SturmUndSterne Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 By this wording, one can report every single person in the game for causing another player grief for ANYTHING. You can't spell! You've just ruined my enjoyment! You rolled NEED! You've just ruined my enjoyment! You named your character MYLITTLESITHY! You've just ruined my enjoyment! Your costume is an eyesore! You've ruined my enjoyment! So easy to upset players for anything. That's true. However, griefing is a little different than things that are easily avoidable. You can not group with ugly chars or ninjas. You can /ignore people who spam chat. You can't easily avoid someone following you around and healing your mobs if they're not PVP flagged. Furthermore, there's a devpost or community post about how this is griefing from sometime in April or May of last year, I just don't want to look for it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen_Starsolo Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 While I agree with the: "So what? Then kill them and quit crying!!" attitude. That only applies when it's on a PvP server since that's what you rolled there for. BUT On a PvE server? No. It can be considered greifing and I hate players that do this on PvE servers. If they want that stuff they can come to a PvP server with me and deal with the reprocussions. I feel for ya OP I've done what the OP described once and it was on a server now known as Pot5. Two guys ganked me on Aldaraan. So I stealth followed behind them and when they were attacking some NPC's of my faction, I healed the NPCs and returned the favor. My time on Shadowlands, I never had the urge to do it though. So yeah, I agree with this post. Depends on the server type whether I'd call it good form or bad form. Not sure if I would use the word griefing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 By this wording, one can report every single person in the game for causing another player grief for ANYTHING. You can't spell! You've just ruined my enjoyment! You rolled NEED! You've just ruined my enjoyment! You named your character MYLITTLESITHY! You've just ruined my enjoyment! Your costume is an eyesore! You've ruined my enjoyment! So easy to upset players for anything. Your straw man argument is weak. Reporting does not equal action being taken against anyone. They just don't act based on reports. Those rules are in place for instances exactly like this thread is describing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Well seeing as this happened on a PvE server... Makes sense right? What does make sense? You lost me there. Are Empire an Rebublic not supposed to be mortal enemies, regardless of the server type? Are mortal enemies not supposed to make each others live difficult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen_Starsolo Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 What does make sense? You lost me there. Are Empire an Rebublic not supposed to be mortal enemies, regardless of the server type? Are mortal enemies not supposed to make each others live difficult? Not in this game. Opposing factions play sporting events together, same factions kill each other on a ice planet just trying to charge a pylon, and many more things. Don't let logic creep into a game with so much illogical story plotholes in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysiah Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/ I refer you to Section 11 of the Terms of Service, and I quote: "You may violate the Terms of Service if, as determined by EA in its sole discretion, you:" (redacted) "- Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing an EA Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide an EA Service for the enjoyment of all its users. " and (another redaction) "- “Role–playing” is not an excuse for violating this or any other policy. " Pure and simple, and a by-letter violation of the ToS. Report and move on. That makes it pretty clear, thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen_Starsolo Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) By this wording, one can report every single person in the game for causing another player grief for ANYTHING. You can't spell! You've just ruined my enjoyment! You rolled NEED! You've just ruined my enjoyment! You named your character MYLITTLESITHY! You've just ruined my enjoyment! Your costume is an eyesore! You've ruined my enjoyment! So easy to upset players for anything. That's a little over the top but I get your point. That wording can be applied to all the PvP in this game and every other EA game with PvP. Heck, it can even be applied to the Sims. Someone uploads an outfit that is broken to the exchange. Ruins everyone's enjoyment. lol Edited March 28, 2013 by Jacen_Starsolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 "You may violate the Terms of Service if, as determined by EA in its sole discretion, you:" (redacted) "- Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing an EA Service[...]