Tanking?

[abokado]

So, huh? Where is the PT Tanking guide? Or where is the general tanking guide in the tanking role forum? You'd think there would be something like that in a forum called Tanking.

Ahem, yeah. I've never tanked and only played DPS and I want to know how to tank. I only know of one site I kept looking at (noxxic), but I've spend some time here looking for guides and read several times that this website is bad, so I'm at a loss..

What's the rota as a PT tank? What exactly do I need to do as tank?

I mean, I know something since I've done about endcontent, but not everything is clear. Do I need to attack each and every mob, even the weak and strong ones? Or do I just concentrate on the champs and elites? If I have aggro on alle of them, do I hit the lowest mob, too (to get it dead quicker), or do I keep targeting the stronges to maintain aggro?

Is it my job to get those normal/strong mobs that may attack the healer or is it the DD's job? Because my experience as a DD in a PuG wasn't always very consistent.. I always go to the weak ones first and work myself up and or get the mob that's attacking the healer, regardless of it's status, but most of the time I'm the only DD doing this, so I'm not sure on this.

Any advice would be really appreciated. (I thought I post in here instead of the tanking forum since tanking as PT is different than as a Jugg/Assa, right?)

[Senga_J]

http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/bounty-hunter/powertech/shield-tech

[planet_J]

Ok...this is a crash course...

 

As a PT tank, you have good mitigation naturally...so...

 

You want to attack the strongest mob first...(Elite/Champion, then Strong...etc)...if there are multiple hard targets (2 elites for example) you'll want to attack one, and taunt the other onto you. The next part is CRUCIAL.

 

(1) When you Taunt, you need to be a few meters, in game, away from the targets (2-4m NOT more than 4 though), this MULTIPLIES your threat.

 

(2) AFTER YOU TAUNT, you MUST damage the targets you want to keep taunted to you, or DPS will pull them from you.

 

When you're guarding group mates...you'll want to actually guard the highest DPS toon, as that reduces their threat in PVE, in PVP it gives a big damage reduction so guard healers.

 

Your DPS should start by melting the lesser mobs first and work their way to your target...they should NOT start by attacking your target first!

 

You want to keep an eye on your health as much as possible, and once you get a feel for your cooldowns (defensive powers) then you'll want to use those when necessary...Your shield ability is one I like to use around 40-50% health if I dip that low...it will give you enough time to react and medpack or let your healer catch up.

 

Positioning:

 

You want to position the hard targets in such a manner that they are turned away from your DPS...so that when they AoE, it won't hit your group mates.

 

This can also mean moving them slightly to a different area, and often times, it will benefit you to move them so you, yourself, do not take unnecessary damage.

 

This knowledge will come from knowing the battles.

 

Strategy:

 

You'll want to keep your DPS aware of how you're going to tank the battle, so they know if you're going to move the main target, and when. This will also allow them to adjust to where they need to be so they can be as efficient in helping you kill the bad guys as quickly as possible.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Other than that...shoot for 25+% Defense and 50+% shield/absorption and make sure you keep your gear updated.

 

Happy hunting.

Edited February 26, 2013 by planet_J

[planet_J]

http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/bounty-hunter/powertech/shield-tech

 

No...just no...noxxic is TERRIBLE! don't post a link to noxxic...ever again!

[abokado]

http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/bounty-hunter/powertech/shield-tech

 

Did you even read my post, bro?

 

Ok...this is a crash course...

 

As a PT tank, you have good mitigation naturally...so...

 

You want to attack the strongest mob first...(Elite/Champion, then Strong...etc)...if there are multiple hard targets (2 elites for example) you'll want to attack one, and taunt the other onto you. The next part is CRUCIAL.

 

(1) When you Taunt, you need to be a few meters, in game, away from the targets (2-4m NOT more than 4 though), this MULTIPLIES your threat.

 

(2) AFTER YOU TAUNT, you MUST damage the targets you want to keep taunted to you, or DPS will pull them from you.

 

When you're guarding group mates...you'll want to actually guard the highest DPS toon, as that reduces their threat in PVE, in PVP it gives a big damage reduction so guard healers.

