaic Slash animation on Thrash's? Or Assassinate on Maul's?

[Admiral-Flint]

It really does seem that I am simply not meant to play and enjoy SWTOR anymore.

 

-- introductory semi-ranty background (= feel free to skip): --

I played SWTOR for quite a while after its release and truly enjoyed it, including somewhat of a (dps) juggernaught focus. After a while though, roughly a few weeks after release of the "Explosive Conflict" operation, I quit and took a break.

Several months later I began to feel tempted to come back and play my warrior once again. After some time I gave in and resubscribed.

Unfortunately the first thing I did was queue up for one of the "new" FPs introduced shortly before my break. The group there gave me a "welcome back" experience that essentially came down to a "**** out of this group/instance and go farm daily quests for gear for about 2 months before you dare to come back, we don't want you around!".

In a way I listened to them: I left the group, logged out and didn't bother coming back to the game, until now, many months later.

Trying to resubscribe and purchase the expansion I encountered yet another ... shall we say 'interesting' welcome again: I noticed that EA/Bioware is essentially demanding me to pay in my country's currency, with a numerically higher price tag, despite my currency being valued higher than the US-dollar, making everything roughly 30% more expensive on the bottom line, compared to when calculating with the US-$ price. But oh well here I am nontheless.

 

-- end of semi-ranty introduction --

 

So now here I am logging on my Juggernaught for the first time since quite a while ago... just to notice two of my favorite abilities being entirely gone from the game.

 

Pommel strike, Savage Kick (as well as Tumult for my Sorcerer for that matter) were all extremely fun abilities.

Especially pommel strike had a truly "heavy" feeling to it, getting "up close and personal" with both a powerful animation and cool sound effects to go with it.

Each fight I was eager to use them not only because they were useful to somewhat quickly decimate weaker enemies but because it was simply cool to use and watch the character perform them. This even went so far that when playing with a friend of mine we coordinated the use of our stuns over voice comms so we would be able to apply those now removed abilities more often.

 

The desire to reduce the overall number of skills/hotkeys one has to keep ready for use is understandable, especially in the light of the addition of newone(s) with the expansion.

Maybe merging pommel strike and savage kick could have been an option since they essentially did the same, but instead they are all removed and the Juggernaught gets Saber Reflect as a new ability which is more than just 'close' to the already existing Saber Ward in function and, if I may speculate so boldly (since I admittedly haven't seen it in action myself yet), in all likelyhood way less spectacular/fun to use than the two removed ones.

 

As others have stated, the power of pommel strike, savage kick or tumult etc. was hardly game-changing, making their removal rather unlikely to be balance related.

That leaves the bottom line that BioWare has decided to eliminate a gameplay element that many people enjoyed and that (in my oppinion) wasn't affecting the game balance in any noteworthy way.

So my question would have to be: why remove existing, enjoyable aspects of the game?

 

All in all this was yet an other really unpleasant "welcome back" experience for me, not as bad as the last one and not enough to deter me from playing for a while this time, but still a remarkably negative one.

 

my slighly longer than planned 2 cents on the matter.

[Braxxiss]

I see a lot of people mentioning dirty kick on smuggler...this ability was not changed...it is still there. Don't freak out. The ability that was removed was SAVAGE Kick, a sith warrior move, that required the target to be stunned. I leveled a juggernaut and think I used savage kick a total of 2 times, and those were both by accident. I leveled an assassin, and think I used Tumult once, just to see how it was, and didn't like it. I don't mind loosing these abilities myself.

[Recon_Silencer]

Haven't played SWTOR in 2 months since I've moved from another state. Excited to get back into the Old Republic game. As my Sage, I ran up to a few NPCs on Voss, stunned the NPC and was ready to hit him with Tumult....just to find out surprisingly Tumult was taken out of the game recently! Not cool with this at all. I used Tumult all the time in Black Hole on Corellia. Also I am hearing they took the what I like to call, "kick shot to the nuts" from the smuggler which is a trade mark smuggler ability for SWTOR gamers! Please bring the ability back! Edited May 9, 2013 by Recon_Silencer

[DewyMossEmpire]

Yess I'd love to see more of these acrobatic & physical attacks come back! The kicking & flipping around & pommel strike moves made it much more exciting to play & watch. There's plenty of those types of moves in the movies & other games & videos & so forth. I was very sad to see them go. D:

[Recon_Silencer]

Another reason why I don't understand why it was removed. As a Sage, I (personally) didn't see a way I could use Tumult in PVP. If I could have, shame on me hahaha. Point is: It was an ability purely used for NPC combat fun by experienced SWTOR players. So I do not see the reasoning behind removing such a cool attack from the SAGES and Smugglers.

[Truffula]

And they posted long explanations of how each class changed and entirely LEFT OUT these changes, and the reason for them.

 

Could they really have removed them because some people didn't use them? It seems like there has to be a bigger reason than that, and they know people mind things being removed... I kept hoping there'd be an explanation.