-IceHawk- Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Why are they still arguing? What is so hard to just wait and see? I have this great new product you are going to love! It is only $9.99, so its relatively cheap. I will give you the full details after the check has cleared... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I have this great new product you are going to love! It is only $9.99, so its relatively cheap. I will give you the full details after the check has cleared... It's only $9.99. I don't need the full details, just give me the basic outline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowermanx Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) I have this great new product you are going to love! It is only $9.99, so its relatively cheap. I will give you the full details after the check has cleared... What part of wait and see did you not get? Or are you silly enough to give them money then wait? To me, wait and see would mean, wait till all the details are released, and/or the actual product is released, then see if its worth your dollars. Its hardly rocket science... Edited January 4, 2013 by Mowermanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeldon Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 so many people are gonna quit tbh were gonna see the player base split in half have fun with 10k subs bioware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gildoom Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 To the OP, in the amount of time you took to post all that, you could have worked for an hour at a grocery store as a clerk and paid for the sub. Or, perhaps you can go work at Bioware for free, since you think things should be free, lead by example! Go to some corporation and offer to work there, for nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) It's called activism. I happen to care about the future of the MMO business model and I'm willing to be a little bit of an activist to try to prevent the model shifting to one where companies can charge a subscription fee and then charge more to download patches that have new content. This isn't some great new expansion to the game. This is a single player content patch in the same mold as a new collection of space missions, or a couple new warzones, or a new tier of operations. I know there's this huge movement from the company defenders to wait for more information, but there's plenty of information already. We may not know all the details but we know plenty. It's a simple content patch gated behind an artificial level increase that enforces the paywall. With activism, we can maybe prevent this from taking hold. There are real world examples of activism working. Because of activism, black people get to use the same public restrooms as white people. I'm sure there were plenty of people who didn't like the chanting groups of mostly black people forming and protesting segregation. I'm sure those people thought that these 'uppity negroes' were "poisoning the community punchbowl" when they could just as easily use the negro-only restrooms and drinking fountains. But, thanks to activism, we don't have segregation laws. There are also real world examples of negative consequences that might have been prevented with activism. Because we didn't do anything to prevent companies from shutting down virtually all manufacturing in this country and shipping jobs over to sweat shops in China, we no longer really have a manufacturing sector of our economy. Those jobs just don't exist any more. Everything you buy just about anywhere says "made in China" now. You literally cannot buy any type of shoes anywhere that say "made in the U.S.A." I grew up in the 80's. No one saw that coming. There was some general sense of concern that we were starting to outsource manufacturing, but there was no activism. There was no concerted effort to stop it. Now, manufacturing is gone and our economy is worse off for it. Now, you can be as critical as you want of me for choosing to be passionate about this game, but the truth is that Bioware is trying to grab some short term money right now because they haven't made very good financial decisions. This is just another domino on the path to financial ruin. They are going to lose subscribers over this and they are going to lose potential subscribers when ftp people hit level 50 and are hit with a sudden $20 paywall to keep playing. This is bad for everyone. If this game can be saved, it's going to be saved by activists. We're not poisoning the well. We're fighting for a better environment. Today we use our voices to speak truth to power. If Bioware doesn't change course, then we'll use our wallets. EA will see the loss of subs and shut down the game, and we'll have saved the industry by telling a cautionary tale for any other MMORPG makers who think they can charge their users a subscription fee on top of content download fees.I was there in the 60s and 70s (still have my Beatles & Stones records) so I have a pretty good idea of what evolution, revolution and unrest looks like. Your post reads like it wants to emulate that period in time. So I'll play along. First of all openly campaigning for a game's demise in the hopes of growing support for that sentiment - in the game's own living room - is brash but dumb. Probably against the forum's Terms too, but I digress. Were it my home I'd simply call the cops on a few unwelcomed guests and be done with it. By your words, "speaking truth to power ... by actively protesting users being charged a subscription fee on top of content download fees" is going to save the gaming industry by telling a cautionary tale? Hmmm ... Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only way you'll make that large an impact is if you take down the king of this alleged "corruption" ... Blizzard. That is IF you really want to make a difference and not just sound cool & intelligent in a public forum. Anything else is little more than shouting at the rain. Your eloquence and wordsmithing are to be applauded, but it won't make a dent because MMOs that aren't freeware, shareware or Facebook will charge for expansion content. Period. Can always do what they did back in the day ... grow your own ... But then you'd have no reason to protest, which is a driving need for true activists. Or there's always following in Abbie Hoffman's footsteps ... can publish a blog about how corrupt the gaming industry is. Maybe even call it 'Steal This Blog' for good measure. Edited January 4, 2013 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eviscerater Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The problem is people dont realize it isn't $9.99, it is $14.99 + $9.99 for a total of $24.98. It is actually cheaper to not be a subscriber and purchase the content. You know the content that was originally supposed to be supplied for free. Also I agree, there isn't enough to entice me into "pre" ordering the thing 4-6 months in advance. For a mere 5 day headstart, so what I can wait 5 days to not in an over crowded section of a map and take 99 times longer to complete something than it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) The problem is people dont realize it isn't $9.99, it is $14.99 + $9.99 for a total of $24.98. It is actually cheaper to not be a subscriber and purchase the content. You know the content that was originally supposed to be supplied for free. Also I agree, there isn't enough to entice me into "pre" ordering the thing 4-6 months in advance. For a mere 5 day headstart, so what I can wait 5 days to not in an over crowded section of a map and take 99 times longer to complete something than it should.It definitely is cheaper to not be a subscriber and purchase the content as a F2P player in the long term. What comes with that however are the F2P limitations. Neither the subscription model, nor its value, changes as a result of charging for xpac content. Nor does the value of F2P increase or decrease. Edited January 4, 2013 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eviscerater Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 It definitely is cheaper to not be a subscriber and purchase the content as a F2P player in the long term. What comes with that however are the F2P limitations. Neither the subscription model, nor its value, changes as a result of charging for xpac content. Nor does the value of F2P increase or decrease. Except after having been a paid customer i'm not limited to all the normal F2P limitations. Also If all there is is 5 additional levels to advance, then I don't need to worry about the limitations of being a f2p player as there isn't anything for me to take advantage of as a paying customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSchmo Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The problem is people dont realize it isn't $9.99, it is $14.99 + $9.99 for a total of $24.98. It is actually cheaper to not be a subscriber and purchase the content. You know the content that was originally supposed to be supplied for free. This argument is dumb and holds no water. You are paying the sub anyway, the month before, month of, and months after. <insert whitty analogy here> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eviscerater Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 This argument is dumb and holds no water. You are paying the sub anyway, the month before, month of, and months after. <insert whitty analogy here> Only to an idiot would that arguement be dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamed Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Only to an idiot would that arguement be dumb. He has a point though. $14.99 would be considered sunk cost since its the cost for you to actually play the game on a monthly basis and its something you have paid for already. Now the $10 is a one-time investment if you will since it comes with the hopes of making your future game play even better. It's not like you are paying a recurring $10 every month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklordpotter Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Last I checked with most Expansions you have to pay for them, only a few MMO's out there are the Expansions free. 1)Also, Makeb is NOT the only thing in the Expansion, and so they changed from having Makeb be an Update to an Expansion. 2)Plus where did they say that it would ONLY be 1 New Ability per Class? "Expansion" Chuckle. 1)Really you have some inside source of information? Makeb is the only thing being advertised so yes AFAIK Makeb is all we are getting. It was always supposed to increase the level cap even back in those halocyn days when it was free. 2) Dev tracker is your friend here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5607012#edit5607012 Edited January 5, 2013 by darklordpotter because the word I used for laughing hit the filters. /facepalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnweldin Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Doesn't the cat race also come with this expansion? I remember reading that somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklordpotter Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Doesn't the cat race also come with this expansion? I remember reading that somewhere. Back in the day maybe these days it's Cartel Market and they're saying if you want any other alien races you need to buy it as any further race development requires the cat people to sell well. Yay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrillOG- Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 What I dont get is why people act like they are being forced to pre order it. You can wait, and with waiting will come more information. I pre ordered because Im gonna want to be able to do as much as i possibly can with this game, and hope that if enough people purchase it, then we will see a larger expansion, and future major updates. Sure, everyone wants more information. But it was JUST announced, if we didnt get the announcement the same people would likely be complaining about no new content. Patience is a great thing in life to have, and with the blog today there were several new details that made me look forward to this even more. As far as cathar go, i hope they continue to delay it, the day i see a bunch of cats running around on fleet is the day i unsub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Except after having been a paid customer i'm not limited to all the normal F2P limitations. Also If all there is is 5 additional levels to advance, then I don't need to worry about the limitations of being a f2p player as there isn't anything for me to take advantage of as a paying customer.Sounds like you're Preferred Status. I personally am a sub and will continue to be a sub because of the Preferred Status limitations. While the limitations of Preferred aren't nearly as severe as the freebie limitations, they are still tangible. If that works for you, then outstanding. I'm glad to see that the Preferred Status level is working as intended. Edited January 5, 2013 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicideclouds Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Are we crying over 10 dollars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anosa Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Are we crying over 10 dollars? i know right? i dont see the problem with paying 10 bucks and having that funding aid the games growth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Doesn't the cat race also come with this expansion? I remember reading that somewhere. Nope, it was never part of Makeb. It's only link to Makeb was being put in the same "coming to TOR" video that was released during the summer months during.. I think it was E3. Some of those things have already been released, like HK-51, and never was it said that all these things would come in one big expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) "Expansion" Chuckle. 