. " Pure and simple, and a by-letter violation of the ToS. Report and move on. By-letter? Err, no... Enjoyment is entirely subjective. In the end, it is, as stated, the call of EA to discern what is ok and what is deemed to be vialation. (Which makes the ToS likely to be legally invalid, but I guess nobody going to sue EA if they get banned for this anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen_Starsolo Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) By-letter? Err, no... Enjoyment is entirely subjective. In the end, it is, as stated, the call of EA to discern what is ok and what is deemed to be vialation. (Which makes the ToS likely to be legally invalid, but I guess nobody going to sue EA if they get banned for this anyway) Actually, EA ruined people's enjoyment of the latest SimCity with all the problems they had. Therefore, by the wording, EA broke their own TOS. And I just read the Say NO to Oceanic thread. They say before those servers were added, the players had bad lag and couldn't enjoy the game. So the proposed server merges by Bioware fits the EA definition and breaking the EA TOS. Edited March 28, 2013 by Jacen_Starsolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfa Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) I've done this myself a few ties, but usually it was when they were attacking base turrets and mobs. Either way, I don't see it as a grief, but I do agree that it should flag you for continued action just to prevent griefing. Then again, if it flags the griefing player, it means the griefed player will attack, flagging them, and then they end up having to face off against the newly flagged griefer and the mob. I'd just find a new mob if I were you. Edited March 28, 2013 by Elfa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lung_Tien_Lien Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 The sad part of all of this, is that those who call this griefing, find everything to be griefing. Player on the team rolled NEED for something their class can't use, they're griefing! Nevermind they probably roll NEED any any item that their class can use, even if they don't NEED it. Nothing in the rules says "Don't heal your fractions NPCs" so it's not griefing. If you don't like it, move on, alt characters, change instances, call in some friends to out DPS those heals. The problem is that there is no "official" definition for what exactly griefing is. To you, this isn't griefing. I see everything that is done for the sole purpose of annoying other players as griefing. Rolling need on everything will either get the person kicked or will make me leave the group, but I wouldn't call it griefing per se as it's most likely done so they can have the item - annoying the rest of the group is a side effect. Now before someone else comes in and talks about "healing your allies" and how this makes sense from a roleplaying perspective - please read through the thread and you'll see plenty of people say this is hilarious. Why would it be funny if you're defending your "allies" from the enemy? Especially since if they're really roleplaying, they'd flag themselves for PVP as the logical consequence of their healing would be getting attacked themselves. Unless they're roleplaying as some sort of invincible healing god. Yes, I'm sure that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfa Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) The problem is that there is no "official" definition for what exactly griefing is. To you, this isn't griefing. I see everything that is done for the sole purpose of annoying other players as griefing. Rolling need on everything will either get the person kicked or will make me leave the group, but I wouldn't call it griefing per se as it's most likely done so they can have the item - annoying the rest of the group is a side effect. Now before someone else comes in and talks about "healing your allies" and how this makes sense from a roleplaying perspective - please read through the thread and you'll see plenty of people say this is hilarious. Why would it be funny if you're defending your "allies" from the enemy? Especially since if they're really roleplaying, they'd flag themselves for PVP as the logical consequence of their healing would be getting attacked themselves. Unless they're roleplaying as some sort of invincible healing god. Yes, I'm sure that's it. Well, one can only assume that a grief action is indeed a grief action sometimes. I mean just because you feel griefed, doesn't mean you have actually been griefed. For instance, one can feel griefed if one is sought out and attacked repeatedly in PVP, but is it actually griefing or just tactics? These are somewhat of a philosophical question. I mean the OP may feel like he was griefed, but the person healing the mobs may have been RPing and felt it was his character's duty to defend his faction's troops and even if not, it's a viable defense when accused of griefing. Edited March 28, 2013 by Elfa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricSevGirl Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 It was two different mobs, it's not funny and those who think it is are immature. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfa Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) It was two different mobs, it's not funny and those who think it is are immature. Period. I'm not saying it's funny at all, I'm just saying that defense of one's faction can be a legitimate defense against an accusation of griefing where this is concerned. Since the accused griefer here can't harass you in chat about it, his or her name remains in the clear and can simply claim that it was defense of faction. The intent on the other party's part to intentionally grief must be proven and rarely can be in this case. I wouldn't expect that any accusations of griefing will get anywhere Op, just be happy it's as rare as it is. Edited March 28, 2013 by Elfa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lung_Tien_Lien Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Well, one can only assume that a grief action is indeed a grief action sometimes. I mean just because you feel griefed, doesn't mean you have actually been griefed. For instance, one can feel griefed if one is sought out and attacked repeatedly in PVP, but is it actually griefing or just tactics? These are somewhat of a philosophical question. I mean the OP may feel like he was griefed, but the person healing the mobs may have been RPing and felt it was his character's duty to defend his faction's troops and even if not, it's a viable defense when accused of griefing. Yes, hence why I said if they're actually roleplaying they'd flag themselves for PVP. Because there's no way to roleplay "I heal my allies who are attacking an enemy, but can't be attacked myself because... uh?" See? Intention isn't always clear, I agree, but in this case I think it's fairly obvious people merely find it funny. (Which they're free to do, just as I am free to see this as griefing.) As for PVP - if it's a warzone or a PVP server, no, I don't think it's griefing. If it's on a PVE server and people use questionable methods to get the other player flagged - yes, it is. That's how I see it, at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Would you rather I use harassment? griefing A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game that purposely irritates and harasses other players.