I'm feeling Nickel and Dimed by Makeb

[Altyrell]

There are a lot of things on that list that are pretty damn redundant or deliberately deceptive. Like you mention pretty much the same things just in a different way (i.e. the mounts crafting the starting zones ect.. ) Nor do I agree with you about the size of a lot of the zones either. That said yea you are right BC was bigger then this expansion will be but it's was also considerately more expensive and took forever to come out. I'd be sad if it wasn't bigger.

 

I pre-ordered mine last week and I'm pretty sure I'll get 10 bucks worth of material out of it. Considering I paid more then 10$ for BC 6 years ago; comparing BC to this x-pac seems like comparing apples to oranges. But if you are hesitant to spend your 10 (or 20 i suppose now) dollars on Rise of the Hutt Cartel that's fine wait and see what all is going to be in it and make a choice then. At this point we know so little about it that it's kind of silly to declare that it's not worth it when you don't even know what all it will entail. You do know what all was in BC because you've been able to play and experience it for 6 years. Like I said apples and orange.

 

Another reason why it is "Apples & Oranges" is because, as I've stated previously, it was a little over 3 Years before The Burning Crusade Expansion was released for World of Warcraft.

[Vlacke]

all said and done. Makeb won't be a tenth of what BC was and still is.

 

You somehow forgot to mention, in all your hatred, that Makeb is 10$ while Burning Crusade costed like 40-50 dollars, in Europe even more when it came out.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Vlacke

[Goretzu]

MMO's I can think of that have had Expansions/Adventures Packs

 

SWG - June 2003 // Jump To Lightspeed - October 2004 = ~ 1 Year, 4 Months = ~16 Months

EQ - March 1999 // RoK - April 2000 = ~1 Year, 1 Month = ~13 Months

WoW - November 2004 // TBC - January 2007 = ~ 3 Years, 3 Months = ~ 39 Months

TOR - December 2011 // RotHC (AP/Expansion/Whatever) - Spring 2013 = ~ 1 Year, (3 Months - 5 Months) = ~(15 - 17 Months)

Perfect World International - ~September 2008 // The Lost Empire - December 2008 = ~3 Months

EQ 2 - November 2004 // The Bloodline Chronicles (Adventure Pack) - March 2005 // Desert of Flames (Expansion) September 2005 = ~4 Months (Adventure Pack) // ~10 Months (Expansion)

 

==============

 

Basically for the ones I listed, the shortest was ~3 Months (PWI) while the longest was a little over ~3 Years (WoW), so in other words, there really isn't an "Industry Standard" so whether you call it an Adventure Pack or an Expansion, it would still, regardless of whatever name you want to call it, be the first MAJOR Update to the Game as opposed to Patches.

 

 

If you average them out they come to about 18 months.

 

Sure some are quicker some are longer, I'm not sure anyone ever said otherwise.

 

 

 

Adventure packs usually appear more often, although no usually over a year in-between.

[Beslley]

You somehow forgot to mention, in all your hatred, that Makeb is 10$ while Burning Crusade costed like 40-50 dollars, in Europe even more when it came out.

 

That's not the point he was trying to make. Someone erroneously stated that BC was smaller than Makeb, so he corrected them.

[Kariella]

its only $10... get a job... or a life... (well it was only $10 I guess its $20 now?)

 

do a /played and if you average more than 40 hours a week playing swtor then pay up or leave... if you spread that $10 across 10 weeks of game time thats 2.5 cents per hour... if you hate the game that much that its a hassle to pay then maybe you need a new game...

 

and who cares about what you were promised... unless this is your first MMO then we all know there are no promises...

[kamed]

MMO's I can think of that have had Expansions/Adventures Packs

 

SWG - June 2003 // Jump To Lightspeed - October 2004 = ~ 1 Year, 4 Months = ~16 Months

EQ - March 1999 // RoK - April 2000 = ~1 Year, 1 Month = ~13 Months

WoW - November 2004 // TBC - January 2007 = ~ 3 Years, 3 Months = ~ 39 Months

TOR - December 2011 // RotHC (AP/Expansion/Whatever) - Spring 2013 = ~ 1 Year, (3 Months - 5 Months) = ~(15 - 17 Months)

Perfect World International - ~September 2008 // The Lost Empire - December 2008 = ~3 Months

EQ 2 - November 2004 // The Bloodline Chronicles (Adventure Pack) - March 2005 // Desert of Flames (Expansion) September 2005 = ~4 Months (Adventure Pack) // ~10 Months (Expansion)

 

==============

 

Basically for the ones I listed, the shortest was ~3 Months (PWI) while the longest was a little over ~3 Years (WoW), so in other words, there really isn't an "Industry Standard" so whether you call it an Adventure Pack or an Expansion, it would still, regardless of whatever name you want to call it, be the first MAJOR Update to the Game as opposed to Patches.

