Your 2.0 build

[Hizoka]

What you planing on??

 

 

As a prettly much pure PvE raider i am thinking

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/233/?build=002303020212221202300230012000100320320000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

 

just not sure about force fade.. if that is better then the buff to saber ward... i know i almost NEVER use saber ward.. but i have used cammo just for the movment speed when leap is on CD and i need to get somewhere quick.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Hizoka

[Ryat]

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/233/?build=002303020212221200300230012200100320300000000000000000000000000002000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

This is mine. I went with Zealous Ward as I often find it useful to pop Saber Ward in Solo times or even during raids for all those AoE attacks. Still debating whether or not I should max out Insight or keep full Dual Wield Mastery.

[Aaramis]

Tried out all 3 specs on PTS, and really enjoy Watchman (I always have), but was pleasantly surprised with Focus as well.

So I'll be waffling between the 2 I'm sure.

Specs are going to be similar for almost everyone. The only differences will be those last 2 to 5 points. As before, there will be debates between Defensive Roll, Insight, etc. and which is best. To each their own, really.

I will say, though, that Insight is worth a lot more now with the stat rating nerfs, making talented crit / acc / surge much more valuable.

[Ryat]

I will say, though, that Insight is worth a lot more now with the stat rating nerfs, making talented crit / acc / surge much more valuable.

That's a very good point. May take that into consideration.

[Hizoka]

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/233/?build=002303020212221200300230012200100320300000000000000000000000000002000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

This is mine. I went with Zealous Ward as I often find it useful to pop Saber Ward in Solo times or even during raids for all those AoE attacks. Still debating whether or not I should max out Insight or keep full Dual Wield Mastery.

 

insight is garbage for watchman honestly... the only thing it effects is your dots... and with talents in watchman your dots get +18%. the points are much better in DW mastery as far as DPS output.

[Hizoka]

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/233/?build=002303020212221200300230012200100320300000000000000000000000000002000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

This is mine. I went with Zealous Ward as I often find it useful to pop Saber Ward in Solo times or even during raids for all those AoE attacks. Still debating whether or not I should max out Insight or keep full Dual Wield Mastery.

 

not having defensive roll puts you as a burden to you raid IMO... everyone takes AoE damage and reducing that by 30% just means your healers have to spend less time healing you. the damage you get from insight is nothing compared to what you gain by not dieing to AoE.

 

IMO a good raider does everything they can do to do the most damage while taking the least damage which IMO means defensive roll is 100% required.

[SalBasss]

not having defensive roll puts you as a burden to you raid IMO... everyone takes AoE damage and reducing that by 30% just means your healers have to spend less time healing you. the damage you get from insight is nothing compared to what you gain by not dieing to AoE.

 

IMO a good raider does everything they can do to do the most damage while taking the least damage which IMO means defensive roll is 100% required.

 

This. Our current progression setup has two Sentinels, one of which has defensive roll (me) and the other does not. In TFB there's not much of a difference, but he requires a lot more healing in NiM EC as there is a lot more aoe damage going out.

[Ryat]

not having defensive roll puts you as a burden to you raid IMO... everyone takes AoE damage and reducing that by 30% just means your healers have to spend less time healing you. the damage you get from insight is nothing compared to what you gain by not dieing to AoE.

 

IMO a good raider does everything they can do to do the most damage while taking the least damage which IMO means defensive roll is 100% required.

Will consider it.

[Aaramis]

not having defensive roll puts you as a burden to you raid IMO... everyone takes AoE damage and reducing that by 30% just means your healers have to spend less time healing you. the damage you get from insight is nothing compared to what you gain by not dieing to AoE.

 

IMO a good raider does everything they can do to do the most damage while taking the least damage which IMO means defensive roll is 100% required.

 

In a *raid*, yes, agreed. Well, for the most part. As you pointed, for some stuff it doesn't matter. The healers may AoE heal bomb anyways, or the AoEs may simply be avoidable, but in some situations yes, that 30% reduction is very, very valuable.

For me at least, it comes down to what I'm planning on doing. For soloing, or flashpoints, or even SM ops, it's not *necessary*, and other abilities may be tempting. But for NiM ops, or even HM ops, I'd be inclined to take Defensive Roll, yeah.

 

Not sure what the Ryat planned to do in PvE, which is why I mentioned it might be an option, or other choices such as Insight.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Aaramis

[Ryat]

Not sure what the Ryat planned to do in PvE, which is why I mentioned it might be an option, or other choices such as Insight.

A variety of things. Think I might get Field Respec with your thoughts in mind. I don't always see a need for Defensive Roll but as you pointed it, sometimes its useful.

[Hizoka]

In a *raid*, yes, agreed. Well, for the most part. As you pointed, for some stuff it doesn't matter. The healers may AoE heal bomb anyways, or the AoEs may simply be avoidable, but in some situations yes, that 30% reduction is very, very valuable.