 

Your DPS should start by melting the lesser mobs first and work their way to your target...they should NOT start by attacking your target first!

 

You want to keep an eye on your health as much as possible, and once you get a feel for your cooldowns (defensive powers) then you'll want to use those when necessary...Your shield ability is one I like to use around 40-50% health if I dip that low...it will give you enough time to react and medpack or let your healer catch up.

 

Positioning:

 

You want to position the hard targets in such a manner that they are turned away from your DPS...so that when they AoE, it won't hit your group mates.

 

This can also mean moving them slightly to a different area, and often times, it will benefit you to move them so you, yourself, do not take unnecessary damage.

 

This knowledge will come from knowing the battles.

 

Strategy:

 

You'll want to keep your DPS aware of how you're going to tank the battle, so they know if you're going to move the main target, and when. This will also allow them to adjust to where they need to be so they can be as efficient in helping you kill the bad guys as quickly as possible.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Other than that...shoot for 25+% Defense and 50+% shield/absorption and make sure you keep your gear updated.

 

Happy hunting.

Great! Thanks!

So if I have a few mobs in bulk with me, say a strong, elite and champion, do I attack the strongest one the whole time or do I attack the weakest one to get him down faster?

 

And what about a rota?

I just discovered yesterday that using missile blast or something is reaaally bad for my heat and I put it further down my quickbar and now I have almost no heat problem anymore because I'm using the fire blast thingy instead now.

[Marb]

I would recommend doing a skim through the tanking role sub-forum to understand taunt mechanics, dps kill order and stat weights (BiS stats with stim look like: 17-19% defence, 58-60% shield chance, 58-60% shield absorb) . Most of the pt tank playstyle is self-evident as its very simple and passive in design, but here's a quick and dirty:

 

 

 

• 
   
  
• Never start or pull with a taunt
  
• Always keep heat blast on cooldown
  
• Always keep rocket punch on cooldown, always hit it when it procs
  
• Always keep railshot on cooldown
  
• Always keep flamethrower / death from above on cooldown if heat allows
  
• Use flameburst to refresh debuff, and as a filler if all else is on cooldown.
  
• Keep heat below 40, use vent heat after you flood your heat meter, not before
  
• Don't forget to use explosive fuel, pair with flamethrower and death from above for best effect
  
• Only ever use thermal sensor override on flamethrower or death from above, nothing else
  
• Never use grappel as a threat builder
  
• Use oil slick on cooldown for applicable damage types
  
• Kolto overload is not an oh **** button
  
• Use kolto overload to fill in downtime between oil slicks, or save it for force / tech using enemies
  
• Don't use kolto overload at full health
  
• Energy shield is your only *real* defensive cooldown, use it wisely
  
• Don't use unload
  
• Don't use explosive dart in your melee tanking priority (some don't use it at all)
  
• Some weave in flamesweep in the opening volley, consuming flamesurge charges to keep heat down
  

 

Edited February 28, 2013 by Marb

[OlosBC]

Did you even read my post, bro?

 

 

Great! Thanks!

So if I have a few mobs in bulk with me, say a strong, elite and champion, do I attack the strongest one the whole time or do I attack the weakest one to get him down faster?

 

And what about a rota?

I just discovered yesterday that using missile blast or something is reaaally bad for my heat and I put it further down my quickbar and now I have almost no heat problem anymore because I'm using the fire blast thingy instead now.

 

 

The poster just above me (marb) has a pretty good list for a rotation.

 

You can take missle blast off your bar at like level 15 or so.

 

If you have a few mobs in front of you, dont worry about which one you are focusing, cause you will be AoEing the **** out of all of them. (DfA, Flamethrower, free flame sweeps, explosive dart, rail shot(talented into applying cylinder effect to aoe), and still using heat blast on cooldown, on whatever one you happen to be targeting.

Edited February 28, 2013 by OlosBC

[JimmyTheCannon]

I would recommend doing a skim through the tanking role sub-forum to understand taunt mechanics, dps kill order and stat weights (BiS stats with stim look like: 17-19% defence, 58-60% shield chance, 58-60% shield absorb) . Most of the pt tank playstyle is self-evident as its very simple and passive in design, but here's a quick and dirty:

 

 

• 
   
  
• Never start or pull with a taunt
  
• Always keep heat blast on cooldown
  
• Always keep rocket punch on cooldown, always hit it when it procs
  
• Always keep railshot on cooldown
  
• Always keep flamethrower / death from above on cooldown if heat allows
  
• Use flameburst to refresh debuff, and as a filler if all else is on cooldown.
  
