Pyro/AP PVE Guide

[bbare]

This is a Guide explaining the changes to the pyro powertech for 2.0. The build has altered significantly, going from a semi-hybrid to a full-hybrid.

 

Talent Builds: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/powertech/231/?build=003000000000000000000000000000000223120220100212001000000000000003230300121200120200000000000000&ver=20

 

OR

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/powertech/231/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000223120220100212001000000000000003230300121200120230000000000000&ver=20

 

Cylinder: Combustible Gas Cylinder

 

 

Abbreviations:

 

RB: Retractable Blade

RS: Rail Shot

IM: Incendiary Missle

FB: Flame Burst

RP: Rocket Punch

RPS: Rapid Shots

TSO: Thermal Sensor Override

VH: Vent Heat

EF: Explosive Fuel

PPA: Prototype Particle Accelerator

CG: Charged Gauntlets

FBA: Flame Barrage

PPA RS: Rail Shot Proc'd by PPA

SC: Shoulder Cannon

 

 

This build is built around 3 procs:

 

1. PPA: FB has a 45% chance and RP has a 60% chance to finish the cooldown of RS and make your next RS cost no heat.

 

2. CG: Damage by RB and RP have a 25% chance to make your next RS an auto-crit

 

3. FBA: FB has a 30% chance to make your next RP cost no heat.

 

 

Resource Rules:

 

Your next ability should not put your heat above 40, unless you have vent heat available. If vent heat is available, it is acceptable to overheat to 70 at maximum. Vent heat generally is used when you are getting screwed by the RNG with PPA procs. Good time to use VH is when you are in a burst phase and need to spam FB to get PPA procs.

 

Rotation

 

RB > IM > RS > PPA Rotation > Filler Rotation > PPA Rotation > Filler Rotation...and so on.

 

 

PPA Rotation:

 

The bread and butter of this spec is making sure you proc PPA as many times as possible. As mentioned beforehand, RP has a 60% chance to proc this, and FB has a 45% chance to proc this. Because of this, RP should always be kept available for the PPA rotation. Never use RP for the filler rotation. The PPA Rotation is the following:

 

1. RP, if on CD, go to 4

2. if PPA, use PPA RS. if not, go to 3

3. RPS

4. FB

5. if PPA, use PPA RS. if not, go back to 3

 

*Once RP comes off CD, go back to 1.

 

The PPA rotation ends immediately after using PPA RS. Then you go to the filler rotation.

 

The 6 Sec Rule:

 

Because PPA has a 6 sec internal cd, you will have 6 sec from the time you proc PPA to the time you can attempt to proc it again. Therefore, from the time you use your PPA RS, you will have 2 global cooldowns as "filler."

 

Your filler rotation is the following listed by priority:

 

1. Refresh RB, Refresh IM or Refresh IM, Refresh RB (depending on which is falling off first)

2. Refresh RB, FB

3. Refresh RB, RPS

4. Refresh IM, FB

5. Refresh IM, RPS

6. FB, FB

7. FB, RPS

 

You should always refresh RB if it is about to come off in your Filler rotation. Keeping up RB at all times is extremely important, because it will proc CG, making your next RS an auto-crit. Refreshing IM is less important, because it is simply an extra damaging ability. However, refreshing IM when you can in your filler rotation will maximize your dps. Remember the resource rules. Use the filler so that your next ability won't put yourself over 40 heat. The most common filler rotations are 3, 5, and 7 due to heat management. 1 and 2 usually occur when your heat would be 0 after the PPA rotation (See exceptions 1) 4 is extremely rare and used only in burst situations when you don't need a RB refresh. 6 is used in burst situations when you don't need to refresh RB or IM.

 

 

Exceptions/Tips

 

1. If a PPA procs when your heat is under 18, it is acceptable to use skill 1 of your filler rotation first, then PPA RS, finally finishing the filler rotation with skill 2 of filler rotation. This is because your PPA RS actually vents 8 heat when you use it. You don't want to waste heat generation when your heat is 0.

 

Also don't use RS immediately following a PPA proc unless you also have a CG proc up too. It doesn't matter at all where in the 3 GCDs following a PPA proc that you actually use it, so give the RB dot a few more chances to proc CG before you fire off the RS (Steave)

 

2. EF should be used on CD, unless you need to save it for burst phases.

 

However, you want to treat EF as a 2 min CD instead of 1 min 45, to allow it to sync with your relic. (Steave)

 

3. Not mentioned in this build is SC. It should be used on cooldown and fired while you are using other skills, because it is off the GCD. Treat it like EF, adrenals, relics...etc. But make sure you unload all of your missiles quickly to get the CD running again. You can also pre-load your missiles prior to a fight so you can blast them off in your opener.

