I'm feeling Nickel and Dimed by Makeb

[Goretzu]

I've reported you for questioning my authority. ;p

 

No, LOL, I don't want to start even more rumors. I'm just going on what has been said in the past regarding the expansion, from way in the beginning. I'm making an assumption that an expansion will have new content to cover the planet such as warezones and OPs only because it would not make any sense at all to release five new levels without end game content to occupy those levels.

 

I'd expect a FP or two (perhaps), myself, but not so much any new Warzones (but still maybe).

 

But I'm just saying as things stand they haven't said anything, but planet and 5 levels, or at least I've not seen them say anything else.

 

From what has been said (so far) it seems "expansion" is more of a PR exercise in wording than a genuine discription (as people would expect it), I think "adventure pack" might be closer to the reality.

[Goretzu]

Except they said that they were going to tweak the EXISTING content's numbers so that it is set up for level 55's, effectively removing all of the content for 50's and making 55 something you have to buy if you want to do OPs or FP's. YAY.

 

Yeah I think that's the worst case scenario, in which case the "pay wall" comments will be fully justified.

[Durasturan]

Yeah I think that's the worst case scenario, in which case the "pay wall" comments will be fully justified.

 

I mean for me it is already a "pay wall" because I predominantly PVP, not PVE. I haven't even stepped foot in TFB but have at least attempted the other OPs contents, but only because me guild's PVE half needed someone to pick up heals after our MH left the game.

 

For us PVPers it's a huge slap in the face because it comes with NO pvp content and yet to remain competitive you will HAVE to buy it. That and the fact that it feels like a bait and switch are the big reasons I'm so pissed about it. No Ilum revamp like promised, no official start to season one or tournaments, only two new WZ's all freakin year, still nothing down with Outlaw's Den, but hey here's some shoddy new planet you'll have to buy or you won't even be able to participate in high end pvp anymore.

[Blackardin]

Except they said that they were going to tweak the EXISTING content's numbers so that it is set up for level 55's, effectively removing all of the content for 50's and making 55 something you have to buy if you want to do OPs or FP's. YAY.

 

There has been alot said about what they've said. LOL

 

This is one of my concerns though. As I stated previously, a money grab possibility does exist. I suggested it may be a move to enhance working capitol, but in the back of my mind that little voice is saying different.

 

I'm sensing this. They change the name from "content upgrade" to "expansion" without really changing anything. They just add numbers to current content to make it higher level (which, for me, would be just doing old raids over again but with different numbers? ). No new content to speak of. No new story lines. One more planet with what sort of organization or leveling path? ....then the hyped "pre-order", which I've never really seen in a game before.

 

I've run a business for a very long time. When I see a contractor being vague about what he's going to do, and then asking for money upfront without a definitive plan, contract, commitment all sorts of bells and whistles go off. It may be straight up, but it may be a sham. Not taking that chance.

 

I have other issues to deal with in this game that are preventing me from paying for the expansion, but there is no way, in their wildest dreams, based on past performance and the direction the game has moved, that I would front out a nickle for something that I have no idea about. That's not even bad business from my perspective, its being suckered.

[Blackardin]

I mean for me it is already a "pay wall" because I predominantly PVP, not PVE. I haven't even stepped foot in TFB but have at least attempted the other OPs contents, but only because me guild's PVE half needed someone to pick up heals after our MH left the game.

 

For us PVPers it's a huge slap in the face because it comes with NO pvp content and yet to remain competitive you will HAVE to buy it. That and the fact that it feels like a bait and switch are the big reasons I'm so pissed about it. No Ilum revamp like promised, no official start to season one or tournaments, only two new WZ's all freakin year, still nothing down with Outlaw's Den, but hey here's some shoddy new planet you'll have to buy or you won't even be able to participate in high end pvp anymore.

 

Exactly. Now we are getting to the "meat and potatoes" of why people are upset about the 10 dollars. I think your feelings are somewhat echoing across the player base, at least for us long term players.

[Durasturan]

There has been alot said about what they've said. LOL

 

This is one of my concerns though. As I stated previously, a money grab possibility does exist. I suggested it may be a move to enhance working capitol, but in the back of my mind that little voice is saying different.

 

I'm sensing this. They change the name from "content upgrade" to "expansion" without really changing anything. They just add numbers to current content to make it higher level (which, for me, would be just doing old raids over again but with different numbers? ). No new content to speak of. No new story lines. One more planet with what sort of organization or leveling path? ....then the hyped "pre-order", which I've never really seen in a game before.

