How big is a planet with no class missions?

[Draloch]

Let's look at Hoth (one of the big planets). I'm giving numbers for republic. You can just double every number if you want a comprehensive look at the entire planet for both factions.

 

Hoth has 5 questing zones (I'm including the bonus area). It has a total of 41 missions. I'm lumping the main planet story chain, solo missions at each quest hub, and heroic quests. So basically everything, except class quests. I also did not calculate bonus missions. There are several.

 

It has 4 class missions for each class, for a total of 16.

 

At face value, the class missions are 28% of the missions on the planet.

 

In reality, each class mission on Hoth is a pretty big mission. I've done them all (for both factions), and they represent a significant portion of time spent in each section because each mission has multiple stages. It's really not fair to call 1 class mission the same as 1 mission.

 

Also, each class mission includes a bonus mission, whereas each zone on the planet only contains a few bonus missions spread out among the other missions. This inflates the value of class missions.

 

The most conservative estimate would place a planet with no class story at 72% the size of the same planet with class stories. I don't really think that's a fair estimate. It's arbitrary, but I think 60% is a more fair number.

 

So, when people say Makeb is going to be "a planet," this is realistically only going to be 60-72% of a planet.

 

My reasons for being unwilling to pay extra for this are very different than the topic of this post, but I believe that all facets of this issue bear discussion, hence my reasoning for creating this thread.

 

I also realize that there are mysterious features that they're going to release details on in the future, but this is what we have now and so that makes it fair game to discuss.

[BrianDavion]

except your assumeing those class missions would just be dropped. which is a hugely bad assumption. where most likely it just means more missions open to all.

[Petnil]

there´s no class missions but there´s a faction mission + planet quests. faction mission would be something like the ilum quest line. So while it would be the same for each class it still would be extra missions for each class. So it´s something. Not enough to call it an expanson imo but still something.

[CritasStorm]

It's not an expansion...

 

Not all expansions include a level cap raise, but MOST expansions do and MMO players generally relate a level cap raise with an expansion.

 

EA Suits: "Ok Bioware, how do we try to justify this as an expansion so we can charge for it?"

 

Bioware Devs: "Add new abilities to classes and raise the level cap"

 

EA Suits: "Good idea, so raise the level cap so we can charge for this content pack...err expansion I mean."

 

Bioware Devs: "The problem is that we don't have enough new content to justify a level cap increase - just a new planet and some story missions."

 

EA Suits: "Find a way to justify calling this an expansion, we need to charge for it."

 

Bioware Devs: "I guess we can just scale some of the old content so that it is still relevant at the new level cap."

 

EA Suits: "Whatever, just get it done."

 

Bioware Devs: "So how much are you charging for this "expansion?"

 

EA Suits: "$20 for F2P, $10 for Subs"

 

Bioware Devs: "Oh nice, so subs will just be able to use their monthly cartel coins to purchase the "expansion."

 

EA Suits: "(laughs), I like you. Also, no."

Edited December 30, 2012 by CritasStorm

[Draloch]

there´s no class missions but there´s a faction mission + planet quests. faction mission would be something like the ilum quest line. So while it would be the same for each class it still would be extra missions for each class. So it´s something. Not enough to call it an expanson imo but still something.

 

I already factored in the faction mission line on Hoth into the calculation. That whole chain is part of the overall 41 missions on the planet.

[Tyson_Krix]

I guess he meaned that the class missions will become the faction missions while the planet missions will be the 41 missions you're talking about. So we'll have the same amount of mission. That's the way I understand it, and that makes sense. But maybe my english isn't good enough

[AsheraII]

Let's look at Hoth (one of the big planets). I'm giving numbers for republic. You can just double every number if you want a comprehensive look at the entire planet for both factions.

 

Hoth has 5 questing zones (I'm including the bonus area). It has a total of 41 missions. I'm lumping the main planet story chain, solo missions at each quest hub, and heroic quests. So basically everything, except class quests. I also did not calculate bonus missions. There are several.

 

It has 4 class missions for each class, for a total of 16.

 

At face value, the class missions are 28% of the missions on the planet.

 

In reality, each class mission on Hoth is a pretty big mission. I've done them all (for both factions), and they represent a significant portion of time spent in each section because each mission has multiple stages. It's really not fair to call 1 class mission the same as 1 mission.

 

Also, each class mission includes a bonus mission, whereas each zone on the planet only contains a few bonus missions spread out among the other missions. This inflates the value of class missions.

 

The most conservative estimate would place a planet with no class story at 72% the size of the same planet with class stories. I don't really think that's a fair estimate. It's arbitrary, but I think 60% is a more fair number.

 

So, when people say Makeb is going to be "a planet," this is realistically only going to be 60-72% of a planet.