• Keep heat below 40, use vent heat after you flood your heat meter, not before
  
• Don't forget to use explosive fuel, pair with flamethrower and death from above for best effect
  
• Only ever use thermal sensor override on flamethrower or death from above, nothing else
  
• Never use grappel as a threat builder
  
• Use oil slick on cooldown for applicable damage types
  
• Kolto overload is not an oh **** button
  
• Use kolto overload to fill in downtime between oil slicks, or save it for force/tech using enemies
  
• Don't use kolto overload at full health
  
• Energy shield is your only *real* defensive cooldown, use it wisely
  
• Don't use unload
  
• Don't use explosive dart in your melee tanking priority (some don't use it at all)
  
• Some weave in flamesweep in the opening volley, consuming flamesurge charges to manage heat
  

 

Couple things.

 

1) Yes, keep Heat Blast on cooldown, but don't use it initially until you've already built up some heat.

2) Why not use Grapple as a threat builder, on single-target boss fights? Honestly curious, I have a Vanguard tank.

[SgtKlavier]

(1) When you Taunt, you need to be a few meters, in game, away from the targets (2-4m NOT more than 4 though), this MULTIPLIES your threat.

 

(2) AFTER YOU TAUNT, you MUST damage the targets you want to keep taunted to you, or DPS will pull them from you.

 

There are two threat thresholds in terms of distance from the target, 110% within ~2m and 130% beyond ~2m, meaning that in order to pull the target's aggro you need to pass 110% or 130% of whatever the current threat leader has depending on your location. As such, a taunt used within four meters will multiply your current level by 1.1, while outside 2 meters by 1.3, so it is to your advantage to taunt when farther from an enemy.

 

Also, you don't necessarily have to keep damaging a target if your threat level is high enough to hold aggro until its hp reaches 0.

 

2) Why not use Grapple as a threat builder, on single-target boss fights? Honestly curious, I have a Vanguard tank.

 

Grapple works well as a threat builder, and is only restricted by a minimum range, so it works perfectly for cases where you have to move away from a boss or get knocked back. I will often use it to open the fight right before leaping.

[Marb]

Couple things.

 

1) Yes, keep Heat Blast on cooldown, but don't use it initially until you've already built up some heat.

2) Why not use Grapple as a threat builder, on single-target boss fights? Honestly curious, I have a Vanguard tank.

 

Grapple doesn't generate enough threat to warrant using it for that purpose. Its not worth using it before your opener, because you should be closing to 4m and putting rocket punch on cooldown immediately ready for a proc, going straight into your highest threat attacks as soon as possible. Holding out for a grapple is like standing there for a rapid shots before using jet charge.

 

And If your stuck out of flame burst range; rail shot, death from above, and explosive dart are infinitely better options. Grapple threat is comparable to a rapid shots proccing ion gas cylinder (about 2.5k threat on average). Its a threat builder on the most basic level, it just generates threat as *if* it did (not much) damage to the target.

 

Use it for what it is, a pull.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Marb

[Eternalnight]

There is some weird stuff in the first response

 

(1) When you Taunt, you need to be a few meters, in game, away from the targets (2-4m NOT more than 4 though), this MULTIPLIES your threat.

 

Like someone else already said, if you taunt within 4m range, you multiply your threat by 1.1, but if you are outside 4m range you multiply your threat by 1.3 so you actually get more from it when you stand at greater than 4m range.

So no, you do not "need" to be within few meters, and in fact it is better to be further.

 

Other than that...shoot for 25+% Defense and 50+% shield/absorption and make sure you keep your gear updated.

And these numbers look like something that is way off, even worse than what you get from Noxxic. These are not even really possible for a PT.