 

I've run a business for a very long time. When I see a contractor being vague about what he's going to do, and then asking for money upfront without a definitive plan, contract, commitment all sorts of bells and whistles go off. It may be straight up, but it may be a sham. Not taking that chance.

 

I have other issues to deal with in this game that are preventing me from paying for the expansion, but there is no way, in their wildest dreams, based on past performance and the direction the game has moved, that I would front out a nickle for something that I have no idea about. That's not even bad business from my perspective, its being suckered.

 

Oh make no mistake, I do not in any way shape or form support the monetization of this content patch and have already cancelled my sub as a result of how utterly and completely crap their behavior has been. I'm just relaying what they said they were going to do, which in my opinion is the worst possible way of handling the level cap increase as it effectively forces everyone to get 55 or not do like half the content in the game.

[AlienEyeTX]

I mean for me it is already a "pay wall" because I predominantly PVP, not PVE. I haven't even stepped foot in TFB but have at least attempted the other OPs contents, but only because me guild's PVE half needed someone to pick up heals after our MH left the game.

 

For us PVPers it's a huge slap in the face because it comes with NO pvp content and yet to remain competitive you will HAVE to buy it. That and the fact that it feels like a bait and switch are the big reasons I'm so pissed about it. No Ilum revamp like promised, no official start to season one or tournaments, only two new WZ's all freakin year, still nothing down with Outlaw's Den, but hey here's some shoddy new planet you'll have to buy or you won't even be able to participate in high end pvp anymore.

 

You have no idea if any of what you posted is actually accurate. None of us do. At least, not until we see the forthcoming announcements regarding additional content. Or until the expansion is released.

 

Patience.

[Durasturan]

You have no idea if any of what you posted is actually accurate. None of us do. At least, not until we see the forthcoming announcements regarding additional content. Or until the expansion is released.

 

Patience.

 

http://www.swtor.com/rothc?intcmp=sor_bwa-mkt-t-us-rhp-005

 

Look at those key features, do you see PVP anywhere in there? Those are the features of the game so far announced by BW. Now you can say "but they might add flashpoints and ops and warzones and new OPVP areas and etc etc etc."

 

But here's the thing, if they even thought for a second they'd be able to actually put or even WANTED to put that stuff in there, they'd be advertising it like CRAZY to make this content update sound like a real expansion. The fact that you can already preorder it but those things are not up there as features that you will get in exchange for your money, tells me they have no desire or ability to include them.

[AlienEyeTX]

http://www.swtor.com/rothc?intcmp=sor_bwa-mkt-t-us-rhp-005

 

Look at those key features, do you see PVP anywhere in there? Those are the features of the game so far announced by BW. Now you can say "but they might add flashpoints and ops and warzones and new OPVP areas and etc etc etc."

 

But here's the thing, if they even thought for a second they'd be able to actually put or even WANTED to put that stuff in there, they'd be advertising it like CRAZY to make this content update sound like a real expansion. The fact that you can already preorder it but those things are not up there as features that you will get in exchange for your money, tells me they have no desire or ability to include them.

 

I suppose "Stay tuned for more information coming soon - Over the next few months we will reveal more exciting new features!" is a meaningless and pointless line that they threw in there just to have another line of copy?

 

Don't be so naive. There is more to it. Even if there isn't, it's still worth the $10-20 for me. For you, maybe not. But, the fact remains, that there is more to the expansion than what we know so far.

[Durasturan]

I suppose "Stay tuned for more information coming soon - Over the next few months we will reveal more exciting new features!" is a meaningless and pointless line that they threw in there just to have another line of copy?

 

Don't be so naive. There is more to it. Even if there isn't, it's still worth the $10-20 for me. For you, maybe not. But, the fact remains, that there is more to the expansion than what we know so far.

 

Yes, it is a meaningless and pointless marketing line. It essentially tells me "we don't even care enough to put together a legit marketing campaign for this product, no dev walkthrough's, videos, we can't even give you a laundry list of things, only two bullet points."

 

See here's the thing, BW has always promised a,b,c,d and when push comes to shove they deliver a, on time, b late, c late and buggy and d never comes at all. If you've been here from launch you would have realized that by now.

[AlienEyeTX]

Yes, it is a meaningless and pointless marketing line. It essentially tells me "we don't even care enough to put together a legit marketing campaign for this product, no dev walkthrough's, videos, we can't even give you a laundry list of things, only two bullet points."

 

See here's the thing, BW has always promised a,b,c,d and when push comes to shove they deliver a, on time, b late, c late and buggy and d never comes at all. If you've been here from launch you would have realized that by now.

