Vengeance Jugg lacking...

[WaldoA]

So I've been playing Marauder recently and I understand that they are full DPS class and obviously should be doing more damage then Juggs, what I don't get though.. is why do Juggernauts get like no abilitys that aren't on GCD. Basically after every hit you need to wait for GCD to finish before using ability ability when other classes get plenty of abilitys that can be chained together. I really like my Juggernaut for the simple reason that using Impale/Shatter + jumping at the same time looks mad, just feels like im performing really bad with slow damage though. Any tips? :X

[Elyxin]

if you are having to wait to use abilities on your jugg, then you are either A: not 50 yet, or B: not using or aware of all your skills, or C: using Rage. Jugg's DO mature later then Mara's...shatter isn't until 40, and throw isn't until late 40's. but as vengeance I can maintain an almost solid rotation with no waiting with:

 

sunder

impale

smash

scream

shatter

ravage

 

and thats it. not in that order BTW, and there's allot of optimizing with those, but thts all i need to never be stuck with a CD at all. unlucky RNG can net an occasional few seconds, but those can easily be filled with saber throw, interceded (with the leap back) Force choke (if your using it beneficially...it doen't maximized DPS, but its fun) and an occasional taunt.

 

If your Rage, then welcome to the Lolsmash builld (hope you didn't come over here just for that). Rage was DESIGNED to have open spots in it. you only have a few abilities that build up your smash proc. But it's an advantage, especially in PvP...the extra time allows your for more movement, more opportunities for using control/CC/whatever...so Rage is set up that way, Veng shouldn't have it at all (unless you are doing it on purpose...)

 

In all honesty, I find my mara less interesting to play then my jugg's.

[OlosBC]

Rage does not have "open slots" where you do nothing. There's always attacks to do, rarely if ever using strike(I've only ever had to use strike in long pve execute phases). And in PvP I think I've only ever used it to finis off someone who was at ~100 HP.

[jasonthelamb]

Vengeance Jugg Rotation:

1) Leap (if needed)

2) Sunder armor

3) Ravage

5) Impale

6) Scream

7a) IF Ravage is on CD

- Sunder

- Impale

7b) IF Ravage is ready

- Ravage

-Sunder

- Impale

8) Saber Throw & Smash

9) Whatever the second attack is (2 rage spend from Veng tree)

10) Repeat until 30, add vicious throw in after impales / shatters for auto crits.

 

If I'm forgetting anything, please tell me... I've got a pounding headache and can't think straight.

[planet_J]

That's about right...

 

I'd like to mention free force scream after leap is AWESOME!!!

 

Your damage log should look something like this in order of most damage to least:

 

1. Ravage

2. Bleeds

3. Force Scream

4. Impale

5. Shatter

6. Smash

[Griad]

Our best vengence jugg in the guild had a ravage crit on kephess in TFB for 20k a tick lol i think that is awesome 60k damage in 3 seconds

[Luckeyduckey]

Wondering if Obliterate is better than Shatter in a PvP purpose. Was thinking this

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MZsMrRMuddhZGR0Mz.2

 

Any thoughts?

 

I know Shatter is a Force Attack, and it also has a chance to proc Ravage, but it feels lacking. The DoTs take too long to throw the damage out, and it hits like a wet noodle for the amount of Rage it costs. Obliterate also has a root + 10m range.

[Greeve]

Wondering if Obliterate is better than Shatter in a PvP purpose. Was thinking this

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MZsMrRMuddhZGR0Mz.2

 

Any thoughts?

 

I know Shatter is a Force Attack, and it also has a chance to proc Ravage, but it feels lacking. The DoTs take too long to throw the damage out, and it hits like a wet noodle for the amount of Rage it costs. Obliterate also has a root + 10m range.

 

The more ravages you can do in pvp the better. So two ways to proc ravage is better than one. Obliterate has no chemistry with the build.

[Carousel_t]

The more ravages you can do in pvp the better. So two ways to proc ravage is better than one. Obliterate has no chemistry with the build.

 

Why not?

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MzZfGMoMudzMZGr0dz.2

 

Force charge (3) > [opt:] ravage (0) > sundering assault (2) > impale (-3) > force scream (0) > sundering assault (2) > assault (2) > obliterate (-2) > impale (-3) > force scream (0) > sundering assault (2) > [if target health<30%] vicious throw (2) / [if target's health>30% & target is stationary] ravage (0) / [if target's health>30% & target moves] force push (0) > repeat rotation.