 

4. FBA proc you don't have to track obsessively. However, you don't want to use a free RP when your heat is 0, so skip RP and go with a FB to attempt to proc, then go back to RP if you don't get a proc. Luckily, it is a rare situation you will get a FBA proc when you need to use RP and you have 0 heat.

 

5. TSO usually is used with IM, but can vary. You can either save it for IM or use it on CD to keep your heat down if needed.

 

6. Sometimes RNG fails you and you'll be ~3 seconds from having RS come off CD naturally - when that happens, I'll stop using FB/RP until RS CD runs out so I can fire it off and then instantly proc an another one directly after without the usual 3 GCD wait. (Steave)

Edited February 28, 2013 by bbare

[steave]

Generally good, although there are a few points I disagree with:

1. Don't use RS immediately following a PPA proc unless you also have a CG proc up too. It doesn't matter at all where in the 3 GCDs following a PPA proc that you actually use it, so give the RB dot a few more chances to proc CG before you fire off the RS.

 

2. IMO, IM isn't worth the heat except during CD phases. 3 FB and 1 RpS should do slightly more damage than 2 IM (both using the same amount of heat) when accounting for the extra CGC hits - and just using a FB during the filler phase will allow you to actually dissipate some heat instead of just staying neutral like with IM.

 

3. Make sure to sync all your cooldowns - you will get much more out of your adrenal and clicky power relic if the extra strong attacks are also amplified by 25% higher crit chance from EF and you have vent heat available so you can just spam tech attacks/railshots using VH to keep heat manageable instead of having to do RpS while your cooldowns are running. This is also the only time I recommend IM - pop TSO+IM right before EF+relic+adrenal and the majority of that attack will be amplified by the cooldowns, unlike a RpS or FB which would not benefit at all from them if it's used before CDs are used. Effectively, you should treat EF as having a 2 min CD so it can be synced with TSO and relic instead of the actual 1:45 CD.

I'm a bit uncertain about the adrenal though - I'm not sure if it's better to use it on CD (thus missing the EF and vent heat boost half the time and only having the adrenal active 33% of the time the other CDs are) or treat it as a 4 min CD and just use it every second time the other CDs become available. Personally, I'm going with the second option atm.

 

4. Play it smart with PPA procs. Sometimes RNG fails you and you'll be ~3 seconds from having RS come off CD naturally - when that happens, I'll stop using FB/RP until RS CD runs out so I can fire it off and then instantly proc an another one directly after without the usual 3 GCD wait.

Edited February 28, 2013 by steave

[steave]

Oops, hit the quote button instead of edit. Delete this please Edited February 28, 2013 by steave

[mrObtuse]

great update. hey, do you think this will certifiably work better than 2/36/8 ? you gain efficiency on automatic rocket punch free after the cheap top of tree attack, however you have to be extremely vigilant with the heat-ammo bar as always with plasma-pyro

[bbare]

Generally good, although there are a few points I disagree with:

1. Don't use RS immediately following a PPA proc unless you also have a CG proc up too. It doesn't matter at all where in the 3 GCDs following a PPA proc that you actually use it, so give the RB dot a few more chances to proc CG before you fire off the RS.

 

2. IMO, IM isn't worth the heat except during CD phases. 3 FB and 1 RpS should do slightly more damage than 2 IM (both using the same amount of heat) when accounting for the extra CGC hits - and just using a FB during the filler phase will allow you to actually dissipate some heat instead of just staying neutral like with IM.

 

3. Make sure to sync all your cooldowns - you will get much more out of your adrenal and clicky power relic if the extra strong attacks are also amplified by 25% higher crit chance from EF and you have vent heat available so you can just spam tech attacks/railshots using VH to keep heat manageable instead of having to do RpS while your cooldowns are running. This is also the only time I recommend IM - pop TSO+IM right before EF+relic+adrenal and the majority of that attack will be amplified by the cooldowns, unlike a RpS or FB which would not benefit at all from them if it's used before CDs are used. Effectively, you should treat EF as having a 2 min CD so it can be synced with TSO and relic instead of the actual 1:45 CD.

I'm a bit uncertain about the adrenal though - I'm not sure if it's better to use it on CD (thus missing the EF and vent heat boost half the time and only having the adrenal active 33% of the time the other CDs are) or treat it as a 4 min CD and just use it every second time the other CDs become available. Personally, I'm going with the second option atm.

