Sniper set bonus question.

[DarthDaily]

I keep seeing people say that the pvp set bonus is better than the pve. What is the best way to get the pvp set bonus and still be able to customize my look? I want the pvp set bonus for pve.

[Nellsterzzz]

I keep seeing people say that the pvp set bonus is better than the pve. What is the best way to get the pvp set bonus and still be able to customize my look? I want the pvp set bonus for pve.

IMO i never saw the benefit of the additional orbital strike tick (2 pvp set bonus). I always have used the pve 4 set. Using orbital strike constantly (which you should be doing if you're using the pvp set bonus), drains your energy and throws off your management of energy. PLUS you can't effeciently use the pvp set bonus anymore in pve because battlemaster is no longer available, and therefor would have to use a war hero armoring to get the set bonus. I personally think its to big of a loss to use the pvp set bonus.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Nellsterzzz

[Synavix]

Mathematically speaking, the PvP 2 set bonus will give you somewhere in the ballbark of a 20-50 DPS single target increase over the PvE 4 piece, as well as a little more "utility" in terms of AoE'ing adds. The extra tick/duration is a clear winner on a fight like The Writhing Horror where you are simply getting more hits on multiple adds for more DPS, but even on a fight like Karagga (where the adds die in one or two hits) or Gharj the extra duration gives you a little more "wiggle room" when trying to time your cast to hit as many adds as possible, or any at all (in the case of a delayed boss ability). The downside is that often the extra tick can be wasted on a boss where there is a lot of movement or the extra tick could get you into some trouble if you have really bad timing on a fight with reflects or shields. If you're interested in the math of it, search for any number of posts on these forums Tibbel has made on the matter, or read here (http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-326-post-13221.html#pid13221) for one a bit more specific to ungeared MM spec.

 

To answer the original question, the old Centurion or Battlemaster PvP pieces were the way to get it, since you had the set bonus attached to the shell piece and all of the armorings and mods could be replaced with PvE pieces. If you have two of these stashed in your bank somewhere, you can still do that. The pieces aren't available for purchase in that form anymore though, and it's *probably* not worth giving up stats to use an EWH armoring just for the set bonus, so any new Snipers will probably have/want to stick with just the PvE bonuses. Hopefully they implement some sort of fix to this discrepancy with the expansion or future patches.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Synavix

[tweekbrand]

The PVE 4 set bonus is pretty much useless.

Energy reduction on an ability with a 12 sec CD that we can only use at less than 30%.

 

I guess it doesn't matter if you don't have Centurion, Champion, or BM gear anyway.

Still sucks that our 4pc sucks so bad.

[NoTomorrow]

the 2 pcs PvE set sucks as well, 10 energy once per 2 min? really?

[paowee]

Oh trust me that energy comes in really handy :-)

[Tibbel]

Oh trust me that energy comes in really handy :-)

 

But how handy is the question.

To find out, follow Tibbel's Simple Guide to Determining How Handy That Energy Is:

 

 

1. Which ability is the best one that you can't use on cooldown because of energy?: _________ ____
   
2. How much energy does that ability cost?: ___ Let's call that E.
   
3. How much damage does that ability do on average (accounting for both crits and non-crits)?: ___ Call this D.
   
4. Take the 10 energy from the set bonus and divide it by E: ___ We'll call this N. This is how many uses of that ability you'll get for 'free' each time you use Target Acquired with the set bonus.
   
5. Multiply D by N to find how much damage you gain per use of Target Acquired: ___
   
6. Divide this by TA's 120-second cooldown to determine the DPS gained: ___ DPS
   
7. Note how low this number is.
   
8. Weep.
   
9. Pull self together.
   
10. Recall that the 4pc PvP set bonus doesn't add any damage at all, so you'll be getting the 2pc PvE bonus anyway (in PvE), and therefore there's probably not a whole lot of thought that needs to go into it.
    