For me at least, it comes down to what I'm planning on doing. For soloing, or flashpoints, or even SM ops, it's not *necessary*, and other abilities may be tempting. But for NiM ops, or even HM ops, I'd be inclined to take Defensive Roll, yeah.

 

Not sure what the Ryat planned to do in PvE, which is why I mentioned it might be an option, or other choices such as Insight.

insight is just nearly worthless as a DPS talent though... it ONLY effects dots for watchman and the tree already gives +18% to dot crit chance. so even if you are running 30% raid buffed (with the new crit coeffecients) that makes your dots have a 48% chance to crit.. the DPS increase will be less then 1% for 2 talent points its just not effective use of the talent budget.

[gunte]

insight is just nearly worthless as a DPS talent though... it ONLY effects dots for watchman and the tree already gives +18% to dot crit chance. so even if you are running 30% raid buffed (with the new crit coeffecients) that makes your dots have a 48% chance to crit.. the DPS increase will be less then 1% for 2 talent points its just not effective use of the talent budget.

 

Stop feeding this misinformation please, once again: 6% crit chance is EQUALLY valuable at a base of 0% crit chance, 10 %, 40%, 67 %, 94%, or ANY other. (below 94). So getting 18% crit chance from the tree is COMPLETELY irrelevant to insights value, OK?!?

[Hizoka]

Stop feeding this misinformation please, once again: 6% crit chance is EQUALLY valuable at a base of 0% crit chance, 10 %, 40%, 67 %, 94%, or ANY other. (below 94). So getting 18% crit chance from the tree is COMPLETELY irrelevant to insights value, OK?!?

 

no its not... 6% crit when you have no crit is a far better increase then when you have 45%... anyone with a solid idea of math knows that. the more crit you have the less of a DPS increase it becomes.

 

Crit is a terminating stat. the more you have the more you need to get and equal DPS increase. I would explain it in more detail you are have already proven to not be able to understand it.

[gunte]

no its not... 6% crit when you have no crit is a far better increase then when you have 45%... anyone with a solid idea of math knows that. the more crit you have the less of a DPS increase it becomes.

 

Crit is a terminating stat. the more you have the more you need to get and equal DPS increase. I would explain it in more detail you are have already proven to not be able to understand it.

 

No the DPS increase is equal regardless of base. The percentage increase is of course not as the increase is equal but the base changes.

For example if i start at 0 and just add 1, the increase by going from 1 to 2 is the same as going from 3 to 4 but the percentage increase is of course much higher going from 1 to 2.

[Sprgmr]

Here's what I'm thinking. I figure since I have the extra points then a small increase to Force Fade would be nice. But I also reason that IF I'm using Saber Ward, a little bonus healing can only help. Unfortunately I can't reasonably get Swift Slash, but putting Swift Slash in the first tier of combat could end up helping us, since we won't have to gear for that 3% accuracy, which we can then put towards more damage.

 

The slight loss in Damage from Dual Wield Mastery has been mathed out to be about 0.5% of damage per attack I think (Someone correct/confirm this?). But I'm psyched for how much free critical % we'll have (granted it's only 3% more).

[slowantics]

im thinking of going for this

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/233/?build=002200000000000000000000000000000320320021201220012220300320010003200001000000000000000000000000&ver=20

swift slash talent might be nice but not sure if i should sack a point from focused sash

im just thinking that crit chance would be nice since itll become part of regular rotation. the points in focus seem like a waste. not sure where to put them really

[Ilayas]

Here's what I'm thinking. I figure since I have the extra points then a small increase to Force Fade would be nice. But I also reason that IF I'm using Saber Ward, a little bonus healing can only help. Unfortunately I can't reasonably get Swift Slash, but putting Swift Slash in the first tier of combat could end up helping us, since we won't have to gear for that 3% accuracy, which we can then put towards more damage.

 

The slight loss in Damage from Dual Wield Mastery has been mathed out to be about 0.5% of damage per attack I think (Someone correct/confirm this?). But I'm psyched for how much free critical % we'll have (granted it's only 3% more).

 

I was not considering picking up Force Fade but your post got me thinking. Now that I look at it I feel the healing generated from talented saber ward is some what negligible. Were as a talented force camo can be used as a sprint, something very useful to me as a mele, and has a much shorter cool-down then saber ward so can be used more often. Before the force fade nerf back in the day I put that speed boost to good use. I think I'll look forward to doing so again.

 

Here's the build I am thinking of using:

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/233/?build=002303020212221202300230012000100320320000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Though I am loathed to give up swift slash I think my healers will thank me for finally picking up defensive roll.

[oofalong]

I believe 36/7/3 will be the best build for Watchman. You will still have the choice between Force Fade & Watchguard.