 

My reasons for being unwilling to pay extra for this are very different than the topic of this post, but I believe that all facets of this issue bear discussion, hence my reasoning for creating this thread.

 

I also realize that there are mysterious features that they're going to release details on in the future, but this is what we have now and so that makes it fair game to discuss.

Let's look at it from another angle: take Hoth again, with its 41 world-arc / heroic / side missions, + the 8x4 class missions. Replace those 8x4 class missions with another 8x4 world-arc / heroic / side missions, and you get a total of 73 missions to do on Hoth. Compared to the 45 missions a player usually does (IF the player does all the missions available), then that's a mission increase of 73/45 * 100% - 100% = 62% in missions a given character can do on the planet.

[Glorthox]

Instead of looking at hoth look at a bigger joke, Quesh. Quesh has so few missions, no heroic missions, and no bonus series. Just like Ilum, quesh really doesn't hold very much promise and is very lacking. When bioware stated, one planet is the expansion, I started thinking back to what quesh was and started to worry.

[Draloch]

They did say equivalent to one of the larger planets though.

[Tumedus]

Another way to think of it is time. This way, having + or - 5 quests won't really change the scope too much.

 

The way I play, when I am commited, I can clear any of the bigger planets in about 2-3 days of playtime. So even if the new "expansion" planet is fully loaded to the extent of an Alderaan or Hoth type planet, 3 days is about the top end I can expect if I am playing seriously.

 

By way of comparison, the first 2 WoW expansions (I haven't played since WotLK), playing at roughly that same rate, took about 10-12 days to hit the new level cap and about 4-5 more days to clear the remainder of the quest content.

 

So realistically, the best I could reasonably hope for is that this expansion gives me about 1/5 the new content that the old WoW x-pacs did. Now admittedly, the WoW x-pacs were $40, but extending that comparison, the RotHC is still overpriced, if only by a couple bucks.

 

Edit: fwiw, I have no horse in this race as I don't really care about the x-pac. Just offering my view on it's value from what I have seen.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Tumedus

[utio]

The interesting thing to me is whether the missions take you all the way up to lvl55, or if you'll have to do a bit of grinding exp. If they don't then I will assume it was a content patch, and they stuck the lvl increase in there to call it an expansion. Edited December 30, 2012 by utio

[dacentabaal]

Quest wise doesnt have to mean it has to be a big planet etc....

 

I see it being the size of Hoth or Tattooine, but with the quest/Republic-Imperial size of Ilum at best (not including PvP zone) I think its just gonna be 3/4's the planet story for each faction and a quarter with dalies and a new wolrd boss etc....which Ilum does'nt have, and not forgetting the new even more uglier none star wars looking gear they are releasing too

[Altyrell]

A) No one outside of BioWare and maybe LA & EA have even visited Makeb yet, so no one outside of them really knows just how big or small it will actually be. So please hold judgment for after Reports have come in from Non-BW/EA/LA Employees.

 

B) No one outside of BW/LA/EA knows what all will or won't be in the RotHC Expansion, therefore no one knows the ACTUAL size of the Expansion. So please stop calling it a Mini-Expansion or "Not an Expansion" or whatever until we get MORE Details &/or all of the Details have been released, because for all anyone knows it could be the equivalent of what all goes into an Expansion for the other MMO's.

[Glorthox]

A) No one outside of BioWare and maybe LA & EA have even visited Makeb yet, so no one outside of them really knows just how big or small it will actually be. So please hold judgment for after Reports have come in from Non-BW/EA/LA Employees.

 

B) No one outside of BW/LA/EA knows what all will or won't be in the RotHC Expansion, therefore no one knows the ACTUAL size of the Expansion. So please stop calling it a Mini-Expansion or "Not an Expansion" or whatever until we get MORE Details &/or all of the Details have been released, because for all anyone knows it could be the equivalent of what all goes into an Expansion for the other MMO's.

 

Another blind leading the blind. I'll never understand why people don't actually question things when they need to. Stop being friggin loyal and actually look at what we are seeing, instead of defending them all the time....

[VonFoxFire]

The fact that there's no class missions is really going to kill re-playability. It's bad enough having to play all those other redundant missions but without any class missions it's going to be a real chore leveling alts. Edited December 30, 2012 by VonFoxFire

[Draloch]

I have 7 base classes finished to 50. I'm working on a consular now to finish out the story of the game.

 

Honestly, whether or not there's class content isn't going to impact my purchase decision (I'm unsubbing when the patch comes out), but I probably don't have it in me to play the same 2 planet chains 8 times with no class content.

 

Even if the patch was free, I very likely would end up doing 2 or 3 playthroughs and leaving most of my alts at level 50 just because I can't replay the exact same set of quests that many times.

