Defensive Cooldown for Sorcerer/Sage

[Xerain]

Exactly what the thread is about, survivablilty. As a sorc i take 100k more damage than everyone else. If i'm standing next to another smash jugg on my team with 10k health left, and i have 20k health left, every smasher and sniper on the other team would focus me because they want big hits instead of taking out targets.

 

All I can say about this post is BADS GONNA BAD.

[SEANeD]

And for the millionth time top damage means nothing, effective/pressure/finishing call it what you want, is what matters. Also if you are topping the charts with smashers in the team then you have some very bad smashers and even then compare your damage to them. I'm still looking for the burst you are mentioning... I know a rotation but needs a few gcd and many stars to align... I am waiting for your concept of "burst".

 

and for the millionth time i have come to the conclusion that you want Bioware to make a sniper with force lightning instead of a sorcerer. Its almost like me saying on this thread that i want sorcerers to have a knife, stealth, two heals and a blaster rifle. There is already a class for that, why ruin it for sorcs that are good and wouldn't mind a bit more survivability.

Edited January 25, 2013 by SEANeD

[PloGreen]

All I can say about this post is BADS GONNA BAD.

 

Kids will be kids in your case.

[Xerain]

Kids will be kids in your case.

 

What are you going on about? Says the baddie sorc crying for buffs.

[PloGreen]

What are you going on about? Says the baddie sorc crying for buffs.

 

Thanks for proving my point, child.

[SEANeD]

Thanks for proving my point, child.

 

Sorcs and marauders never get along

[MusicRider]

burst is 4 tics offorce lightning criting for over 1200 a tic in 2.8 seconds. If a death field and dots were applied before that, and some of those dots criting, than that is burst. Damage is not the problem. The problem is we're getting focused over anyone else by a lot because we wear light armor. I don't care if they nerf smash or give me defensive cooldowns i'll still make this class work. There are sorcs that have few problems playing this class, and its the same sorcs that got their stats right and knew their roles. The thread is Defensive Cooldowns. If you believe that sorcs should have burst, be op, and have awesome dots, than go ahead and ruin this class for me. Their is already a ranged class that smashers can't jump to and have a lot of burst. that class is sniper. While you guys play that myself and the other sorcs will be doing just fine without your definition of burst.

 

None is trying to ruin the class for you only mate. The changes I have suggested just increase slightly the burst by not a massive amount to make it OP. Also can you please tell me the joint prob of these rotation you mentioned? Still this is not your best burst rotation. Assuming you have mind proc a 4k project (crit + proc) - 4.5k fib (crit) - mind crush (crit) 2.5 can give you 11k single target damage in 2 gcds. The joint probability for this to happen is assuming a 0.35 crit rate:

0.45*0.35^3 ~= 0.02, ie 2% to happen.

 

The only 5k (an increase of 1000 damage more or less) hit I mentioned on my suggestions is project (crit + proc). As it currently stands with 0.35 crit to hit a crit+proc the probability is:

0.45*0.35 ~= 0.16 or 16% of times.

 

What will ruin the class is increasing the survivability with defensive cooldowns. It is supposed the class that takes the most damage. So if you want defensive cooldowns you are the one ruining the class by altering its fundamental properties, ie "glass cannon".

Edited January 25, 2013 by MusicRider

[Xerain]

Thanks for proving my point, child.

 

I'm the child yet you're the one who started throwing around insults for no reason. LOLK.

[PloGreen]

I'm the child yet you're the one who started throwing around insults for no reason. LOLK.

 

You only have to read back through this thread and look at your replies. Not hard to come to that conclusion.

 

But do carry on you are good at being an idiot.

[SEANeD]

What will ruin the class is increasing the survivability with defensive cooldowns. It is supposed the class that takes the most damage. So if you want defensive cooldowns you are the one ruining the class by altering its fundamental properties, ie "glass cannon".

 

i thought tanks were supposed to take the most damage.

[SEANeD]

.