11. Shrug.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Tibbel

[NoTomorrow]

You are the king of math

[Svii]

Tibbel is, ofc, correct. There is no substitute for the 2-set Field Tech bonus and it does come in handy every now and then to keep you in the 60+ energy bracket. I even find myself missing it in PvP :/ .. Then I remember 40m Takedown! Edited January 22, 2013 by Svii

[Kelderek]

Having the 2pc PVE bonus for that extra energy has helped me to actually remember to use the TA skill more often. Previously I always managed to forget about it which is bad since it is nice for the armor penetration.

 

I find it handy usually when I use Orbital Strike since that is the costliest ability I use and it tends to put me below 60%.

[Synavix]

I found both the PvE set bonuses particularly helpful early on. It didn't just mean I was spending less energy (and could use it for small dps increases), but meant that when I inevitably messed up my energy rotation I had more leeway before *really* messing anything up.

 

Now that I'm more seasoned....eh, I wouldn't mind losing either. I hope that they implement either new set bonuses or offer new players/characters a way to use (what is currently) PvP set bonuses for PvE as well. Their choices for set bonuses for most classes could use some reworking, I think. They've learned quite a bit and reworked a lot of classes since launch.

[adezero]

I always found the pvp 2set useless for raiding, and I refused to ever wear it.

 

You aren't going to be using orbital strike every time it's up. It's just not practical, you need to save it sometimes, there's no point on using it on a boss that moves around a lot.

Most adds will be dead by the 3rd tick anyway.

 

I really cannot understand why anyone took it in the first place. It's only really good for hitting the target dummy because the pve 4set doesn't work on the dummy.

[paowee]

You aren't going to be using orbital strike every time it's up.

You should. Well for some bosses. Like in HM TFB, ~Operator IX, and last boss. 2/5 of the bosses in there. You are right in saving Orbital though and this is good for Writhing Horror on adds and for Kephes the Undying for the burn phases. Council is the fight where it's hard to utilize OS the most. The 4pc will come in handy here especially since you have 3 targets to bring down

 

In HM/NiM EC, use it everytime its up for T&Z (without getting fearful!), and on the Tanks. For Col Vorgath a good time to use Orbital is when you here him say "Reinforcements Deploy!" This is when the silver adds spawn. Your Orbital should make quick work of those AND it is going to be hitting the big probe as well. For Kephess if you begin the fight with Orbital strike on the droids it ~will be available just in time for the 1st burn phase / trandoshan adds phase

 

Most adds will be dead by the 3rd tick anyway.

This mostly depends on your raid group/comp. NiM Kephes, those 4 ticks will help. HM TFB Writhing Horror depends again on your raid comp and if you are able to pre-cast it. At the moment imo, which set-bonus to use comes down to personal preference more than anything tbh. Edited January 23, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

I really cannot understand why anyone took it in the first place. It's only really good for hitting the target dummy because the pve 4set doesn't work on the dummy.

 

Back when HM EC came out, (full rakata! lol) that extra tick was helpful for both the walker burn phases and the trenchutters. I have a video where it takes all 4 orbital ticks to completely down the trenchutters.... Now i'll be lucky to even see the trenchutters survive after 2 ticks... (Carnage marauders and pyro powertechs... le sigh>_>)

 

I really liked having the 2pc it for vorgath as well. That extra tick is good for the adds and sometimes I drop OS in between the probe and the inoming assassin droids. For T&Z i just got into a habit of timing orbital so that it starts ticking when Toth jumps to Zorn (and then i drop a Corrosive Grenade so that it hits both of them too). At most 2 ticks of Orbital will hit both Toth and Zorn, and the other 2 will hit just Zorn.

 

Fastforward to today... well now I just gotten used to having the 2 pc pvp and never bothered to replace it. (i have the BM shell not the WH armorings).

