Allow SGR to be turned off

[SithKoriandr]

A lot of people don't want blacks in their neighbourhood either.

 

Blame property value evaluators on that one. *sigh* I was shocked to learn that little tidbit.

[Kahotep]

Other things that exist in the animal kingdom...pedo, killing for sex, killing just for fun (it's not just a mankind thing like the popular quote says), the four letter word that starts with R.

 

Not that I condone or am comparing SGR to either of those, buuuuut, the whole "it exists in the animal kingdom" is total failure.

 

It is awful that people think it is fine to do this. You claim that you are not linking homosexuality with pedophilia while mentioning them both in the same breath. The subliminal link is thus made. Shame on you.

 

On a another note, the thing that irks me most these days is the cultivated moral outrage that some people seem to think gives them the right to censor what others can and cannot do. The poster I quote posted something I find wrong, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to do that. I think it was a terrible thing to write, I tell him that and I tell him why. That's how civilised discussion works.

 

The thing is anyone and everyone has the right to think whatever they like, but that does not give you the right to do whatever you like. Above all, you do not have a right to not be offended. If something offends you, say so or shut up and move on, but you can't go around saying that "you can't do that because I find it offensive". So what? Unless it actually harmed you in some way, so what?

 

Some people may find SGRAs offensive. I really don't care. Everyday I encounter things with delight me, amuse me, confuse me, bore me and sometimes offend me. So flipping what?

[Jayque]

If a larger percentage of people were honest it would likely be found the true request for SGR has nothing to do with equal rights ... the reality is that it has to do with a bunch of guys playing female characters who feel uncomfortable about flirting with their male companions. Ironically enough, this means those hanging on tightly to the battle cry of homophobia for anyone that does not want SGR in the game are possibly displaying a form of homophobia themselves.

[Uvirith]

We in the West, where this game is hosted and mainly played, adhere to a modern value: everyone is entitled to be treated equally without discrimination based on such factors as sex, race, religion and (dare I say it) sexual orientation. This right trumps religious (since that’s what you’re really talking about) beliefs in all Western democracies.

I hope your not talking about Amerika, cause they are known to be really really prude and religious compared to the "old world". As a european myself i always shake my head on how upset the americans can get when they see a centerpartoffemalechests in tv between slaughteredcorpse number 123 and 124.

 

/edit

See, your prude enough to even censor n.i.p.p.l.e. in your forums

Edited March 13, 2013 by Uvirith

[Kahotep]

If a larger percentage of people were honest it would likely be found the true request for SGR has nothing to do with equal rights ... the reality is that it has to do with a bunch of guys playing female characters who feel uncomfortable about flirting with their male companions. Ironically enough, this means those hanging on tightly to the battle cry of homophobia for anyone that does not want SGR in the game are possibly displaying a form of homophobia themselves.

 

If it were true that the majority of people who want SGRAs are male gamers playing female characters, I don't see how you jump to the conclusion that they are motivated by homophobia and not wanting to see [Flirt] options with their male companions. Is it not more likely that they are wanting to see [Flirt] options with their female companions?

 

Either you tend to assume the worst in people, or you are attempting the old "Know who the worst bigots are? The so called liberals!" ploy. It's kind of ranks along side the "Women are more sexist than men" ploy and the "Straight white men are the most discriminated against in society" ploy for stupidity.

[Jherad]

If a larger percentage of people were honest it would likely be found the true request for SGR has nothing to do with equal rights ... the reality is that it has to do with a bunch of guys playing female characters who feel uncomfortable about flirting with their male companions. Ironically enough, this means those hanging on tightly to the battle cry of homophobia for anyone that does not want SGR in the game are possibly displaying a form of homophobia themselves.

 

What in the what?

 

I have no doubt that this applies to a subset of people. But to claim it is the main argument for SGRs, and thus that people arguing for SGRs are homophobic is just...

 

Wow. Get help. You are projecting. HARD.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Jherad

[utio]

That's right! It's okay to hate on someone's religion but not their orientation! This is western civilization, where it's okay to hate some things, but not other things!

 

So the question is, how does the game not offend the religious players who are adamant? Do you tell them to go play another game? That doesn't seem like the right way to go about it, when it was considered offensive to those who wanted SGR.

 

I'm sure there's a compromise...I can't think of one that hasn't been turned downby the devs already however. So I guess you just offend the adamantly religious!

 

Religion is a personal choice, sexual orientation isn't. Also, if people are that religious, they would be offended by alot of other things in the game.

[MajikMyst]

That's right! It's okay to hate on someone's religion but not their orientation! This is western civilization, where it's okay to hate some things, but not other things!