1)Really you have some inside source of information? Makeb is the only thing being advertised so yes AFAIK Makeb is all we are getting. It was always supposed to increase the level cap even back in those halocyn days when it was free. No it's not. When it's a level cap increase, a new planet, a new ability for each advanced class, new talent points (and all balance changes because of that). And that is just what has been announced so far. The probability because of language used is that there will also be at least 1 new daily area as well. As it was said that there will be 'repeatable activities'. This may even also suggest new minigames like Pazaak or Sabacc. In the State of the Game blog post there were also mentions of some of the 'new systems' that have also been mentioned before. One example being 'new things to do with your companion' as well as a 'same gender romance with an NPC on Makeb'. This is nowhere from inside information and is more than 'just a planet' as you claim it to be. For me, so far, the little cost of 10 dollars for a little bit of trust that this will be more than just a 5 level grind is looking better than all the cheap whines i've seen in this thread. See you at early access to Makeb, or not if you choose to hold back your purchase until you feel you have your money's worth. I really don't care which way you go personally. Also, every WoW expansion and/or any other game's expansion can be described as "just a planet/continent/country".. so yeah.. Edited January 6, 2013 by Devlonir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holinyx Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 the thread that won't die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prysha Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) I have this great new product you are going to love! It is only $9.99, so its relatively cheap. I will give you the full details after the check has cleared... Ive Preordered, because i know there is an entire new planet, ( includes audiodialoges , new missions , new flash points , new items , level cap increase , new receipes , new mats and so on...) THAT all must be paid somehow... ima subscriber so it costs me only 8 euros , thats within my limits ...okay... But you act like they only add a new helmet..lol... ITS AN ENTIRE PLANET! And for the other people who want everything for free... DO YOU realise that this games offers many languages? means everything must be spoken by persons... its not like the other cheap games out there.... Updates of this game require alot of time and work....but sure.. you want everything for free... I hope the game goes pack to PAY, F2P only brings all the freeleechers here...(( not all , but many )) anyways.. if you dont want to preorder then just dont do it.. wait until release... watch youtube videos how we other s have fun at Makeb and then go cry....but dont complain here because you're being a paranoid.. blasted... Edited January 6, 2013 by Prysha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDreamz Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Ive Preordered, because i know there is an entire new planet, ( includes audiodialoges , new missions , new flash points , new items , level cap increase , new receipes , new mats and so on...) THAT all must be paid somehow... ima subscriber so it costs me only 8 euros , thats within my limits ...okay... But you act like they only add a new helmet..lol... ITS AN ENTIRE PLANET! anyways.. if you dont want to preorder then just dont do it.. wait until release... watch youtube videos how we other s have fun at Makeb and then go cry....but dont complain here because you're being a paranoid.. blasted... Really?! A whole new planet??? A whole new planet with NPCs that don't move, don't interact with the environment and more npcs to get stuck in walls shooting at me!!! A whole planet that within a weekend I do all the quests then I can ... :rak_02::rak_02: Riiiiiight because the other planets they've implemented were so engaging, interesting and so alive that I didn't spend 95% of my game time on the fleet. Things are going to be sooooo much different this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoDaresWins Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) The fun thing is: NOBODY outside of Bioware knows how big Rise of the Hutt-Cartel will be in content except that it brings the lvl-cap-increase and Makeb as planet, yet pretty much EVERYBODY seems to know it won't be worth 15 $..... So....uh...do you guys have a magic glass-ball or a pimped Maya-calendar that tells you the future or something? What happened to the good old "we wait till we have ALL the infos, then think about it, then praise / complain" ? Oh, right, it's alot easier to directly say "i have no idea how many hours of playtime i'll get for those 15$, but in no way it'll be worth 15$, gotta grab my torch and pitchfork" Except common sense would dictate that they WANT players to purchase it, right? Surely, if you don't want scepticism and doomsaying from already annoyed subscribers you would want to reassure them that yes, this is worthy DLC content and not just a glorified patch they've trying to nickle and dime us for. This is why other games usually release ALL their 'expansion pack' (and lets be honest, this isn't an expansion pack) information on the major bullet points and updates in the patch during the first announcement. Its like going into a restaurant, paying the chef £12 and having no clue what you're getting except a three course meal. After all the crap EAWare has been pulling recently people have more than a right to be sceptical. Edited January 6, 2013 by WhoDaresWins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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