 

4. Play it smart with PPA procs. Sometimes RNG fails you and you'll be ~3 seconds from having RS come off CD naturally - when that happens, I'll stop using FB/RP until RS CD runs out so I can fire it off and then instantly proc an another one directly after without the usual 3 GCD wait.

 

1. That was an oversight. It is something I do myself, but forgot to mention it. I will add that to the guide.

2. IM will put up more damage than a flame burst over time. Although FB does proc CGC, that is proc'd all of the time and a single FB will not account for all 6 sec of the CGC dot most of the time. Heat management is pretty easy in this spec, and you will not have heat problems by refreshing IM every chance you get.

3. That was an oversight, as well. It is something I do, but forgot to mention the reduced CD.

4. This has yet to happen to me in 2.0, because heat management is easier so you get way more chances to proc, but I'll add it anyway.

Edited February 28, 2013 by bbare

[Leira_Kheren]

I owuld argue that with the overall scaling nerf to crit from mainstats the 3 points in rain of fire will yield more dmg than those in steely resolve. otherwise its a good shrt review hat we could expect from 2.0

[KTap]

I owuld argue that with the overall scaling nerf to crit from mainstats the 3 points in rain of fire will yield more dmg than those in steely resolve. otherwise its a good shrt review hat we could expect from 2.0

 

I found this to be true when I was parsing (3 points into Rain of Fire did more damage than 3 to Steely Resolve)

 

Also 0/23/23 with 2 points to Prototype Flamethrower and 1 to Rain of Fire is putting out some impressive numbers.

 

tbh I expect a nerf of some sort, these builds can do 3-3.1k sustained dps on the pts.

Edited February 28, 2013 by KTap

[bbare]

I owuld argue that with the overall scaling nerf to crit from mainstats the 3 points in rain of fire will yield more dmg than those in steely resolve. otherwise its a good shrt review hat we could expect from 2.0

 

I found them to be about the same in terms of damage. However, I am using Aim augments which would overvalue the 3/21/22 build. My guess would be that overkill augments would make the 21/25 build better.

[Grimoir]

Hey guys! Guess who has been running this for almost a whole year?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465981

 

2.0 Will only make it better, with access to Firebug and Steely Resolve.

 

#hipster #feelsgoodman

Edited March 1, 2013 by Grimoir

[KTap]

Hey guys! Guess who has been running this for almost a whole year?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465981

 

2.0 Will only make it better, with access to Firebug and Steely Resolve.

 

#hipster

 

Yea, I've used something similar on live, but without firebug it's not any better than pure pyrotech for pve (I noticed your thread was about pvp)

 

The 2.0 version is vastly superior to pure pyrotech though, for pve anyways.

[ChaoticDynamite]

I found this to be true when I was parsing (3 points into Rain of Fire did more damage than 3 to Steely Resolve)

 

Also 0/23/23 with 2 points to Prototype Flamethrower and 1 to Rain of Fire is putting out some impressive numbers.

 

tbh I expect a nerf of some sort, these builds can do 3-3.1k sustained dps on the pts.

 

Yeah I agree this build is just all the better with prototype flamethrower.

[Grimoir]

Yea, I've used something similar on live, but without firebug it's not any better than pure pyrotech for pve (I noticed your thread was about pvp)

 

The 2.0 version is vastly superior to pure pyrotech though, for pve anyways.

 

Yeah, I rolled the character to be PvP only, but I've been running dailies on him and gearing him up for PvE using this build lately. Certainly not as good as pure Pyro atm, but once 2.0 hits, I'm sure it will blow pure Pyro and AP builds out of the water in both PvP and PvE. It has some insane burst when you can line up two PPA procs with an ED and RP. Then with 2-3 DoTs ticking at all times, you can put pressure on multiple targets easily. Plus its more fun to play =P

[KTap]

Yeah, I rolled the character to be PvP only, but I've been running dailies on him and gearing him up for PvE using this build lately. Certainly not as good as pure Pyro atm, but once 2.0 hits, I'm sure it will blow pure Pyro and AP builds out of the water in both PvP and PvE. It has some insane burst when you can line up two PPA procs with an ED and RP. Then with 2-3 DoTs ticking at all times, you can put pressure on multiple targets easily. Plus its more fun to play =P

 

Yes, stabbing people does feels great

 

It is definitely better currently than pure pyrotech for pve in 2.0, haven't tried a full ap builds though... might have to try it just for fun.

