Slowpokeking Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I mean they are 6 powerful Sith Lords, who could destroy an entire fleet's will, but it just took 1 Jedi plus some special forces to capture them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I mean they are 6 powerful Sith Lords, who could destroy an entire fleet's will, but it just took 1 Jedi plus some special forces to capture them? Its because that 1 jedi in his prime was the most powerful jedi in the order at the time. Jaric Kaedan was a master of his own variant of Form Vii: Juyo Kos, and was considered the living weapon of the jedi order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Its because that 1 jedi in his prime was the most powerful jedi in the order at the time. Jaric Kaedan was a master of his own variant of Form Vii: Juyo Kos, and was considered the living weapon of the jedi order. He was killed by the Empire quite easily on Ilum. I believe he could handle 1, but those are 6 Dread Masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 He was killed by the Empire quite easily on Ilum. I believe he could handle 1, but those are 6 Dread Masters. He was long past his prime on Ilum, remember he defeated and captured the Dread Masters in his prime which was about 29years before the Sacking of Coruscant, any human would have lost a step in that time. Also game mechanics arent a good measuring stick on ones power. It takes 8-16ppl to kill Jarg and Sorno on KP yet it takes only 4ppl to beat Darth Malgus (Ik some ppl have 3manned KP, but others have soloed Malgus). Are Jarg and Sorno 2bounty hunters stronger than Darth Malgus? No that is solely game mechanics at work there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogetrooper Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 1. company+ off spc ops with strong mined to limting the effect dread master power over fear 2 aremd with flash bang and sonic granades frag granades and defence for sayed weapons 3 blaste the dread lord with blaster at stun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 He was long past his prime on Ilum, remember he defeated and captured the Dread Masters in his prime which was about 29years before the Sacking of Coruscant, any human would have lost a step in that time. Also game mechanics arent a good measuring stick on ones power. It takes 8-16ppl to kill Jarg and Sorno on KP yet it takes only 4ppl to beat Darth Malgus (Ik some ppl have 3manned KP, but others have soloed Malgus). Are Jarg and Sorno 2bounty hunters stronger than Darth Malgus? No that is solely game mechanics at work there. Satele Shan is 60 in the game but she doesn't appear weaker, only stronger with the Force. I'm saying he was clearly killed by a small Empire force on Ilum, but the Dread Masters could break an entire fleet's will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osetto Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 One thing to note is that the Dead Masters' capture took place almost thirty years before the time the game takes place. A lot can happen in thirty years when it comes to aging and skill. Some Force-users grow stronger, some grow weaker with age. It stands to reason that the Kaedan encountered in game might not be as powerful as he was in his earlier years. As for the Dread Masters, they were defeated, not killed, so that has an influence on how the event could be understood. The Sith were aboard their flagship, meaning there could have been a number of factors that contributed to their capture beyond a mere bout with lightsabers and the Force. Many a Force-user has been overcome because of their environment rather than their opponent's power. Then there's the fact that the Dread Master's were prophets, advisors, battle-meditators, and so on. There's a chance that a well placed strike team could disrupt their operations and lead to their defeat. The old 'there attention was focused elsewhere' trope often brought up when dealing with powerful Sith could be brought up here. A small strike team of specially trained Spec Forces lead by an extremely powerful Jedi could probably overcome any threats to their willpower/mental faculties. And since fear is a big part of their power, overcoming that could go a long way in achieving an advantage. The Dread Masters were viewed as some of the most powerful Sith operating during the Great Galactic War, but I don't think they were parading into battle headfirst. Without specific details, there's no telling what the participating actors were like thirty years before we see them in game. Kaeden could have possessed some technique that shielded or hid his team's minds from his opponents. Maybe on board their flagship, the Sith managed to get separated, diluting their power. Or maybe the Dread Masters were a bunch of squishy wizards back then, and only after stewing in their hatred and the Darkside energies present on Belsavis did they truly become the threat we see after their release and recovery. In the end, they proved to be a set of antagonists that weren't, and aren't, invincible. Which is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Satele Shan is 60 in the game but she doesn't appear weaker, only stronger with the Force. I'm saying he was clearly killed by a small Empire force on Ilum, but the Dread Masters could break an entire fleet's will. Shes stronger in the force, however even she admits that shes not as strong as she once was during one of the FP dialogues. The Dread Masters claim to power is that they can break the will of others using a corrupted version of Battle Meditation, their power of fear, they can also use this to empower whoever they choose in a corrupted and unnatural way (Kephess is the prime example of this from growing 2x his normal size during Denova and becoming even more of a monster on Asation). That being said, powerful force users have been known to be able to resist or even be completely immune to the effects of Battle meitation (normal or corrupted). Revan was immune to the effects of Bastila's battle meditation when he was looking for her on the Star Forge. The Emperor's Wrath and Darth Nox are resistant to the Dread Masters power of fear (probably even immune now which explains why after EC they didnt try to use their power on you). Just a little reminder, remember who killed Sidious in Dark Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Shes stronger in the force, however even she admits that shes not as strong as she once was during one of the FP dialogues. The Dread Masters claim to power is that they can break the will of others using a corrupted version of Battle Meditation, their power of fear, they can also use this to empower whoever they choose in a corrupted and unnatural way (Kephess is the prime example of this from growing 2x his normal size during Denova and becoming even more of a monster on Asation). That being said, powerful force users have been known to be able to resist or even be completely immune to the effects of Battle meitation (normal or corrupted). Revan was immune to the effects of Bastila's battle meditation when he was looking for her on the Star Forge. The Emperor's Wrath and Darth Nox are resistant to the Dread Masters power of fear (probably even immune now which explains why after EC they didnt try to use their power on you). Just a little reminder, remember who killed Sidious in Dark Empire. And when she was young her lightsaber skills couldn't even beat Malgus(before he killed his lover and became stronger), I don't think the Grand Master Satele is even weaker than that. They use Force Lightning as well, also they could teleport from distance. Edited March 12, 2013 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimasterjac Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 He was killed by the Empire quite easily on Ilum. I believe he could handle 1, but those are 6 Dread Masters. Remember he is much older now. He's falling out of practice, his skills dulled by age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Remember he is much older now. He's falling out of practice, his skills dulled by age. and after he fought the dread masters he has never come back to the old shiny days.