 

As I've stated on previous threads, they seem to have learned from past mistakes about announcements. They will only announce things that they are sure will make it in. Thus, as we get closer to release they will have a better idea of what is ready and what is not ready. Then they will announce it.

 

I imagine we'll see a good bit more marketing closer to the end of winter/beginning of spring. After all, spring is still nearly 3 months away. They have a lot of time to get stuff ready.

[A_nonymous]

As I've stated on previous threads, they seem to have learned from past mistakes about announcements. They will only announce things that they are sure will make it in. Thus, as we get closer to release they will have a better idea of what is ready and what is not ready. Then they will announce it.

 

I imagine we'll see a good bit more marketing closer to the end of winter/beginning of spring. After all, spring is still nearly 3 months away. They have a lot of time to get stuff ready.

 

I think it is completely legit to react to just what we've seen. They shouldn't be shocked that they make a lackluster announcement and people get upset. The fact that they are 3 months out and don't know what will make it in (according to your thinking) says a lot right there. Other games have announced what they will be releasing next year. They haven't given dates or anything, but they've already announced what they're going to be releasing. If all we get this year is 1 planet that is extremely disappointing.

[Durasturan]

As I've stated on previous threads, they seem to have learned from past mistakes about announcements. They will only announce things that they are sure will make it in. Thus, as we get closer to release they will have a better idea of what is ready and what is not ready. Then they will announce it.

 

I imagine we'll see a good bit more marketing closer to the end of winter/beginning of spring. After all, spring is still nearly 3 months away. They have a lot of time to get stuff ready.

 

If you're not sure what's in your product why would you put it up for sale? And you're missing the biggie here, the numero uno point behind it all.

 

I'm fine with vague, that's fine. They can say "we'll have this new planet Makeb, it will be about as big as Hoth and have a whole bunch more quests." They don't have to tell me "and look at all these new quest mechanics that will make PVE and leveling more varied and engaging, this is a Cybertech repairing a battle droid that he will pilot...

 

I'm fine with them saying "we'll have a new level cap and abilities" without going so far as saying "and here is new sorc ability ball lightening, look at that new casting animation, and the the sage version looks like this!"

 

I'd be fine with them saying "and you'll get a new warzone, it will directly pit both factions against eachother for the resources of Makeb" without them saying "here's a video of the new warzone, it takes place in a massive factory churning out battle droids for the war effort!"

 

I'm fine with vague. But Makeb is already 3 months overdue. They said by winter, then by the end of the year now it's spring 2013, which is 3 months away AT THE EARLIEST. If they don't know what they're putting in this package, if they haven't decided what features it will include, then how could they have possibly come to price point that makes any sense for what you're getting? If they have no idea what's in it, what they will be able to offer when it releases, then how is it in any way shape or form ready to be up for preorder? How can they be accepting money for it already if they don't even know what it comes with?

[Goretzu]

I mean for me it is already a "pay wall" because I predominantly PVP, not PVE. I haven't even stepped foot in TFB but have at least attempted the other OPs contents, but only because me guild's PVE half needed someone to pick up heals after our MH left the game.

 

For us PVPers it's a huge slap in the face because it comes with NO pvp content and yet to remain competitive you will HAVE to buy it. That and the fact that it feels like a bait and switch are the big reasons I'm so pissed about it. No Ilum revamp like promised, no official start to season one or tournaments, only two new WZ's all freakin year, still nothing down with Outlaw's Den, but hey here's some shoddy new planet you'll have to buy or you won't even be able to participate in high end pvp anymore.

 

 

Yeah they mentioned that in the last Gamebreaker thing about Makeb.

 

Basically L50-55 (L50-54 with boost) for PvP will be OK.

 

Seperate L55 bracket will be bad.

 

 

So far we have no idea how it will go.

[Durasturan]

Yeah they mentioned that in the last Gamebreaker thing about Makeb.

 

Basically L50-55 (L50-54 with boost) for PvP will be OK.

 

Seperate L55 bracket will be bad.

 

 

So far we have no idea how it will go.

 

Yeah I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. If the new bracket is 1-54 with boost and then a seperate L55 bracket, PVP is going to go back to the first week of early access, where you have decked out 50's fighting against level 12's. Can you imagine a level 54 in fully auged EWH fighting a level 11 in greens with no relics, implants ear etc. That will be... less than fun.

[Goretzu]

There has been alot said about what they've said. LOL

 

This is one of my concerns though. As I stated previously, a money grab possibility does exist. I suggested it may be a move to enhance working capitol, but in the back of my mind that little voice is saying different.