[Grimoir]

Yes, stabbing people does feels great

 

It is definitely better currently than pure pyrotech for pve in 2.0, haven't tried a full ap builds though... might have to try it just for fun.

 

I've always wanted AP to feel better than it does. Its got some cool skills and a good kit, it just cant compete at this point with the insane burst of Pyro. I guess my major peeve about AP is that I don't like Flamethrower in general. For how mobile of a CLASS that PT/Van is supposed to be, I hate having to stand still to channel it. In PvE its alot different, but I still hate having to stand still. I do enough of that on my turre---err Commando...

Edited March 1, 2013 by Grimoir

[KTap]

I've always wanted AP to feel better than it does. Its got some cool skills and a good kit, it just cant compete at this point with the insane burst of Pyro. I guess my major peeve about AP is that I don't like Flamethrower in general. For how mobile of a specCLASS that PT/Van is supposed to be, I hate having to stand still to channel it. In PvE its alot different, but I still hate having to stand still. I do enough of that on my turre---err Commando...

 

Yea, I'm talking strictly about pve. I do pvp, however, and flamethrower is pretty limited in its use there.

 

I'm a mobile player and can't stand mercenary/commando dpsing Even if I'm fighting a stationary boss or something I still move around a lot... it's pretty humorous to watch me on someone else's game play video running around and giggling while I FB and RS.

[Grimoir]

Yea, I'm talking strictly about pve. I do pvp, however, and flamethrower is pretty limited in its use there.

 

I'm a mobile player and can't stand mercenary/commando dpsing Even if I'm fighting a stationary boss or something I still move around a lot... it's pretty humorous to watch me on someone else's game play video running around and giggling while I FB and RS.

 

Im EXACTLY the same way. I kite circles around bosses just because it feels so. damn. good. It just comes naturally to me from my time spent PvPing I think. In either case though, I'm just super excited that the spec is finally(for now) getting the attention it deserves!

[mrObtuse]

Grim, had you ever compared your experience with 31 tactic/AP and 8 in assault/pyro?

 

I am looking at 2/36/8 in 2.0, and it seems like the OVERALL efficiency works out a bit better with the maxed version over the hybrid, but then does the rail shot damage with accelerator resets surpass that as long as you are smart enough with resources to pull it off?

 

I don't really care of the fine details in the math. All I saw was 3k+ crit on fire pulse/immolate, 3500 usually, as well as the higher damage with my rocket punch and flame burst too, which appeared to me to be a net gain given the efficiency available with the guaranteed free punch/stock following the cheap fire pulse

[Grimoir]

Grim, had you ever compared your experience with 31 tactic/AP and 8 in assault/pyro?

 

I am looking at 2/36/8 in 2.0, and it seems like the OVERALL efficiency works out a bit better with the maxed version over the hybrid, but then does the rail shot damage with accelerator resets surpass that as long as you are smart enough with resources to pull it off?

 

I don't really care of the fine details in the math. All I saw was 3k+ crit on fire pulse/immolate, 3500 usually, as well as the higher damage with my rocket punch and flame burst too, which appeared to me to be a net gain given the efficiency available with the guaranteed free punch/stock following the cheap fire pulse

 

I've tried all the variations that seemed viable to make the AP tree work, but I just found it to be extremely lacking in burst damage when trying to take down a target with a healer, much less healers themselves. It also fails miserably when dueling Pyros... Only saving grace of going all the way up the Tactics/AP tree is the boost in survivability from Shock Absorbers which helps against lolsmashers and Hyrbid Assassins.

 

Only class that really gives me trouble in any of the damaging spec variants is the Assassin/Shadow, in fact. They are exceptional duelists and have the skill-set to counter pretty much any burst that I try to put out. Maybe I just need to L2P or something, but fortunately they're the one class I have trouble with. GOOD DoT spec Sents/Maras can be a pain sometimes, but if I time everything out properly, they go down fast enough.

[Sosajoshua]

Well judging from the PTS tree AP/Tactics looks like itll be able to better tackle Pyros although its still lacking burst and burst-spam that Pyro so obviously has. With that being said the boosts in AP seem to be well enough that it can compete well with Pyro though it will still be a bit behind. There havent that many improvements to Pyro dps from the new trees while AP has gotta some dps boosts and dot boosts. Coupled with the free RP and crit RS i think the new dps boost make AP that much more viable. The only problem pvp-wise with AP is that Flamethrower is only really good when protecting a node, however mix that now eith the Shoulder Cannon and protecting should go by fairly easily imo