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaleTogras Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 and after he fought the dread masters he has never come back to the old shiny days.. I recommend watching this video: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/mechanics-as-metaphor-part-1 BioWare has been struggling with balancing the mechanical side of a progressivly more and more over-the-top MMO structure with the relatively human-scale lore of Star Wars. Lore-wise, the Dread Masters are just really powerful humans. Mechanic-wise, each dread Master is being turned into an over-the-top 60-foot boss monster with the power to raise the dead, control armies, summon horrors from outer space etc. So both lore and mechanic-wise, Jaric's age is a hand-wave excuse to why he's a solo-able boss instead of the biggest, baddest mo-fo you ever got your rear handed by . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I recommend watching this video: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/mechanics-as-metaphor-part-1 BioWare has been struggling with balancing the mechanical side of a progressivly more and more over-the-top MMO structure with the relatively human-scale lore of Star Wars. Lore-wise, the Dread Masters are just really powerful humans. Mechanic-wise, each dread Master is being turned into an over-the-top 60-foot boss monster with the power to raise the dead, control armies, summon horrors from outer space etc. So both lore and mechanic-wise, Jaric's age is a hand-wave excuse to why he's a solo-able boss instead of the biggest, baddest mo-fo you ever got your rear handed by . I know what you mean, Kaedan beat all 6 of em and hes soloable yet 1 dread master turns into a 60ft monster with all those abilities you mentioned above. Angral was Malgus' commanding sith during the Sacking of Coruscant, yet hes an act1 boss while Malgus is a lvl 50fp boss where it takes 4ppl to down him. Darth Jadus is 2nd in power only to the Emperor himself and yet he too is only in act1, i mean come on bioware give us something believeable at least. Do you really think that 3 dread guard commanders in TFB would take 8-16ppl to kill would destroy 1 DC member that you could down on Corellia? Makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 I mean it's not just game mechanic. Numerous sources mentioned the Dread Masters are extremely powerful, shouldn't be weaker than Dark Council members. I can accept Jaric beat 1 or even 2, but he captured all 6 of them alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoshiRaphElan Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I mean it's not just game mechanic. Numerous sources mentioned the Dread Masters are extremely powerful, shouldn't be weaker than Dark Council members. I can accept Jaric beat 1 or even 2, but he captured all 6 of them alive. It just means Jaric is a beast, and game mechanics made him not so beast-y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetulhu Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 How? The story doesn't say. If you think he wasn't powerful enough to defeat them in combat maybe he used some sort of trickery or anti-Dark Side weapon? Or maybe he pounced on them when they were drained after channeling their power in a long battle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) It just means Jaric is a beast, and game mechanics made him not so beast-y. I don't think he's much stronger than Satele, and Satele couldn't even beat Malgus alone. Even in the Threat of Peace comic, 10 years before the game, she had no advantage against Baras alone. In the Ilum quest line, if he once could defeat 6 Dread Masters, there is no way he would be defeated by a small Empire Force even if he wasn't on his peak. The Empire also would not be that stupid to send so few troops against them. Edited March 15, 2013 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) I think that Jaric Kaedan is the Mace Windu of TOR. So him getting beaten by us on Illum with one measly companion... is sort of a letdown. Now that we've all had the change to beat the Dread Guards (TFB), Styrak (S+V), and the Dread Masters (Oricon) I've got to say I don't believe that Jaric Kaedan actually did it with just some random troopers. It was probably him + 15 of the Republics Best Soldiers. Edited November 8, 2013 by AshlaBoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) I think that Jaric Kaedan is the Mace Windu of TOR. So him getting beaten by us on Illum with one measly companion... is sort of a letdown. Now that we've all had the change to beat the Dread Guards (TFB), Styrak (S+V), and the Dread Masters (Oricon) I've got to say I don't believe that Jaric Kaedan actually did it with just some random troopers. It was probably him + 15 of the Republics Best Soldiers. I hope I don't get into trouble by mentioning this but originally, it seems the all Oricon operation, as far as the briefing would go, was to be fairly similar to what you've seen in Karagga's Palace, Explosive Conflict and so forth, with no daily area as a prelude. However, in this, you'd get the chance to meet the Republic Commander who accompanied Kaedan to capture the Dread Masters and he was to shed some light on the subject and how he regretted not having them killed on the spot. Also, Empire side, you'd get to meet the individual who was apparently leading(?) the Dread Masters, when the War was still going on. If you'd like to read the dialogues, just go to Torhead.com and... Tools > Guides > Patch Leaks v1.2 to v1.5 > Patch v1.5 Be careful where you click though, since there's stuff in there that HAS NOT YET been released and will be most likely, in some form or another. On a personal note, it's kinda jarring since the original dialogues is far more interesting than the stuff you got on Oricon. Real shame... Edited November 8, 2013 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMagus Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 God may not play dice with the universe, but the Force certainly stacks the deck when it plays. Sometimes weaker people beat stronger because the force plays favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphrosyne Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 God may not play dice with the universe, but the Force certainly stacks the deck when it plays. Sometimes weaker people beat stronger because the force plays favorites. So what, now the Empire's fanboys have accepted their defeat and are turning to the Dolchstoßlegende to assuage their hurt feelings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts