Does sniper have any counter now?

[ChickenEveryday]

Anyways, people jumping to conclusions saying sniper will be the new FoTM, when no pvp matches can be played seriously with people running around with 800k hp and insta killing everything, so by saying they have no counter, how do you know this for sure? PvP is impossible to play, don't just assume sniper will be the new FoTM due to some new roll ability and stealth detection which can nearly be bypassed due to Sneak/Blackout and bonus stealth level's in trees.

 

Regarding the roll, do you know what it's like to have no escape mechanic? (except an 8 seconds aoe mezz which in normal wz's gets broken after 2 seconds anyway, unless you are fighting 1v1, but then you're dots could still break the cc, unless you are lethality and grab the new tree passive that makes our dots not break our cc's.) Also, being the least mobile class in the game is terrible, snipers need this roll to atleast have some chance of escaping combat or catching up to people to stop themselves from being LoSed, marauders can stealth out, same with assassin and operative, jugg's have intercede, (Despite being not as effective as stealth it is still a 30m range leap to possibly a friendly healer.) but as soon as sniper gets an escape mechanic, which is arguably the least effective of these I have listed, people start crying new FoTM?

 

Now also, the cleanse from evasion, this was a key ability for operatives as they would need it to successfully stealth out of combat, but for sniper, we have the choice of saving it for a gore+ravage for example, or now cleansing madness sorcs/assassins dots, or a merc/pt's pyro dots, or even an annihilation marauder's bleeds, but, all of these dots can be reapplied fairly soon after, so yes, the cleanse from evasion helps, but I myself will not use it to cleanse myself of 1 class' dots, unless I am absolutely sure I have to and I will not be facing the burst from a MM sniper or a Carnage marauder.

[MusicRider]

Regarding the roll, do you know what it's like to have no escape mechanic?

Burst, defensive cooldowns, leap immunity, now an escape mechanism also. You can't have it all. In the end of the day the other ranged classes did not really have any serious escape mechanisms, and they never had the same defensive cds and leap immunity that sniper had. The roll is force speed except better as it comes with cc immunity, while a force speed can be stunned. I just cant believe how you cannot see that force speed was unnecessary or you just trolling and want your class to have everything. Well done you got force speed now also.

Edited February 22, 2013 by MusicRider

[PlagaNerezza]

Look at the assassin 19/27 spec with dark charge and the changes to shielding.

 

Add in an EWH relic of shield amplification and an assassin running a shield. Maybe get 1 or two war hero bastion enhancements and swap out a couple overkill augments for redoubt augments.

 

Stats

 

You cast dark ward to add 15% to the shielding not in the spec to give you a 36% shielding chance. You against someone with 97% accuracy a too completely miss 13%. My shield will absorb roughly 24%-40% of incoming damage with the relic triggering for 6 seconds.

 

I would be roughly sacrificing on top end damage about 45 points min main hand damage range. and about 50 points in base force damage.

 

While picking up a ton of damage mitigation. I am looking at the trees wondering how freaking hard true tanks are going to be to drop in pvp if the shield works against force and tech attacks.

[ChickenEveryday]

Burst, defensive cooldowns, leap immunity, now an escape mechanism also. You can't have it all. In the end of the day the other ranged classes did not really have any serious escape mechanisms, and they never had the same defensive cds and leap immunity that sniper had. The roll is force speed except better as it comes with cc immunity, while a force speed can be stunned. I just cant believe how you cannot see that force speed was unnecessary or you just trolling and want your class to have everything. Well done you got force speed now also.

 

Right, shield probe absorbs roughly 2-3k damage for me, so that's half force scream with gore, depending on gear difference, or some dot ticks from a madness sorc or lethality sniper, evasion will only stop white damage, so for some classes it will make no difference going up against them, the ballistic shield is strong as it is +20% damage reduction, but if I am being focused with no healer helping me, it wont let me escape will it? And I can be cc'd while rolling, yes, I cant be immobilized, but a quick electrocute right as I use it will instantly stop it, also, the roll isn't exactly force speed, as I can't aim the roll with such precision as speed, as with speed it can be used to sprint behind corners, where as the roll is just a straight shot.

 

Also, I can't see any stealth classes in your signature, go level one, face a sniper, then see if the sniper's cooldown's help them from the burst of a concealment operative.

[iDraxter]

Regarding the roll, do you know what it's like to have no escape mechanic? .