Edited January 23, 2013 by paowee

[adezero]

well, you should be using orbital on the walker, not the trenchcutters. the raid needs that walker down, the trenchcutters just melt anyway. and even if you do use orbital on the trenchcutters, you'll most likely pull aggro and die (this has happened MANY times in my raid, NiM kephess [the other gunslinger, not me])

[Synavix]

I guess a lot of it comes down to preference and playstyle, but I find the 2 set PvP to be pretty superior to what I'd be having with the 4 set PvE. The PvP bonus isn't a huge impact on every fight, but on the ones that it does make a difference...the difference is noticeable.The 4 set PvE just isn't at almost any point. There are always going to be a few exceptions, but a lot of the fights where the energy reduction will help the most (fights with high HP adds throughout the fight where you can use Takedown repeatedly) I find myself capping on energy during the lulls (such as TfB frogger) anyway, making the energy I saved during the last one or two Takedowns moot.

 

The only time I find that the 2 set PvP isn't really worth it is once your group overgears and overskills the encounters significantly, which makes the argument irrelevant anyway. I guess a lot comes down to your group comp and strat as well.

 

As far as specific fights, I find a lot of boss mechanics line up pretty nicely with the CD on OS. Assuming, again, that you don't grossly overgear it. T&Z has just over a 5 minute enrage timer, and even with overgeared DPS you probably won't shave off more than 30 seconds or so (because of the tank fearful and jump mechanics), so you can easily fit in 4 OS's even if you delay one or two to wait for a jump. The bosses never really move on that fight (unless your tanks are doing something weird), so that's easily an extra 4-8 ticks per fight depending on whether the last one was timed while the bosses were together, versus maybe one extra Explosive Probe near the end of the fight with the 4 set PvE.

 

Similar argument for Nightmare FB & SC. Assuming your group is appropriately skilled/geared for the fight and you're pushing one of the tanks just quickly enough to beat the second DD each phase, every "round" should be almost exactly 1 minute each (correct me if I'm wrong here, but this has been my experience with a few different groups, with the exceptions of ones who were not challenged by the enrage at all). The bosses don't move here again, so depending on how long your final phase lasts (depending on your strat) that's either 5 or 6 extra ticks, versus probably 2 extra Explosive Probes or Snipes. A bit more gray as to which is better, but considering the ease of using OS on this particular boss, I'd favor the PvP again.

 

B'oard already talked about Minefield. It's relatively easy to OS almost on CD and catch extra ticks on the reinforcements, while still having the OS placed on top of the boss droids, meaning even if the adds do die quickly there are no wasted ticks. Depending on your groups particular DPS level though, I could see a pretty solid argument for the PvE 4 set.

 

As far as Nightmare Kephess, I'm curious what strat and group comp you are running with where the Trenchcutter adds are just "melting" without excessive AoEs. I would agree that OS is better used for the walker on SM or HM, but the few different groups I've run Nightmare with always prefer OS spaced out on different Trenchcutter groups, since the Walker will die anyway if your DPS is high enough to beat the enrage, whereas a slow kill on any one of the Trenchcutter groups will easily mean a wipe...and unless you're overstacking AoE's on the same group, you should easily get a 4th tick there on a couple low health adds that weren't getting focused. Having to be careful of aggro is a pretty solid point, but would again depend on your group comp. A solid shadow or assassin tank will easily hold aggro on the group long enough as long as you use your aggro dump (which you should always do in add phases), and other tanks should be able to keep most as long as they save proper cooldowns for it and you're careful of which targets you pick target for single target fillers.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Synavix

[paowee]

well, you should be using orbital on the walker, not the trenchcutters. the raid needs that walker down, the trenchcutters just melt anyway. and even if you do use orbital on the trenchcutters, you'll most likely pull aggro and die (this has happened MANY times in my raid, NiM kephess [the other gunslinger, not me])

 

our group can burn through the walker just fine without me needing to orbital. we have the operative use his 3 ticking orbital on the walker, and my 4 ticks of orbital for 1 round of the trenchutters. but yeah.. it depends on your raid comp / personal preference / what strategy your raid leader want to use.

Edited January 24, 2013 by paowee