How big is a planet with no class missions?

[Draloch]

I'm not really hearing people demand story content. Reasonable people know that's a big undertaking. Eventually I want an act 4 for all my characters. I was honestly expecting that to come in the 2-3 year point and to be the first expansion.

 

When I think of how long it takes me to knock out an act 3 planet, I don't really get very excited about Makeb. I can sit down on a Saturday morning and be done with it in the evening. Right now that's all they've given us to talk about, but based just on that, I think it would have been a smarter idea to hold off on hyping it til it was closer to being ready. The charging for it, calling it an expansion, and tying a content gating level increase to it isn't something I can stomach as a consumer of the product.

[Jimsam]

It's not an expansion...

 

Not all expansions include a level cap raise, but MOST expansions do and MMO players generally relate a level cap raise with an expansion.

 

EA Suits: "Ok Bioware, how do we try to justify this as an expansion so we can charge for it?"

 

Bioware Devs: "Add new abilities to classes and raise the level cap"

 

EA Suits: "Good idea, so raise the level cap so we can charge for this content pack...err expansion I mean."

 

Bioware Devs: "The problem is that we don't have enough new content to justify a level cap increase - just a new planet and some story missions."

 

EA Suits: "Find a way to justify calling this an expansion, we need to charge for it."

 

Bioware Devs: "I guess we can just scale some of the old content so that it is still relevant at the new level cap."

 

EA Suits: "Whatever, just get it done."

 

Bioware Devs: "So how much are you charging for this "expansion?"

 

EA Suits: "$20 for F2P, $10 for Subs"

 

Bioware Devs: "Oh nice, so subs will just be able to use their monthly cartel coins to purchase the "expansion."

 

EA Suits: "(laughs), I like you. Also, no."

 

I like how you used quotation marks, because this is no doubt exactly how this all went down .

[Glorthox]

Do you want me to list everything that goes into making at least 8 NEW Class Chapters (1 per Class)? Cause I can if you want me to.

 

It would called an expansion then lmfao. And not a content patch lmfao. Like we need more dailies. FP's, WZ's, and opt's I'm all for. But no class story is the let down, how can something be called an expansion when there isn't no continuation with class story? That's what made this game above any other and they are ignoring it. So to me and many others its a content patch and nothing more.

[AndasKastor]

But no class story expansions and no extra companion story. So in essence it is just a content patch, whereas other mmo expansions continue their story regardless of if they bring out a new area or not. If this one planet would have brought with it more class story and companion story then it would be considered a expansion and not a content patch.

 

In other MMOs they extend the general story of the world. They seldom have class specific story arcs. Usually 'epic weapons' being hte exception. I would assume as they keep releasing operations and such the overall story will keep expanding.

 

*Only caveat I have here is that I do not participate in the end game content so I have no idea whether it has been cohesive or not.

[Draloch]

I like how you used quotation marks, because this is no doubt exactly how this all went down .

 

That guy is probably in danger of getting fired from his job. I'm sure they had him sign an NDA that covers leaking those conversations.

[Altyrell]

It would called an expansion then lmfao. And not a content patch lmfao. Like we need more dailies. FP's, WZ's, and opt's I'm all for. But no class story is the let down, how can something be called an expansion when there isn't no continuation with class story? That's what made this game above any other and they are ignoring it. So to me and many others its a content patch and nothing more.

 

Ok, I guess I will have to list everything:

 

They have to write the Script x8 (1 per Class)

They have to get all of the Voice Actors & Actresses into the Studio to record the Script for the Chapter 4(+) for each Class

They have to Motion Capture and design the Facial Expressions for every NPC, Companion, Player involved

They have to determine the Rewards for each Class Quest

They have to determine how long Chapter 4 will be

They have to determine how many Worlds each Chapter 4 may or may not cover

Among many other things.