What will ruin the class is increasing the survivability with defensive cooldowns. It is supposed the class that takes the most damage. So if you want defensive cooldowns you are the one ruining the class by altering its fundamental properties, ie "glass cannon".

 

i thought tanks were supposed to take the most damage.

[MusicRider]

What will ruin the class is increasing the survivability with defensive cooldowns. It is supposed the class that takes the most damage. So if you want defensive cooldowns you are the one ruining the class by altering its fundamental properties, ie "glass cannon".

 

i thought tanks were supposed to take the most damage.

 

Making go down the quickest when it takes damage? Has the least damage reduction? Does this clarify it enough for you. I can't make it simpler than that. We need an interpreter if you still dont get it.

[MusicRider]

And the fact that you leave unanswered the first part which was the most important I take it you agree with it.

[Yeochins]

What will ruin the class is increasing the survivability with defensive cooldowns. It is supposed the class that takes the most damage. So if you want defensive cooldowns you are the one ruining the class by altering its fundamental properties, ie "glass cannon".

 

It's glass, no cannon.

 

If you want to play a cannon,go play Carnage/Rage Marauder, Pyrotech Powertech, and Rage Juggernaught.

[L-RANDLE]

Coming from a launch Sage to a Guardian alt(along with a few other low level classes), I can say that it makes no sense to give Sage/Sorc a DFCD because the AC gets heals to act as a DFCD, whether you are talking bubble or self heals..

 

 

but..... The main problem is the skill trees.

 

There is too much force management and kiting/survival tools in the middle tree and not enough in the right tree.

Then the right tree has some "burst", but not enough to make it viable versus losing the kiting tools in the middle..

 

The only way to solve this is to give Sage/Sorc:

1. A meaningful, stackable damage burst modifier, based off of DoT damage, low in the middle tree.

 

2. More Force Management, a 5 sec root attached to Lift/WW on early break instead of stun, and stronger returns on HP from TKT/FL & FiB/DF.... Like 5-10% (The whole point of a "Balance" tree is to blend DPS with DECENT heal procs, since you are a kiter/DoT spec; passive healing would make the class WAY better).

Edited January 25, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[MusicRider]

It's glass, no cannon.

 

If you want to play a cannon,go play Carnage/Rage Marauder, Pyrotech Powertech, and Rage Juggernaught.

And exactly for this only a handful of dps sages/sorcs might be preferred over the classes you mentioned.

[MusicRider]

Coming from a launch Sage to a Guardian alt(along with a few other low level classes), I can say that it makes no sense to give Sage/Sorc a DFCD because the AC gets heals to act as a DFCD, whether you are talking bubble or self heals..

 

 

but..... The main problem is the skill trees.

 

There is too much force management and kiting/survival tools in the middle tree and not enough in the right tree.

Then the right tree has some "burst", but not enough to make it viable versus losing the kiting tools in the middle..

 

The only way to solve this is to give Sage/Sorc:

1. A meaningful, stackable damage burst modifier, based off of DoT damage, low in the middle tree.

 

2. More Force Management, a 5 sec root attached to Lift/WW on early break instead of stun, and stronger returns on HP from TKT/FL & FiB/DF.... Like 5-10% (The whole point of a "Balance" tree is to blend DPS with DECENT heal procs, since you are a kiter/DoT spec; passive healing would make the class WAY better).

 

Well self-heals as currently they are, are of not much use. I was thinking like your point 1 more lately. Sages will always be preferred targets fit big hits or more seriously cause they are the fastest to take down on a coordinated attack, with a conditional damage modifier it gives them a good reason to be attacked, if they stay on the field they become more threatening.

[wwkingms]

Cause you're bad it's my fault you don't know how to use your abilities for excape. I've seen many other sorc/sages do the things i've mentioned and call for help.