 

So the question is, how does the game not offend the religious players who are adamant? Do you tell them to go play another game? That doesn't seem like the right way to go about it, when it was considered offensive to those who wanted SGR.

 

I'm sure there's a compromise...I can't think of one that hasn't been turned downby the devs already however. So I guess you just offend the adamantly religious!

 

How about we start by teaching some religious people what their religious book actually says..

 

I do believe that somewhere this book says 'Love your enemy.' & 'Turn the other cheek.' or 'Judge not les ye be judged.'

 

Yes, those phrases are in the same book that religious folks wave over their heads as they yell at gay people..

 

There is nothing wrong with SGR.. There is no need for any kind of switch.. If someone is offended by SGR, then that person owns the problem.. Not everyone else.. If they were true believers of their religion, they wouldn't have an issue with it either.. The issue here, is that many of these people are not followers of their religion.. They are just fans..

Edited March 13, 2013 by MajikMyst

[newwb]

as we all know, having to acknowledge the existence of something that you personally disapprove of is the worst kind of discrimination. at least, thats what pat robertson told me

[theUndead]

How about we start by teaching some religious people what their religious book actually says..

 

I do believe that somewhere this book says 'Love your enemy.' & 'Turn the other cheek.' or 'Judge not les ye be judged.'

 

Yes, those phrases are in the same book that religious folks wave over their heads as they yell at gay people..

 

There is nothing wrong with SGR.. There is no need for any kind of switch.. If someone is offended by SGR, then that person owns the problem.. Not everyone else.. If they were true believers of their religion, they wouldn't have an issue with it either.. The issue here, is that many of these people are not followers of their religion.. They are just fans..

 

A thousand times this^.

[SithKoriandr]

It is awful that people think it is fine to do this. You claim that you are not linking homosexuality with pedophilia while mentioning them both in the same breath. The subliminal link is thus made. Shame on you.

 

On a another note, the thing that irks me most these days is the cultivated moral outrage that some people seem to think gives them the right to censor what others can and cannot do. The poster I quote posted something I find wrong, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to do that. I think it was a terrible thing to write, I tell him that and I tell him why. That's how civilised discussion works.

 

The thing is anyone and everyone has the right to think whatever they like, but that does not give you the right to do whatever you like. Above all, you do not have a right to not be offended. If something offends you, say so or shut up and move on, but you can't go around saying that "you can't do that because I find it offensive". So what? Unless it actually harmed you in some way, so what?

 

Some people may find SGRAs offensive. I really don't care. Everyday I encounter things with delight me, amuse me, confuse me, bore me and sometimes offend me. So flipping what?

 

I didn't link them. I stated things animal kingdom is capable of, as the poster was using "animal kingdom does it so it's okay" which is a false statement.

[SithKoriandr]

Religion is a personal choice, sexual orientation isn't. Also, if people are that religious, they would be offended by alot of other things in the game.

 

You lack a point. Seriously. It's still a subset of players who aren't being catered to, and all that would need to be done for them to be catered to, is add a simple switch.

 

No cutscenes would have to be added, no dialogue would have to be added.

 

Not to mention, no other player would even know if the other player was using it or not.

[SithKoriandr]

What in the what?

 

I have no doubt that this applies to a subset of people. But to claim it is the main argument for SGRs, and thus that people arguing for SGRs are homophobic is just...

 

Wow. Get help. You are projecting. HARD.

 

I don't think the poster was projecting. It seems more like you wish the poster was projecting.

 

The posters state was that male players want their yuri fiction, and why they're pro-SGR and most likely (as it seemed to me by their post) not really so much as supportive but "YAY! YURI!" And being all "YAY! YURI!" or "YAY! YAOI!" does not make one supportive when it's...

 

actually...I don't think I can finish that post, it might get into some sort of social aspect, which this thread already has and all threads dealing with this exact same subject, has, yet they don't remove the threads at all.

[Jherad]

You lack a point. Seriously. It's still a subset of players who aren't being catered to, and all that would need to be done for them to be catered to, is add a simple switch..

 

No. For the same reason they shouldn't cater to racists.

 

The posters state was that male players want their yuri fiction, and why they're pro-SGR and most likely (as it seemed to me by their post) not really so much as supportive but "YAY! YURI!" And being all "YAY! YURI!" or "YAY! YAOI!" does not make one supportive when it's...

 

No, I'm pretty sure the poster said that people resisting a switch were 'possibly' homophobic themselves, because they didn't want to date men while playing their female toons.