[SharpG]

People play at different speed, so it might take you less then a day to go through each world, while others it might take them longer as they want to make sure they've gotten everything, done everything, seen everything on the World before moving onto the next one, while also taking time to level up Alts and whatnot. Also, other MMO's Expansions have included the equivalent of 1 World, whether it be a new Continent, expansion of the world, etc.

 

Just want to correct you on one thing and then I'll disappear

 

One new planet in SWTOR is the equivalent of one new zone in other MMOs. A large slew of planets (Lots of zones) would be the equivalent of a new continent. Continents in other games often times double the size of the game world in other MMOs.

[Arkerus]

Let's look at Hoth (one of the big planets). I'm giving numbers for republic. You can just double every number if you want a comprehensive look at the entire planet for both factions.

 

Hoth has 5 questing zones (I'm including the bonus area). It has a total of 41 missions. I'm lumping the main planet story chain, solo missions at each quest hub, and heroic quests. So basically everything, except class quests. I also did not calculate bonus missions. There are several.

 

It has 4 class missions for each class, for a total of 16.

 

At face value, the class missions are 28% of the missions on the planet.

 

In reality, each class mission on Hoth is a pretty big mission. I've done them all (for both factions), and they represent a significant portion of time spent in each section because each mission has multiple stages. It's really not fair to call 1 class mission the same as 1 mission.

 

Also, each class mission includes a bonus mission, whereas each zone on the planet only contains a few bonus missions spread out among the other missions. This inflates the value of class missions.

 

The most conservative estimate would place a planet with no class story at 72% the size of the same planet with class stories. I don't really think that's a fair estimate. It's arbitrary, but I think 60% is a more fair number.

 

So, when people say Makeb is going to be "a planet," this is realistically only going to be 60-72% of a planet.

 

My reasons for being unwilling to pay extra for this are very different than the topic of this post, but I believe that all facets of this issue bear discussion, hence my reasoning for creating this thread.

 

I also realize that there are mysterious features that they're going to release details on in the future, but this is what we have now and so that makes it fair game to discuss.

 

You can't just take a former planet, remove the class quests and say "well that only leave us 72% of a planet." We have no idea how many zones or quests makeb will have. We know that it will be big and it has to have AT LEAST enough content to get us from 50 to 55.

 

Your estimate has absolutely zero value because you're basing it on a model that exists now. You have no idea what is going into Makeb outside a few sentences from community support.

[arunav]

Let's assume the planet is packed full of missions (even though EA/BW's record since the summer has been lackluster at best).

 

How fun will this planet be to play through with the current server structure?

 

Do you remember the degree of ability lag in Section X in its first week?

 

There were 8 instances the first time I went there, and it was barely playable due to the number of people in the area. Mind you, other areas of the game were fine that night.

 

Suppose EA/BW really pull it on the naysayers this time and Makeb is a better story than any of the planets so far, and it is so well done it makes up for the lack of class stories.

 

How enjoyable will it be to actually play though on our servers, especially in the evenings? EVERYONE will be there.

 

Section X was largely left alone after the initial wave of people that went there, due to it taking so long. To reach 55, most players will slog through Makeb, no matter how good or bad.

 

The current servers simply cannot handle that many people, even in many instances, and provide for smooth game-play. This is what really sucks about the expansion, imo.

Edited December 30, 2012 by arunav

[arunav]

You can't just take a former planet, remove the class quests and say "well that only leave us 72% of a planet." We have no idea how many zones or quests makeb will have. We know that it will be big and it has to have AT LEAST enough content to get us from 50 to 55.

 

Your estimate has absolutely zero value because you're basing it on a model that exists now. You have no idea what is going into Makeb outside a few sentences from community support.

 

Agreed.

 

BW is following a different model entirely with Makeb. It makes no sense to take prior content, which had class quests, and paste its quest numbers and types onto Makeb.

 

If class stories are truly abandoned going forward, which I think they are short of a real turnaround in the game and subsequent boxed expansion a couple of years from now, BW will have to make up for it with better planetary arcs.