[Altyrell]

Another blind leading the blind. I'll never understand why people don't actually question things when they need to. Stop being friggin loyal and actually look at what we are seeing, instead of defending them all the time....

 

Dude I haven't even pre-ordered the gorram Expansion yet, mostly because I'm waiting to see what else they add. So shove your "i'm being loyal" thing out the airlock. I'm sorry if I'm not getting all hot and bothered over what little they've released on the Expansion and joined the crazy cult of this isn't an expansion because it only has 1 New World and 5 New Levels and nothing else. I'm sorry that I'm not an insane cultist that has to shove the same bloody gripes across over two dozen threads all spouting the same exact stuff.

[Glorthox]

Dude I haven't even pre-ordered the gorram Expansion yet, mostly because I'm waiting to see what else they add. So shove your "i'm being loyal" thing out the airlock. I'm sorry if I'm not getting all hot and bothered over what little they've released on the Expansion and joined the crazy cult of this isn't an expansion because it only has 1 New World and 5 New Levels and nothing else. I'm sorry that I'm not an insane cultist that has to shove the same bloody gripes across over two dozen threads all spouting the same exact stuff.

 

From the sounds of it dude it sounded like you were defending them is all. I haven't bought the patch / expansion yet either. I'm questioning why subscribers have to pay for something as small as a content patch. I'm just tired of people defending bioware when they should be questioning this lame move. With all the bugs in the game still they haven't fixed yet to actually force their remaining subscribers to keep paying and pay more that one month is crock. So thats what angered me about your post, it seemed like you were one of the ones defending them and saying they can do no wrong...

[Altyrell]

From the sounds of it dude it sounded like you were defending them is all. I haven't bought the patch / expansion yet either. I'm questioning why subscribers have to pay for something as small as a content patch. I'm just tired of people defending bioware when they should be questioning this lame move. With all the bugs in the game still they haven't fixed yet to actually force their remaining subscribers to keep paying and pay more that one month is crock. So thats what angered me about your post, it seemed like you were one of the ones defending them and saying they can do no wrong...

 

I'm just sick and tired of people calling it a small content patch when we don't even know the exact size of the entire Expansion yet.

[Glorthox]

One planet, think about it? Think how many hours or days it took you to get through belsavis? Then think about spending 10 bucks on something that is only going to take at most 3 days to see it all. Thats what people are seeing. Doesn't matter about what they have or haven't said, its the scope. 1 planet really doesn't make an expansion and that is what people are questioning

[Tumedus]

A) No one outside of BioWare and maybe LA & EA have even visited Makeb yet, so no one outside of them really knows just how big or small it will actually be. So please hold judgment for after Reports have come in from Non-BW/EA/LA Employees.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5607001#post5607001

Official response says its equal to one of their bigger planets.

 

Now they may have packed a bit more content into that planet than previous examples but unless you believe they would undersell the planet scope, in a thread already complaining about it not being enough, we know the size of the planet being delivered,

Edited December 30, 2012 by Tumedus

[Altyrell]

One planet, think about it? Think how many hours or days it took you to get through belsavis? Then think about spending 10 bucks on something that is only going to take at most 3 days to see it all. Thats what people are seeing. Doesn't matter about what they have or haven't said, its the scope. 1 planet really doesn't make an expansion and that is what people are questioning

 

People play at different speed, so it might take you less then a day to go through each world, while others it might take them longer as they want to make sure they've gotten everything, done everything, seen everything on the World before moving onto the next one, while also taking time to level up Alts and whatnot. Also, other MMO's Expansions have included the equivalent of 1 World, whether it be a new Continent, expansion of the world, etc.

[Glorthox]

People play at different speed, so it might take you less then a day to go through each world, while others it might take them longer as they want to make sure they've gotten everything, done everything, seen everything on the World before moving onto the next one, while also taking time to level up Alts and whatnot. Also, other MMO's Expansions have included the equivalent of 1 World, whether it be a new Continent, expansion of the world, etc.

 

 

But no class story expansions and no extra companion story. So in essence it is just a content patch, whereas other mmo expansions continue their story regardless of if they bring out a new area or not. If this one planet would have brought with it more class story and companion story then it would be considered a expansion and not a content patch.

[tpryan]

The Makeb story/planet will probably only give less than a week to finish per character...but the other aspects of the Makeb expansion should give us a month+ to explore. We don't know how many FPs and WZs will he added...we don't know how crafting and skills will be changed. This expansion should give us our $10 worth.

[Altyrell]

But no class story expansions and no extra companion story. So in essence it is just a content patch, whereas other mmo expansions continue their story regardless of if they bring out a new area or not. If this one planet would have brought with it more class story and companion story then it would be considered a expansion and not a content patch.

 

Do you want me to list everything that goes into making at least 8 NEW Class Chapters (1 per Class)? Cause I can if you want me to.