EVERYONE put ur hands together and give a big clap for this guy, best comedian of the day

[islander]

No matter in what version of the game, the sniper always has been a class dependent on his team to peform well. Give me a marauder that can keep the enemy's attention on himself and i will rack up kills. The class was never overpowered, it's our team mates that help in peforming our job.

 

This.

So much this.

Want to neutralize a sniper? Treat them the same way you should a healer - send two melee to rip them apart. Sure, we have some defenses but ultimately just like a healer, if you're persistent, we're going to die due to no stealth.

Edited February 22, 2013 by islander

[iDraxter]

This.

So much this.

Want to neutralize a sniper? Treat them the same way you should a healer - send two melee to rip them apart. Sure, we have some defenses but ultimately just like a healer, if you're persistent, we're going to die.

ok now visualise the same scenario but u being a merc instead of a sniper then bi@tch pls about what its like to have less to non escape mechanics kthxbye

example #2 PT`s are the only class in-game with 0 escape mechanics(the hold the line/hydraulic override is more then welcomed)

Edited February 22, 2013 by iDraxter

[islander]

ok now visualise the same scenario but u being a merc instead of a sniper then bi@tch pls about what its like to have no escape mechanics kthxbye

example #2 PT`s are the only class in-game with 0 escape mechanics

 

Hey, I am all for mercs getting buffed. Have been all this time.

That said, a smart merc can really utilize LOS in warzones to gradually pick you apart, you know. Ranged and able to use LOS.

 

I don't know how this plays out in 2.0, just talking about live currently.I'm not even bothering with 2.0 until it gets refined a bit more.

[Smashbrother]

I never said i had a problem killing them, im simply indicating what i do when people attempt to LOS me on mine. its really not hard to move to another position especially with the 2.0 roll.

LOS get killed with it and any good sniper will position themselves to minimize the hazards of LOS.

its was a cute try though pretending its a hard counter.

maybe you can come up with something better next time kthx

 

And the moment you move to another position is when some knight leaps you or a VG pulls you and it's GG.

 

Best thing to do when someone LoS you is to switch targets. Moving makes you vulnerable as all hell since it takes away the snipers best weapon against dying (being leapt/pulled to). This will be different when we get the new roll that auto puts us in cover, but for now LoS is a hard counter for snipers.

[MusicRider]

Right, shield probe absorbs roughly 2-3k damage for me

Bubble armor is the same. Maybe absorbs an extra 1k damage. Big deal.

 

the ballistic shield is strong as it is +20% damage reduction,

Sages have no defensive ability to reduce damage. They also wear light armor.

 

but if I am being focused with no healer helping me, it wont let me escape will it?

use your knockback, it sends people miles away than the sages knockback and also auto-roots them, something that a sage has to invest a lot of points to get.

 

And I can be cc'd while rolling, yes, I cant be immobilized, but a quick electrocute right as I use it will instantly stop it, also,

Force speed is also prone to stuns, except that it is also prone to roots too. Your leg shot which is default ability is just as effective.

 

the roll isn't exactly force speed, as I can't aim the roll with such precision as speed, as with speed it can be used to sprint behind corners, where as the roll is just a straight shot.

Big deal. Snipers hardly needed to get out of los, they only need gap.

 

Also, I can't see any stealth classes in your signature, go level one, face a sniper, then see if the sniper's cooldown's help them from the burst of a concealment operative.

Without bubble stun, another big investment of skill points, there is not much difference of a sage or a sniper facing a stealth.

 

I may add sages dont have dodge shield or cc immunity abilities either on everything else mentioned.

 

I suggest you roll a sage cause I don't see one in your signature either.

 

Bottom line. You are just confirming the thread title. Snipers issues were with stealths, let's give them tools to counter that also.

Edited February 22, 2013 by MusicRider

[iDraxter]

funny how only 3 ppl in this thread defend the sniper and guess what? 2 of them have the sniper avatar and the 3rd guy has a Sniper guide link in his sig! same thing on the Phase walk is OP thread(only sins/shadows defending it, hell they even confirm its overkill for the class)

[MusicRider]

This.

So much this.

Want to neutralize a sniper? Treat them the same way you should a healer - send two melee to rip them apart. Sure, we have some defenses but ultimately just like a healer, if you're persistent, we're going to die due to no stealth.

 

Send the same 2 melee against a commando or a sage and let's see. So basically you also want to survive focussing targets by 2 or more? Interesting and given. Anything else? Would you like phase walk also? How about snipe instant while moving?