 

I'm sensing this. They change the name from "content upgrade" to "expansion" without really changing anything. They just add numbers to current content to make it higher level (which, for me, would be just doing old raids over again but with different numbers? ). No new content to speak of. No new story lines. One more planet with what sort of organization or leveling path? ....then the hyped "pre-order", which I've never really seen in a game before.

 

I've run a business for a very long time. When I see a contractor being vague about what he's going to do, and then asking for money upfront without a definitive plan, contract, commitment all sorts of bells and whistles go off. It may be straight up, but it may be a sham. Not taking that chance.

 

I have other issues to deal with in this game that are preventing me from paying for the expansion, but there is no way, in their wildest dreams, based on past performance and the direction the game has moved, that I would front out a nickle for something that I have no idea about. That's not even bad business from my perspective, its being suckered.

 

Oh yes indeed, a very prudent attitiude.

 

Certainly with Makeb so far there are a LOT of unanswered and important questions.

[Mallorik]

Does anyone else find it weird or shady that they put in a deadline to get people to buy it and still havent really told us what is in it?

 

 

Anyways, i think they will have some fps and a raid, they just arent done with them yet, makeb itself was made in beta they are probably just working on finishing the raid and fps the old dev team was working on before they were s canned.

 

They are giving away makeb for free because its already done, the 10 dollars is to pay for the fps and raid that will hold the fanboys for another 6 months and keep them buying old costumes and saber crystals that were in beta and never pushed to live (we got all the cool space samurai stuff for live).

 

People rellying on this makeb patch to see if this game is going to fail or not is just stupid, they arent making makeb, it was made long ago, youll have to wait for the next new content to see if these clowns are actualy working on an mmo or just stringing people along trying to get as much money as they can selling sparkle ponies and pixe dust to the dullards.

[Goretzu]

Yeah I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. If the new bracket is 1-54 with boost and then a seperate L55 bracket, PVP is going to go back to the first week of early access, where you have decked out 50's fighting against level 12's. Can you imagine a level 54 in fully auged EWH fighting a level 11 in greens with no relics, implants ear etc. That will be... less than fun.

 

Yeah the current boost system works ok up till you start seeing twinked out L49s, then it falls apart quite badly.

 

The situation can only be much, much worse if they went that way and it was fully twinked out L50s.

[GalacticKegger]

I sense a disturbance in the force, i sense rich kids and defenders to the death incoming like 10's of voices suddenly shouted out and then there was silence.

 

For they shall shout its only 10 bux and something else costs that much and they dont notice.

If occasionally paying $10 in support of a hobby is enough to predispose someone to a snobitorium, then neither the hobby's price, nor one's willingness to support it, is at issue. If $10 really is too steep, then perhaps taking an hour out of what must be an incredibly challenging life to mow a neighbor's lawn once every six months could help in this endeavor. Edited January 2, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Happy_Puppy]

The fun thing is:

 

 

NOBODY outside of Bioware knows how big Rise of the Hutt-Cartel will be in content except that it brings the lvl-cap-increase and Makeb as planet, yet pretty much EVERYBODY seems to know it won't be worth 15 $.....

 

So....uh...do you guys have a magic glass-ball or a pimped Maya-calendar that tells you the future or something?

 

 

What happened to the good old "we wait till we have ALL the infos, then think about it, then praise / complain" ?

 

 

Oh, right, it's alot easier to directly say "i have no idea how many hours of playtime i'll get for those 15$, but in no way it'll be worth 15$, gotta grab my torch and pitchfork"

 

No we DO know that is one planet about the size of there bigest one currently in game. So ya that gives us a pretty good understanding of about the size of this ONE planet. There is only so much content you can stick in there for both factions. Unless there planing on doing a single hub for both factions and if they did that.. well I think that would be the nail in the coffin.

[Durasturan]

Does anyone else find it weird or shady that they put in a deadline to get people to buy it and still havent really told us what is in it?

 

 

Anyways, i think they will have some fps and a raid, they just arent done with them yet, makeb itself was made in beta they are probably just working on finishing the raid and fps the old dev team was working on before they were s canned.

 

They are giving away makeb for free because its already done, the 10 dollars is to pay for the fps and raid that will hold the fanboys for another 6 months and keep them buying old costumes and saber crystals that were in beta and never pushed to live (we got all the cool space samurai stuff for live).

 

People rellying on this makeb patch to see if this game is going to fail or not is just stupid, they arent making makeb, it was made long ago, youll have to wait for the next new content to see if these clowns are actualy working on an mmo or just stringing people along trying to get as much money as they can selling sparkle ponies and pixe dust to the dullards.