 

As other have pointed out the changes to the critical rating and primary stat equations means it is comparatively harder to get crit chance in 2.0. Thus, Insight's fixed crit % is very valuable.

 

I feel the benefits of crit are often misunderstood for Watchman Sentinel. Searing Saber provides a free 30% Surge for burns, which means we want burns crit'ing as often as possible. Don't forget about the health regen from crits as well; this is how we justify not investing in Defensive Roll. Plus, you will want to keep Saber Ward up now. Instead of mitigating damage we heal ourselves.

 

Assuming the talent trees from PTS are correct, the base crit % without counting Strength or Crit Rating would be:

 

• 5% Base
  
• 1% Companion
  
• 5% Imperial Agent/Smuggler
  
• 6% Insight
  
• 18% 6 Stacks of Juyo Form
  

 

For a total of 35%; plus Strength should add another ~11%. Thus we will be sitting at 46% for burns with 0 crit rating. I think the debate then becomes how much, if any, crit rating we want.

 

Regarding Dual Wield Mastery I did the math on it, and I concluded it offers marginal improvement - see the link in my signature line. I welcome other's perspectives on this though.

[oofalong]

no its not... 6% crit when you have no crit is a far better increase then when you have 45%... anyone with a solid idea of math knows that. the more crit you have the less of a DPS increase it becomes.

 

Crit is a terminating stat. the more you have the more you need to get and equal DPS increase. I would explain it in more detail you are have already proven to not be able to understand it.

 

Hizoka - can you clarify what you mean by a terminating stat?

 

By my calculations it seems that theoretically every incremental 1% in crit yields the same magnitude of extra damage. See this spreadsheet, where I modeled the standard damage from a Cauterize tick including the Searing Saber boost.

 

To be clear crit rating and strength's contributions to crit % are exponential, which means they suffer from diminishing marginal returns. But this does not seem to be the point you are trying to make.

 

Edit: the link should work now - sorry.

Edited April 6, 2013 by oofalong

[Bugattiboy]

Access to your spreadsheet is restricted in some way. I got "Access Denied".

[bbare]

Will consider it.

 

Don't take it. You are a dps, not a tank. You should be maximizing your dps. Healers can keep you up fine without defensive roll. Just about every other dps doesn't have a defensive roll and they are fine without it. Taking defensive roll as annihilation reduces your dps. It is dumb to take it.

[thizeh]

Is Focus viable in 2.0 PvE? If so, could someone post a build please?

[skomerko]

i believe 36/7/3 will be the best build for watchman. You will still have the choice between force fade & watchguard.

 

As other have pointed out the changes to the critical rating and primary stat equations means it is comparatively harder to get crit chance in 2.0. Thus, insight's fixed crit % is very valuable.

 

I feel the benefits of crit are often misunderstood for watchman sentinel. Searing saber provides a free 30% surge for burns, which means we want burns crit'ing as often as possible. Don't forget about the health regen from crits as well; this is how we justify not investing in defensive roll. Plus, you will want to keep saber ward up now. Instead of mitigating damage we heal ourselves.

 

Assuming the talent trees from pts are correct, the base crit % without counting strength or crit rating would be:

 

• 5% base
  
• 1% companion
  
• 5% imperial agent/smuggler
  
• 6% insight
  
• 18% 6 stacks of juyo form
  

 

for a total of 35%; plus strength should add another ~11%. Thus we will be sitting at 46% for burns with 0 crit rating. I think the debate then becomes how much, if any, crit rating we want.

 

Regarding dual wield mastery i did the math on it, and i concluded it offers marginal improvement - see the link in my signature line. I welcome other's perspectives on this though.

 

I created similar build, but i spent 2 points from Zealous Ward on Watchguard and Force Fade.

I don't know know if cd on Saber Ward changed in 2.0 but now it's 180 seconds. Assuming boss fight last 6 minutes i use it only 2 times. I think this 1/2% wil not make big diffrence for healer. (last 12 secs, so 8 ticks)But on the other hand... many bosses cannot be interupted ... so i might consider spending one point on saber ward. I need more testing to make final decision

 

36/7/3

Edited April 7, 2013 by skomerko

[Sprgmr]

For my experience, the CD decrease on Watchguard is invaluable to me and the Ops group. Granted the uses on Bosses are few, it is very welcome when full use of it is made.

 

But I totally see the usefulness of Zealous Ward. If here is intense group damage (like frenzy in Z&T) or have soem nasty DOT on you, Zealous Ward can pretty much negates the damage. While not necessary, it's some pressure of the healers in those situations.

 

If you really wanted to, you could even respec between those few skills for each boss.

[DrAlexander]

Is Focus viable in 2.0 PvE? If so, could someone post a build please?

I'd like to see a good build for Focus too. I got used to it before 2.0 and I'd like to use a bit more. Thanks.