[Juusto]

Btw, we were just testing sniper/gunslinger in pts now and marksman spec does 2,5k-3k dps constantly without worrying any resource management so you dont think thats a bit overkill? (And we tested it with both people wearing warhero gear) Edited February 22, 2013 by Juusto

[iDraxter]

Right, see if the sniper's cooldown's help them from the burst of a concealment operative.

Wait! Scissors wants to beat Rock now too? Bwhahahah Edited February 22, 2013 by iDraxter

[islander]

Send the same 2 melee against a commando or a sage and let's see. So basically you also want to survive focussing targets by 2 or more? Interesting and given. Anything else? Would you like phase walk also? How about snipe instant while moving?

 

You pretty much need 2 melee to kill a good sage healer. I've got a sorc healer as my second 'main'.

This concept is far from unprecedented.

 

I also dare say all good tank spec players require two people to bring down if you want it done in anything resembling a timely manner. At least that's been my experience - on my sniper. If I take down a tank 'sin or jugg alone in decent time, he either has no CD's avail, is terrible at PvP, or both.

 

I'm just an above average marksman sniper. Nothing more.

Edited February 22, 2013 by islander

[MusicRider]

You pretty much need 2 melee to kill a good sage healer. I've got a sorc healer as my second 'main'.

This concept is far from unprecedented.

 

I also dare say all good tank spec players require two people to bring down if you want it done in anything resembling a timely manner. At least that's been my experience - on my sniper.

 

Dude you are comparing a sniper against a healer. You are already off topic. Compare a sniper against a dps sage/commando.

[islander]

Dude you are comparing a sniper against a healer. You are already off topic. Compare a sniper against a dps sage/commando.

 

Oh, so you're comparing the two most underpowered classes all this time then.

I see. You could make that comparison to, I dunno, every other DPS class in the game, now couldn't you?

[MusicRider]

Oh, so you're comparing the two most underpowered classes all this time then.

I see. You could make that comparison to, I dunno, every other DPS class in the game, now couldn't you?

 

Thank you for just admitting that snipers were totally fine and no change was needed.

[iDraxter]

Oh, so you're comparing the two most underpowered classes all this time then.

I see. You could make that comparison to, I dunno, every other DPS class in the game, now couldn't you?

so u admit the sniper is OP compared to the other 2 ranged dps in-game and they buff ur class even more and its OK glad we took that out of the way

listen pal if u didn`t realise yet why MusicRider said to compare ur sniper to a dps sage/commando was because we are talking about RANGED dps here now back to u

Edited February 22, 2013 by iDraxter

[ChickenEveryday]

Wait! Scissors wants to beat Rock now too? Bwhahahah

 

I never said Sniper should beat Operative, they should never beat them, and 99% of the time, a good operative will always beat a sniper.

[iDraxter]

I never said Sniper should beat Operative, they should never beat them, and 99% of the time, a good operative will always beat a sniper.

a good operative opening will beat lots of classes in a 1v1 away from the zerg fest, having to fear 1 adv class out of 8 doesn`t justify ur complaint

 

Thank you for just admitting that snipers were totally fine and no change was needed.

btw want to know another class that was MORE then fine and no changes we re needed? sins/shadows but that`s for another thread

Edited February 22, 2013 by iDraxter

[ChickenEveryday]

a good operative opening will beat lots of classes in a 1v1 away from the zerg fest, having to fear 1 adv class out of 8 doesn`t justify ur complaint

 

When did I complain about operatives?

[islander]

so u admit the sniper is OP compared to the other 2 ranged dps in-game and they buff ur class even more and its OK glad we took that out of the way

listen pal if u didn`t realise yet why MusicRider said to compare ur sniper to a dps sage/commando was because we are talking about RANGED dps here now back to u

 

Commando and DPS Sage is underpowered right NOW. This is common knowledge, and if you'll look, not something I support. Right in this thread, below:

 

Hey, I am all for mercs getting buffed. Have been all this time.

That said, a smart merc can really utilize LOS in warzones to gradually pick you apart, you know. Ranged and able to use LOS.

 

Here's a question for you. How does "an OP marksman sniper" hit you if he can't LOS you?

 

hit and run kids...hit and run.

[MusicRider]

btw want to know another class that was MORE then fine and no changes we re needed? sins/shadows but that`s for another thread

I agree with you but I hear they get some serious nerfs in the tank and dps department; I don't play the class so I don't know. Tbh phase walk would be an awesome ability for sages, especially for the dps ones. Force barrier would be better for shadows and make the coooldown even longer.

[iDraxter]

When did I complain about operatives?

Here->

see if the sniper's cooldown's help them from the burst of a concealment operative.

Edited February 22, 2013 by iDraxter