 

See I think if they had any hope whatsoever of putting that kind of content, WZ, FP, Ops, into the update, then they would have put it in the features in a vague and meaningless way like they did with everything else, just to sell the "xpac" more easily and make it appealing to more of the game's audience (since as of right now there is nothing in it for PVPers to actually wany.) And if the Ops etc weren't ready come release time, they'd just push back the release date "because we want to deliver the highest quality product possible." And they'd be fine.

 

It also doesn't make sense to include things like Ops and Wz's and Fps in the offering since they're wanting their free players to buy it and it doesn't make sense to buy something the big selling point of something is content or gear you can't actually use without buying multiple unlocks on top of it.

[Durasturan]

If occasionally paying $10 in support of a hobby is enough to predispose someone to a snobitorium, then neither the hobby's price, nor one's willingness to support it, is at issue. If $10 really is too steep, then perhaps taking an hour out of what must be an incredibly challenging life to mow a neighbor's lawn once every six months could help in this endeavor.

 

 

It's not the price, it's that it doesn't have a single thing I want. As I've said before, I'm a PVPer, where is the pvp content here to attract me? All I see is some arbitrary level cap increase with one new ability. That's not exactly a huge offering for $10 and I'm not going to reward them for giving me so little since that will make a dirty little habit of the whole thing.

 

If they want my money they have to give me something I want, doesn't matter if it's $1 or $100. I've already spent $300 on this game, and last year I spent $1k on video games total. Money isn't really an issue. But I'm not going to spend money, not even $1 on something I don't want. And right now I don't want RotHC.

[Durasturan]

Oh and for everyone saying "it's only $10, what are you poor?"

 

You can buy ET the video game for Atari 2600 right now for the same price as one month's sub and the new "expansion" if it's so little money why don't you guys all go out and buy it?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-2600-Game-E-T-The-Extra-Terrestrial-NEW-in-package-/370727323366?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item56511206e6

[A_nonymous]

Does anyone else find it weird or shady that they put in a deadline to get people to buy it and still havent really told us what is in it?

 

 

Anyways, i think they will have some fps and a raid, they just arent done with them yet, makeb itself was made in beta they are probably just working on finishing the raid and fps the old dev team was working on before they were s canned.

 

They are giving away makeb for free because its already done, the 10 dollars is to pay for the fps and raid that will hold the fanboys for another 6 months and keep them buying old costumes and saber crystals that were in beta and never pushed to live (we got all the cool space samurai stuff for live).

 

People rellying on this makeb patch to see if this game is going to fail or not is just stupid, they arent making makeb, it was made long ago, youll have to wait for the next new content to see if these clowns are actualy working on an mmo or just stringing people along trying to get as much money as they can selling sparkle ponies and pixe dust to the dullards.

 

If they are indeed adding new FP, WZs, etc... and just aren't done with them, why not announce them? If they know they'll be there in some form, why not announce them?

[mothear]

Does anyone else find it weird or shady that they put in a deadline to get people to buy it and still havent really told us what is in it?

 

 

Anyways, i think they will have some fps and a raid, they just arent done with them yet, makeb itself was made in beta they are probably just working on finishing the raid and fps the old dev team was working on before they were s canned.

 

They are giving away makeb for free because its already done, the 10 dollars is to pay for the fps and raid that will hold the fanboys for another 6 months and keep them buying old costumes and saber crystals that were in beta and never pushed to live (we got all the cool space samurai stuff for live).

 

People rellying on this makeb patch to see if this game is going to fail or not is just stupid, they arent making makeb, it was made long ago, youll have to wait for the next new content to see if these clowns are actualy working on an mmo or just stringing people along trying to get as much money as they can selling sparkle ponies and pixe dust to the dullards.

 

Sounds both shady and wierd to me.

 

Wierd -

 

I play this game for story and professions and I'll be able to level to 55 but won't be able to make create any items that are above level 50? Sounds strange and unlike any game I've ever played before.

 

Shady -

 

If they were to include an Op then a F2P person paying $20 would be gated out of something that they were buying. This sounds shady at best, illegal at worse. I therefore suspect you're thinking correctly and the first 6 week content patch following the 'Expansion'will be an Op, which gets around this issue.

 

I wouldn't be suprised if they introduce new NM flashpoints based on existing ones only, with 'new' Makeb FP's being introduced as content patches.

 

Only my opinion based off the information so far provided.

Edited January 2, 2013 by mothear