 

from what I've surmised from your posts is that you my friend, know more about every other class than the people who play them, and are probably the best pvper in swtor

 

regale me again with the plight of the marauder against the OP sorcs

[Xerain]

from what I've surmised from your posts is that you my friend, know more about every other class than the people who play them, and are probably the best pvper in swtor

 

regale me again with the plight of the marauder against the OP sorcs

 

Sorcs are OP'ed? Why do you want buffs then?

[-IceHawk-]

Sorcs are OP'ed? Why do you want buffs then?

 

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman.

 

The method of your argumentation and the consistency and coherent coordination of your logial points puts all of the rest of us to shame.

 

I salute you and heartily await your publication of a new PVP-DPS Compendium in the Sorc forums.

[Monterone]

Class is absolutely not a garbage, maybe needs little survivability buff to be more common in rwzs. Not one from original post though, it's probably too much.

 

This class has great potential and giving it survivability on par with maras would bring us a new FoTM. I don't want this ever happen.

 

Thanks for your feedback, what kind of a cooldown do you think would be balanced?

 

I did not think 6 seconds of 25% DR was much, 12 seconds every minute and a half with a Recklessness reset. Yes, there is also a small heal along with that, but in a dps spec it wouldn't even crit heal for as much as a single attack from another class.

[Xerain]

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman.

 

The method of your argumentation and the consistency and coherent coordination of your logial points puts all of the rest of us to shame.

 

I salute you and heartily await your publication of a new PVP-DPS Compendium in the Sorc forums.

 

Why thank you sir, If I do say so myself I would be obliged if you would have a cigar and brandy with me while we discuss class vs class politics in a pointless 1v1 situation.

[L-RANDLE]

Well self-heals as currently they are, are of not much use.

 

And for a "healer AC", spec'd DPS that's a problem. I could live with being low on the DPS totem pole if the passive heals were stronger.. I mean they are not significantly better than any other passive healing specs.

 

Crit DoTs(2% Max) and FiB/DF(2% Max)... That's it... And on top of that, besides the low tier garbage DR, the right tree has it's best DR for DoTs, so you only counter the mirror.

 

 

Instead of a DFCD, the DPS specs need more/better passive/proc healing, especially for the DoT/Kiters..

Edited January 25, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Monterone]

The only way to solve this is to give Sage/Sorc:

1. A meaningful, stackable damage burst modifier, based off of DoT damage, low in the middle tree.

 

2. More Force Management, a 5 sec root attached to Lift/WW on early break instead of stun, and stronger returns on HP from TKT/FL & FiB/DF.... Like 5-10% (The whole point of a "Balance" tree is to blend DPS with DECENT heal procs, since you are a kiter/DoT spec; passive healing would make the class WAY better).

 

Actually, I really like the root idea on WW, it would not instant fill a resolve bar any more and the root would be more helpful.

 

I had an idea on force management also, but didn't want to throw it in this thread... but here goes.

 

Force Lightning being the only way to force regen may be fine for PvE where you can stand and channel to your heart's delight in most situations, but a sorc is always mobile in PvP. Personally I would change the entire force regen mechanic and have it go off of DoT crits instead of FL ticks (and this would work great for PvP, the more targets you are engaging and attacking the better force management you have), but this solution is easier to implement:

 

Every time the Trauma debuff is up, meaning the player is in PvP combat, FL ticks increase force by double -- 2% instead of 1%.

 

This way it does not mess with PvE force management and raid metrics, but allows for a more mobile style of play for PvP madness sorcs.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Monterone

[MusicRider]

Crit DoTs(2% Max) and FiB/DF(2% Max)... That's it... And on top of that, besides the low tier garbage DR, the right tree has it's best DR for DoTs, so you only counter the mirror.

Well the periodic reduction does help against other classes also, watchman sents/dot spec snipers/vanguards have some burn effects I think. Of course you can cleanse some of them.

 

Instead of a DFCD, the DPS specs need more/better passive/proc healing, especially for the DoT/Kiters..

Certainly no dfcd is needed. Caution would be advised for increasing the auto self-heals as a difference of a couple percentages can make a useless ability to an overpowered one.