 

ps. im affraid ravage is overrated in pvp. you will NOT get a chance to get full 3 ticks in before someone's going to interrupt it (stun you) or run away/ get in stealth. id stick with instant attacks. ive also found DoTs useless, that's why there's none in that build - reason why most maras play carnage over annihilation.

 

who is this spec for - dps juggs going after healers. it contains few bursts making it harder for healers to heal themselves. also, few small bursts make it hard to anticipate when the next big hitter is coming - which is a good thing especially with sages. and this i probably the only advantage over smashers.

 

my advice - if at any point anyone stuns you, wait just 1 or 2 sec and use unleash. don't wait full stun duration. just unleash > force push > force charge at them (and you're immune again). at this point most people will throw their ccs at you anyway.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Carousel_t

[WaldoA]

I didn't mean I have to wait on cooldowns, what I meant is.. like Marauder gets skills that aren't on GCD so you can chain 2 in quick sucession, whereas Juggernauts abilitys are like all on GCD so you use one, need to wait the small GCD then use another, obviously you're still pressing abilitys but the attacks just feel clunky and slow. I've played every class by 30 and have several 50s, Juggernaut just feels alot slower to DPS that's all :S

[planet_J]

Hmm...you should be able to ravage off gcd when it procs...if I recall correctly...I may be wrong but I will look at it.

[Elyxin]

I didn't mean I have to wait on cooldowns, what I meant is.. like Marauder gets skills that aren't on GCD so you can chain 2 in quick succession, whereas Juggernauts abilities are like all on GCD so you use one, need to wait the small GCD then use another, obviously you're still pressing abilities but the attacks just feel clunky and slow. I've played every class by 30 and have several 50s, Juggernaut just feels allot slower to DPS that's all :S

 

This is actually a realistic observation OP. It can feel clunky initially. when I first tried the class (as a guard actually), i gave up at lvl 14...it had no "flow" in my mind at all. it was my first toon, so i started a jedi consular as a comparison. got him up to the mid 40's, and decided to try the guard again. pushed him to early 20's, was feeling better in less clunky, but I didn't enjoy the animations, so I tried jugg instead. got hooked on the animations, and pushed through the "clunky feel". once i was in my 40's, it started to feel much smoother to me.

 

It's a very distinct skill approach...I find that you either like it or don't like it. I pushed past the initial clumsy feel and really got into the class...and it started to smooth out. got 3 of em now! I guess the moral of my story is...it can feel clunky, and it is something you need to decide if it's worth pushing past to get used to. I did, cause I love how the class feels in all other ways...and now it doesn't feel clunky at all.

 

But the class may not be for you..it's distinctly possible that you just aren't getting anything from the class, so you may not have the motivation to push past that barrier. that's happened to me with my agent...I've started and stopped her many times. she's crawled from lvl 1 to lvl 36 over a years time (started her early Jan last year) I know people love the class, but the playstyle doesn't appeal to me, so I don't put allot of energy into mastering it...and she feels clunky to me (though i know many that love the class).

 

so if your not liking it, and you can't get past that barrier...it's not a horrible thing. put the toon in the closet, let them be a craft hoar/bank alt, and perhaps sometime in the future you will pick the jugg back up again....or let them collect dust

 

Edit: Just as an FYI, they do put out excellent DPS. they just don't do it fast and whizzy like a Mara. When i play my mara, the picture i get is of darting cobras. when i play my jugg, the image i get is a mack truck. heavy, slow hits. mara is fast and rapid. these are just personal images, of course but just wanted to emphasize that they both put out good damage, just in different ways

Edited February 19, 2013 by Elyxin

[Drazhar]

Opener

 

Saber throw > Charge > Sundering Assault > Ravage

 

Then rotate between the following 2 sets.

 

1. Sundering Assault > Shatter > Filler

 

2. Sundering Assault > Impale > Filler

 

Filler priority

Vicious Throw > Ravage > Force Scream > Saber Throw > Smash > Force Charge > Assault

 

Never Force Scream or Vicious Throw unless its preceded by Impale or Shatter so Savagery has proc'd.

 

To be quiet honest, I haven't had to use Assault in the last few months of raiding. You just need to time use of Enrage to max it out. You can flip where Impale and Shatter is on the system, but I find its nice to get the Shatter DoT rolling and gives your tank a couple of extra seconds to build threat