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefing If it's on Wiki, then it MUST be true right? If I see you in a contested or open pvp area, killing my faction npc's... I will definitely heal them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lung_Tien_Lien Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 If it's on Wiki, then it MUST be true right? If I see you in a contested or open pvp area, killing my faction npc's... I will definitely heal them. You're going to have a hard time finding an official definition of what is and isn't griefing. Also, you're automatically flagged for PVP in those areas, correct? The OP is talking about someone who isn't flagged for PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 If it's on Wiki, then it MUST be true right? If I see you in a contested or open pvp area, killing my faction npc's... I will definitely heal them. What makes it griefing is that you are actively disturbing or interrupting the game of another player via PVE mechanics. PVP is an entirely different story, but if someone comes along and kills 5000 NPCs, that has zero effect on your game. You trying to keep them from finishing a quest does hinder their ability to progress through the game. That is where it breaks the rules. All of these excuses of "It's my faction!" and "It is part of my roleplay" is meaningless and /or just attempts to justify the griefing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen_Starsolo Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 It's not griefing if it's lighthearted. Next time, the perp should stand over the dead player and say, "Sith happens. lol :)" then the smiley shows lighthearted so no ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 What makes it griefing is that you are actively disturbing or interrupting the game of another player via PVE mechanics. PVP is an entirely different story, but if someone comes along and kills 5000 NPCs, that has zero effect on your game. You trying to keep them from finishing a quest does hinder their ability to progress through the game. That is where it breaks the rules. All of these excuses of "It's my faction!" and "It is part of my roleplay" is meaningless and /or just attempts to justify the griefing. Until the devs come out and say that this is an action that will result in a ban, I and others will continue to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielearley Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 As a loyal Republic Citizen I consider it my duty to defend the people of the republic. If I am unable to physically defend the population I will do my very best to keep them alive in any way possible. Narshadar and Voss are neutral zones where it is not ok for sith scum to kill republic citizenship without the good people of the republic defending said people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lung_Tien_Lien Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 As a loyal Republic Citizen I consider it my duty to defend the people of the republic. If I am unable to physically defend the population I will do my very best to keep them alive in any way possible. Narshadar and Voss are neutral zones where it is not ok for sith scum to kill republic citizenship without the good people of the republic defending said people. Indeed. How come the Sith scum can't attack the loyal Republic defenders, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen_Starsolo Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 As a loyal Republic Citizen I consider it my duty to defend the people of the republic. If I am unable to physically defend the population I will do my very best to keep them alive in any way possible. Narshadar and Voss are neutral zones where it is not ok for sith scum to kill republic citizenship without the good people of the republic defending said people. As an agent of the Empire I consider it my duty to defend the ideals of the Empire. If that includes adding up the body count of the Republic dogs, so be it. Nar Shadaa and Voss are neutral zones where it is not ok for Republic dogs to try to force their Republic lies without the Sith destroying said lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 It was two different mobs, it's not funny and those who think it is are immature. Period. See, I think it is funny AND immature that somebody is so upset about not having been able to kill two mobs in a MMO because of actions of the *enemy * player that he/she goes to the forum, makes a post and calls other people "jerks" and "immature". Definitions are subjective, I guess. Period, no, Exclamation Mark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamanous Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) This is a role playing game. If you choose to be immersed into it you support your faction be it npc and player. Also ... I healed mobs with my Operative just in case someone heads to the forums to whine like this person did Edited March 28, 2013 by Tamanous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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