 

If a larger percentage of people were honest it would likely be found the true request for SGR has nothing to do with equal rights ... the reality is that it has to do with a bunch of guys playing female characters who feel uncomfortable about flirting with their male companions. Ironically enough, this means those hanging on tightly to the battle cry of homophobia for anyone that does not want SGR in the game are possibly displaying a form of homophobia themselves.

 

Yes, that's precisely what they said.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Jherad

[TheNahash]

This thread was pretty sad by itself but it reached a whole new level of sad when people ran out of (or realized they couldn't use) religious/conservative/anachronistic BS to justify their intolerance of others and started trying to turn any straight person who supports other people's right to exist into a sex-depraved loser who only supports equality for the sake of watching some girl on girl action.

 

As a straight man, I find that much more offensive than SGRs.

The notion that straight men are and act like idiotic,constantly aroused teenagers whose opinions are formed on the lower part of their body based on what they consider "hot" and never because we are supportive of others, is infuriating.

 

As if we need this game and its fade-to-black, almost-kissing moments to watch two girls going at it.

Psst... there are other sites completely dedicated to that. Shocking, right?

 

It's even sadder when those posts are made by people who are usually quite rational.

Edited March 13, 2013 by TheNahash

[stuffystuffs]

I say we start a petition for Ea (not bioware but the parent company) to order Bioware to put in an option to turn all romance options off (since most of this agree is the best solution) so that some people aren't offended. This seems to be the most agreeable and best solution to the issue.

 

Of course if SGR's are going to be implemented in "Rise of the Hutt cartel" This would push it's release back a little, but as a pre-orderer I don't mind this at all.

 

This is nice and self-centered. You really want them to push back the release date on this expansion ( for all of us) just so you don't have to see "completely optional...like, you know, you don't have to do it and stuff" same-gendered flirts?

 

lolz

Edited March 13, 2013 by stuffystuffs

[Hyfy]

I can assure you that any kid capable of dealing with the idea of hetero relationships is more than capable of dealing with the idea of SGRs. It's usually the parents that have the problems. SGRs are not some weird 'higher level of complexity'.

 

If they are not prepared to deal with a game that features flirting or 'fade-to-blacks' in general then SWTOR is probably not for them.

 

Each kid is different, there is NO one size fits all approach with kids. To argue otherwise only shows an ignorance when it comes to dealing with children.

[Pscyon]

This is nice and self-centered. You really want them to push back the release date on this expansion ( for all of us) just so you don't have to see "completely optional...like, you know, you don't have to do it and stuff" same-gendered flirts?

 

lolz

 

Considering the usual success rate of online petitions from disgruntled gamers, I don't think there's much cause to fear RotHC's release date changing.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Pscyon

[s_w_sanders]

Other things that exist in the animal kingdom...pedo, killing for sex, killing just for fun (it's not just a mankind thing like the popular quote says), the four letter word that starts with R.

 

Not that I condone or am comparing SGR to either of those, buuuuut, the whole "it exists in the animal kingdom" is total failure.

 

You missed my point by a mile (well over a mile but i'm not measuring actual distance). My point was that's it's perfectly natural.

[Hyfy]

Ok, I will admit I really did not fully understood what you just wrote here (I might be tired, I am not going to say you somehow stammered in the text making it not perfectly clear). But, if you see my older post in this topic, you will see I consider it bad practice to give any censoring options in game with this age rating, warning, and level of graphical representation of said "censorable" stuff.

 

You said your 12 year old kid plays the game. And in that case, I have to argue it is on your responsibility as a parent if you let 12 year old kid play something with 16+ rating, sexual themes warnings and what not.

 

As I said, plenty of other media has much lower age rating, and it is more obvious about sexual themes than this game is.

 

Now, if SWTOR had anything close to Mass Effect 1 (18+, M ratings) romance scene, I could understand why some people might be troubled by their kids seeing it, but since we have nothing even close to it, I fail to see what all the ruckus is about...

 

 

What I am saying is, you made the argument/statement that people seemed irked by having more options. I'm saying it isn't the case because by the very nature of the OP's request whether applied as a blanket turn off ALL flirt options or a selective turn off only OGR/SGR flirt options is in fact asking for even more options.

 

As for my son, implied sexual themes, and SGR's it is at my discretion as a parent as to how much I will or will not allow him exposed to those things and giving me the option to limit how much of what he is exposed to as a whole is not a bad thing. Expounding on the tab A goes with slot B side of relationships can be challenging enough at that age without adding that for some people they prefer a Tab A with Tab B and vice versa approach to life. And as you said in this game the implementation of the fade to black is ambiguous enough which is part of the reason I allow him to play but when you start adding that other layer of play it is getting into an area that I am not as comfortable letting him get involved with at this point because I don't feel he is ready for it. Unless some sort of optioning is implemented I may have to reconsider allowing him to play. I will be testing it before he plays it so I can make my decision based on that.

