Help me Aubere you are my only hope

[Crawelc]

Just watched this 3 times in a row:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzQBB4YICwM

How does that show the weakness of ataru form that made obi-wan give it up. I know everyone says that the reason he stopped with ataru form was because he saw the weaknesses of it when Qui died vs Maul. I just dont see that as an ataru form weakness. Once they got past the shields and were in such close quarters if he were true to ataru form he should have been moving alot more.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Its not that Ataru isn't effective in close quarters, your just not able to use the full extent of it and thus that is the downfall in using it. Not only that, Qui-Gon was well passed his prime compared to Obi-Wan, while Maul was younger had the advantage of strength and knew the weakness. Edited March 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Crawelc]

I just dont see(other than jumping over a low slash) what shows that he was even using ataru at all. Not to mention the fact that an older jedi using an "acrobatic" form is kind of lulzy.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I just dont see(other than jumping over a low slash) what shows that he was even using ataru at all. Not to mention the fact that an older jedi using an "acrobatic" form is kind of lulzy.

 

/shrug, its sci-fi fantasy whadda ya gonna do?

 

But at that point, I don't even think Obi-Wan was using full on Ataru, at least in the way a normal Jedi would he was raging pretty hard. He tapped into his rage remember, at seeing Qui-Gon die right infront of him thus causing him to slice Maul's saber in half which this caused Maul to be caught off guard because of the sudden and vicious attack from him. Plus Obi-Wan also used Ataru in a different manner, using the more impractical aspects.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

One of the other main reasons that Kenobi moved to Soresu is the lack of defensive capability and the ease at which an Ataru user can tire him or herself.

[Aurbere]

One of the other main reasons that Kenobi moved to Soresu is the lack of defensive capability and the ease at which an Ataru user can tire him or herself.

 

^This

 

Ataru is a form that lacks in the defensive department, and the acrobatic movements of the form tend to tire out its user eventually. Qui-Gon's age was a major factor in the battle as well.

[Beniboybling]

I think it was more that Ataru was simply too tiring, Qui-Gon was an absolute master of Ataru and managed to hold his own against Maul for a very long time, but eventually he tired and Maul defeated him.

 

I seem to remember reading that after Maul fought Qui-Gon on Tatooine he knew this was how he would defeat him.

[Aurbere]

I think it was more that Ataru was simply too tiring, Qui-Gon was an absolute master of Ataru and managed to hold his own against Maul for a very long time, but eventually he tired and Maul defeated him.

 

I seem to remember reading that after Maul fought Qui-Gon on Tatooine he knew this was how he would defeat him.

 

Actually Yoda is the absolute master of Ataru. Qui-Gon comes in second in that regard.

 

Ataru is a form that has detrimental effects on aging Jedi (luckily Yoda uses Force Valor to compensate). But also look at who Qui-Gon was fighting. Darth Maul was a ferocious duelist. It could be considered surprising that Qui-Gon lasted for so long despite the weaknesses of his form. Qui-Gon did very well against such an agressive opponent.

 

Now one could ask: Why didn't Qui-Gon use a different form on Naboo? The answer is simple. Qui-Gon devoted much of his martial skill into Ataru. The only other form that he had learned was Shii-Cho (as all younglings learn it). So here's a question: Would you use the form that you had mastered, or a form that you studied as a youngling?

 

And yes, Beni, the duel on Tatooine taught Maul how to kill Qui-Gon Jinn, while Qui-Gon had no idea what Maul could do.

[Beniboybling]

Actually Yoda is the absolute master of Ataru. Qui-Gon comes in second in that regard.

 

Ataru is a form that has detrimental effects on aging Jedi (luckily Yoda uses Force Valor to compensate). But also look at who Qui-Gon was fighting. Darth Maul was a ferocious duelist. It could be considered surprising that Qui-Gon lasted for so long despite the weaknesses of his form. Qui-Gon did very well against such an agressive opponent.

 

Now one could ask: Why didn't Qui-Gon use a different form on Naboo? The answer is simple. Qui-Gon devoted much of his martial skill into Ataru. The only other form that he had learned was Shii-Cho (as all younglings learn it). So here's a question: Would you use the form that you had mastered, or a form that you studied as a youngling?

 

And yes, Beni, the duel on Tatooine taught Maul how to kill Qui-Gon Jinn, while Qui-Gon had no idea what Maul could do.

A master, not the.

 

But I think, to put it simply, Qui-Gon was outmatched. Ataru is an aggresive form and yet he failed to penetrate Maul's defenses. Eventually Ataru tired him out and it was a done deal. If he had simply been better at Ataru he would have won. However one thing it shows, unless you have complete mastery over Ataru, you should study another more defensive and less exertive form along side it. I expect Qui-Gon simply didn't realise this until pitted into a real lightsaber duel with a dangerous opponent.

[Crawelc]

Thanks for all the replies guys, some food for thought.

[Ventessel]

^This

 

Ataru is a form that lacks in the defensive department, and the acrobatic movements of the form tend to tire out its user eventually. Qui-Gon's age was a major factor in the battle as well.

 

I don't think his age was ever a factor. Any Jedi, even one in his "prime" will be tired out using Ataru. It's awful for extended duels. And Dooku is old enough to have trained Qui-Gon, yet he keeps up just fine when he's fighting.

 

Also, many older Jedi (Mace Windu) are healthy and fit. Jedi seem to age a little more slowly, and this is rarely shown to affect their combat skills too adversely. In real life, I know many Chiefs who are well into their forties, even pushing fifty, who are arguably in better shape than most twenty-somethings.