 

While other tank classes can easily get much higher percentages they also start from much higher percentages, for example assassins have 16% defense without any defense rating gear, so even at 30% they only have 14% gained from gear. Powertech however starts from 5% base defense, so to get to 25% on a powertech would need to have 20% gained from defense rating gear, which would be heavily over-stacking defense. Even in full 63 gear, it would probably require every mod and every enhancement in every piece of gear to be ones with highest possible defense rating (meaning that you would have no absorption rating at all). This would be extremely bad for any tank class, but even worse for PT who are the one tank class that most of all should not over-stack defense.

 

Like someone else said, in the best gear currently, Powertechs go for something closer to 17% defense and also a lot more than just 50% shield and 50% absorb

[planet_J]

Umm...the taunt multiplier is from 0-4m...what are you talking about? Inside 4m and outside 2m is where you want to taunt.

 

As for the defensive numbers...all the pt/vg tanks in my guild are around 20-21% defense...and they're doing just fine...my pt is only in the 30s so I am nowhere close to ideal right now...but I trust the information about defense.

 

I understand the shield proc and everything...but having a chance for them to miss when you're not shielding the attacks should not be overlooked...you do realize it helps to avoid dots and effects and not just damage right? Besides crits skip the shield in 2.0 just like they do now...this makes your damage intake extremely spikey if you lean too heavily on the shield.

[Marb]

Umm...the taunt multiplier is from 0-4m...what are you talking about? Inside 4m and outside 2m is where you want to taunt.

 

As for the defensive numbers...all the pt/vg tanks in my guild are around 20-21% defense...and they're doing just fine...my pt is only in the 30s so I am nowhere close to ideal right now...but I trust the information about defense.

 

I understand the shield proc and everything...but having a chance for them to miss when you're not shielding the attacks should not be overlooked...you do realize it helps to avoid dots and effects and not just damage right? Besides crits skip the shield in 2.0 just like they do now...this makes your damage intake extremely spikey if you lean too heavily on the shield.

 

Ideal stats are not based on opinion or observation, they are based on statistical data gathered from ops, and calculated stat weights. Taking defence up to 20% is not significant unless we can know the %'s of their shield and absorb. If they're in min maxed high mitigation 63's, with elite war hero relics, having 20% defence chance with a stim is not unusual. In general though, defence doesn't approach 20% until in full 63 high mitigation gear, if not then they're weighting themselves too much towards defence.

 

Also PvE mobs can't crit. Shield has significantly greater value on pts, as it will shield against all energy / kinetic damage regardless of attack type. This will drive the value of shield through the roof for all tanks.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Marb

[Eternalnight]

Umm...the taunt multiplier is from 0-4m...what are you talking about? Inside 4m and outside 2m is where you want to taunt.

 

No, no and no.

 

Taunts give you as much threat as the percentage needed to overaggro the mobs. This percentage is smaller for melee than it is for ranged as melee will only need to exceed the tank's threat by 10% to pull aggro off him, but ranged who stay at range need 30%, which is why melee are more likely to overaggro

 

If you are within 0-4 m range, taunts will put you to 110% of current highest threat, that is multiply threat by 1.1

If you are at 4-30 m range taunts will put you to 130% of current highest threat, that is multiply it by 1.3

 

Do some testing, and review your combat logs and then come back

 

As for the defensive numbers...all the pt/vg tanks in my guild are around 20-21% defense

Well 20% defense, for a powertech, is at least realistically achievable while still having somewhat decent amount of absorption rating in your gear.

 

However 25% is definitely not.

 

...and they're doing just fine...

This is a very poor measurement of what is optimal

 

I understand the shield proc and everything

Aha

 

but having a chance for them to miss when you're not shielding the attacks should not be overlooked

You do not have "chance for them to miss when you're not shielding".

Defense chance is rolled first before shield roll, which means, you rather have a chance to shield when you did not avoid it with defense. Also means that when you did avoid an attack with defense, you did not even have a shield roll on that attack.

 

Besides crits skip the shield in 2.0 just like they do now...

Which is utterly irrelevant since only players crit.

 

this makes your damage intake extremely spikey if you lean too heavily on the shield.

And it does not since PvE enemies will never crit, and since shielding can happen more often than defense, relying more on shielding makes you less spikey.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Eternalnight