 

You know as valid as your argument looks, a lot of people are still going to argue that the content is small therefore it will take only a short time to make... When until Makeb is release we will know for sure how big or small content (not the size of the planet) of the expansion really is.

[Devlonir]

Each BC zone landmass wise is the size of about three SWTOR planets combined.

Such a great, factual post.. and then you ruin it by saying this.

 

Everything else is a true and factual list though, I applaud the work put into it. But mapsize wise, the average TOR planet equals 2-3 BC zones. And we all know BC zones are actually bigger than most zones in WoW's later expansions.

 

Also, a few of the things you mentioned, like Achievements and the Badges system was not implemented until later in the Burning Crusade life cycle. So they should not count as what you paid for in the initial expansion.

 

--edit--

 

This is how I'd make your list:

 

BC introduced:

 

Ten new levels with new abilities and updated talent trees.

800+ new quests.

New items.

New profession which updated itemization.

Increased previous professions with new patterns.

15 new dungeons.

Introduction of heroic dungeons.

3 new raids, 1 10 man raid with a large amount of bosses and 2 25 man raids with 3 bosses total.

Flying mounts and Druid flight form.

Arenas and Revamped honor system

New battleground

All classes available to both factions

Draeni and Blood elves.

15 new zones total, including 6 new starting zones for the two new races, two of which are new capitol cities, and 1 new capitol city shared by both factions.

New rep factions

Redesign of their stat system.

New mounts

wPvP objectives in both Outlands and Azeroth.

 

 

 

All other things were actually added in later patches, so not part of the initial expansion.

 

Also, the pre-event, though part of the run up to the expansion, could be played by people without the expansion and is therefore not, effectively, a part of it.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Devlonir

[Goretzu]

You know as valid as your argument looks, a lot of people are still going to argue that the content is small therefore it will take only a short time to make... When until Makeb is release we will know for sure how big or small content (not the size of the planet) of the expansion really is.

 

It's difficult to see how they can pack that much more content into a planet the size of Belsavis than is in Belsavis.

 

It's not exactly sparse in Belsavis, and if they crammed much more in it would feel cramped I think.

[LordRahlik]

I hear you and I share your pain. There is two important things that might make you feel better:

 

1 - We don't know what the coming expansion will contain. Perhaps it will be awesome.

 

2 - If the coming 4 "nickel and dime" expansions adds up to more than one $40 expansion and they are valued at $10 each, would you be OK with that? They give us the $40 expansion only spread over 4 different payments and download times?

 

Think about it.

[Goretzu]

I hear you and I share your pain. There is two important things that might make you feel better:

 

1 - We don't know what the coming expansion will contain. Perhaps it will be awesome.

 

2 - If the coming 4 "nickel and dime" expansions adds up to more than one $40 expansion and they are valued at $10 each, would you be OK with that? They give us the $40 expansion only spread over 4 different payments and download times?

 

Think about it.

 

1. We do have a decent idea, they've said.

 

2. The subscriber price is OK.

[Meaneye]

I think thats part of the point people are trying to make. The minor fact that we dont know what it is actually going to contain, and yet they want people to jump right up and pay for it totally blind.

 

And one other poster makes a valid point. Those of us that have "founder" tags paid 60 bucks for what people now get for free (and some paid 150). Why should we have to pay anything for it?

Edited January 11, 2013 by Meaneye

[Invictos]

When they stop making threads titled "I'm feeling nickled and dimed by Makeb".

 

"Nickled and dimed" implies that the amount of any singular fee or charge is insignificant, but that the total experience (the sum of all fees/charges, or perhaps just the character of a service's marketing) feels exploitive.

 

Personally, I don't mind the $10 or $20 for Makeb; it seems like a reasonable price for an expansion or adventure pack or whatever you want to call it. What I'm more concerned about is the $15 I'm slated to pay next month, and the $200+ I've already sunk into the game. I can understand why people are upset by Makeb, not because it costs too much, but because of the game's somewhat rocky history.

 

And yeah, I do think we (we being the subscriber base) are getting nickled and dimed with respect to character customization. For example, the fact that EAWare is pumping out recolored armor sets for the Cartel Market suggests to me that we will either never see a dye option in-game, or that the dye option will be an extraordinarily expensive Cartel-Market-exclusive.

 

That's really disappointing. The fact that Bioware is asking me to buy a relatively cheap expansion without even disclosing the expansion's features or its release date is a mildly annoying, but ultimately incidental problem. The reason I refuse to preorder the expansion isn't that I can't afford it, or that I think the price is unreasonable in a vacuum. On the contrary, I refuse to preorder the expansion because I have no idea if I'll be even the slightest bit interested in playing SWTOR next week, much less in April.