 

I know it seemed like I jumped around a bit here but I had a.few areas I wanted to cover quick before I had to get back to work.

[s_w_sanders]

This is nice and self-centered. You really want them to push back the release date on this expansion ( for all of us) just so you don't have to see "completely optional...like, you know, you don't have to do it and stuff" same-gendered flirts?

 

lolz

 

Let me explain where i'm coming from. This is Star Wars, Star Wars is huge culturally in our society. Star Wars is also something families bond over. A lot of families wouldn't want that in a game, and if it goes in and someone fights it and get's on 700 club, christian news network, fox news this could explode big time. It could be the death of the game (I've seen stuff like this happen before). I don't want my game to die.

 

As for saying it's rated for teens, we all know the ratings system means nothing. Grand theft auto 3 was rated M but I know all the players weren't over 17. WWE games are rated T, but we all know children play them. WOW is rated T, and we know children play it.

[Hyfy]

I personally don't really care for SGRs. I'm straight and I (miraculously, apparently) do not feel my sexual orientation threatened because there will be a button that gives me the option to flirt with an NPC.

 

What I find quite annoying though, is that people use their children as a means to get something they want (or avoid something they don't), whether that is "violence in games" or "SGRs in games" or anything they don't like.

 

How is "I don't want my child to see it" OK and the minute someone points out there are other (potentially worse)

things in-game that the same child will be exposed to, the person who mentions it is a troll that doesn't understand a parent's fear?

 

No, really. Why?

 

The solution is simple:

Bioware decides what goes in the game. The reason why they add or remove something could be because they support it, because they want to be politically correct or whatever else you can think of. They've already stated that they won't add a toggle button and that it's against the rules to even talk about it.

 

You don't agree with it? You don't allow your child to play the game.

Simple as that.

 

 

I don't know if you are under the impression I am saying I don't want SGR's in the game, and if that is the argument you are trying to make here then you have grossly taken me out of context as I have often been.on this particular subject. I in no shape or form made that argument at all. What I did argue in favor of was the option to suspend those options client side, which would be individually and would not affect anyone else's gameplay except for someone in my house on my computer/s. This isn't a matter of using my kids, it is explaining why I agree with adding the option that would not affect yours or anyone else's gameplay a single bit.

[Hyfy]

As someone who wants SGR options, I will tell you what the problem is.

 

You see, people who want SGR, say they want it for options! They want more options! However, what they don't seem to want is for you to have more options as well! As in, you know, being able to turn it off and not make it an option, which is itself an option!

 

Basically, a lot of people who say they want options, tend to be hypocritical, and really mean, "I want this, and I want everyone else to have it too!"

 

And like previously stated by a previous poster, BW/EA said they will not give this option to anyone. Also, a lot of posters will treat you as evil because you asked for such an option, when they themselves have been saying "Give us more options."

 

And while I'm for SGR, I do see how "More options! Just...not...that...one!" seems off.

 

Thank you for saying what I was thinking. You said it with more composure than I probably would right now too.

 

And for those who may still try to imply it, I'm not arguing against SGR as an option, I'm arguing in favor of the option to be implemented 1 step further.

[utio]

Let me explain where i'm coming from. This is Star Wars, Star Wars is huge culturally in our society. Star Wars is also something families bond over. A lot of families wouldn't want that in a game, and if it goes in and someone fights it and get's on 700 club, christian news network, fox news this could explode big time. It could be the death of the game (I've seen stuff like this happen before). I don't want my game to die.

 

As for saying it's rated for teens, we all know the ratings system means nothing. Grand theft auto 3 was rated M but I know all the players weren't over 17. WWE games are rated T, but we all know children play them. WOW is rated T, and we know children play it.

 

Hi, I'm gay, and I'm part of a family:)

Also, rating system is only worthless if parents dodge their responsibility.

[Kahotep]

I don't know if you are under the impression I am saying I don't want SGR's in the game, and if that is the argument you are trying to make here then you have grossly taken me out of context as I have often been.on this particular subject. I in no shape or form made that argument at all. What I did argue in favor of was the option to suspend those options client side, which would be individually and would not affect anyone else's gameplay except for someone in my house on my computer/s. This isn't a matter of using my kids, it is explaining why I agree with adding the option that would not affect yours or anyone else's gameplay a single bit.

 

Except that it will impact everyone's gameplay if it delays the release of the expansion. I have yet to see a single argument that convinces me that an on/off toggle is necessary (with the emphasis on NECESSARY). You might WANT the option, but I WANT the expansion to be released on time.