SWTOR's Resolve System or WoW's CC DR's?

[SpaniardInfinity]

If they were to implement a DR for CCs like that, an overhaul of a lot of abilities in skill trees would be necessary. For example, since I'm most familiar with it, my Combat Medic can slow you for 3 seconds every 6 seconds with my Kolto Bomb. That would easily fill your DR on slows in no time at all and it's not as though you can just not use Kolto Bomb. And its not exclusive to that, go look at your skill trees. I won't guarantee it, but I'm pretty sure just about every AC in this game has a slow somewhere in their skill tree attached to one of their debuffs/DoTs.

 

That's not to say a system won't work, just something that would need to be considered.

Edited December 22, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity

[AmphysvenaCorp]

Resolve system is useless. Right now you fight 90% of the time stunned, and the other 10% left you do it movement-impaired. PvP is broken in this game.

[mrekxxx]

resolve might work 1 stun = full resolve for 30 secs... this would be acceptable ...

[Bedivier]

Resolve system works good. Problem is that almost every class has an instant cast AoE CC ability ... how many such abilities are in WoW? very few ... and they know why ... AoE CC should be casted and interruptible, that would increase skillcap. Mashing a button whenever you have cooldown on it , that's just ... well, easy?

Casted AoE CC -> high risk, high reward, less CC in general

Edited December 22, 2012 by Bedivier

[Maanji]

If you haven't read the first thread in this Forum in the last 3 months, read it again. It's called Rome-fu's Resolve Guide. It's not overly complicated and will probably seem repetitive to most of you. I actually came to read it again but thought I'd mention it here, as it calms the rage most of the time. I'm not preaching or whatever. I just think many people haven't noticed it.

 

But after those few crucial times that I think I'm immune to CC and get CC'd, or in cases where my pug team constantly breaks my Awe's or spams their own CC (crappy Huttball games) it makes the most sense. The things that always jump out at me are learning to properly eat stuns and simply not to waste my CC Breaker. We'd all love to be able to rely on pugs and the Resolve system too, but Resolve won't save me if three people are stomping my face and neither will my CC Breaker.

 

Every single player has the ability to break a CC every two minutes with some even less. But most will probably waste it in the first 20 seconds of the WZ and then come here to QQ about Resolve...

 

I know zergs happen. I camp West in Civil War and Novarre too often... and I'll always call myself out if something's my fault. But unless I do something dumb like type something in /guild or /say I try to call out ALL incomings whether it's one or a zerg. Cover your ***; if you get killed and you called out for help before engaging or right after a stealther opened, you shouldn't be in a 1v3 situation for long or help should be near. No reinforcements? Unfortunately, bad players are bad. Yea it sucks but you did your part. That's another conversation though.

 

If you're getting good heals and the healer is safe, eat the stuns and pop some mitigation. Be able to recognize CC icons on your debuff bar and watch the timer. Learn when to effectively use the one ability that everyone has but few understand.

 

Again, I'm not picking a fight, not preaching, etc. But I will admit to ranting more than I wanted...

 

And I'm not 100% sure on these but:

1.) When you popped your PvP Trinket in WoW, didn't it provide a 3~5 second immunity to cc buff (I think someone else mentioned it too)?

 

2.) When you die and rez, your resolve drops quicker because you're out of combat. If it fills and you're alive, it should drain quite slower.

[Maanji]

Resolve system works good. Problem is that almost every class has an instant cast AoE CC ability ... how many such abilities are in WoW? very few ... and they know why ... AoE CC should be casted and interruptible, that would increase skillcap. Mashing a button whenever you have cooldown on it , that's just ... well, easy?

Casted AoE CC -> high risk, high reward, less CC in general

I have an instant AOE CC that breaks on damage and a 3 sec channeled CC, plus Force Leap "stun". I'm also a Watchman, so I have a lot of other abilities with short CD's to manage. Yes, WoW has AOE CC's. You can also DPS through most of WoW's "in combat" stuns. Did you click the link I provided with the DR Categories? I'm not comparing the CC's in WoW and SWTOR. I'm looking at how both games try to keep CC under control.

 

Because I'm on THE Forums, I should probably be snide or something. There is a way to properly convey an opinion without making it sound like gospel, but the Dude abides, so...

 

That's, like, your opinion... Man.

[Rassuro]

I think the SWTOR system is really good, but it definitely needs some adjustments in terms of the numbers. (which abilities are affected in some way by resolve, how much resolve different types of abilities gives, their cooldowns, the cooldown of CC breakers, how fast resolve goes back down, how long CC immunity last for, and so on...)

[wozzisan]

I still think the ~4second stuns should come with a PvP 50% damage reduction

[AMKSED]

WoW's diminishing returns works well with WoW. But I'm not quite sure how well it would work with SWTOR. SWTOR's and WoW's combat system is completely different. I'd even say that SWTOR's combat is even faster than WoW (LOLOLOL). So I don't know how it could even work. The entire combat/CC system would need re-vamped if something needed to be changed. Cause as of right now, if that type of system was put in then healers would be stupid OP.

[AMKSED]

I still think the ~4second stuns should come with a PvP 50% damage reduction

 

That's a bad idea. A healer getting guarded + getting stunned getting a 100% damage reduction and the guardian only taking 25% of that damage. That's just a bad idea.

[wozzisan]

That's a bad idea. A healer getting guarded + getting stunned getting a 100% damage reduction and the guardian only taking 25% of that damage. That's just a bad idea.

 

You can choose NOT to use stun, or stun the other healer while you kill that healer, there are interrupts and pushes, the 50% guarded damage can be redirected before damage reduction on the receiver is applied.

 

Ever tried playing a healer without a guard? Didn't think so.

 

Damage reduction on stunned victim is a great idea.

[WaywardOne]

Anything is better than the resolve system that we have.

[Darkfalstaff]

Let me say the CC/Resolve/DR balance is designed by computer monkeys who learned their skills from a Chinese mail order catalog.

 

It's ridiculous.

 

Get rid of the stupid amount of CC and unbreakable stuns that characters are susceptible. No CC in the game should continue to be in effect while you're getting hit.

 

Fix it you lazy bastards Bioware.

[Jarfunkz]

roots and snares need to be taken into account... depending on their duration and percentage...

[Briljin]

A DR system like what WoW has wouldn't be a bad thing but it would require EA to take a look at builds that are designed around using stuns to control their target for both offensive and defensive reasons.

[Darkfalstaff]

alll stuns, roots, snare, knockdowns, sleep darts, slow movies, slippery ice, shackles, straight jackets...whatever you want to call it---if you take damage they should break and you should not be able to be re-controlled, slowed, etc. for a decent period of time. Period, done. Edited December 23, 2012 by Darkfalstaff

[LordExozone]

I don't mind the resolve system, it works well enough, but the white resolve bar currently drains too fast. In addition, all CC should be on a standard 1 minute cooldown. Things like the AOE stunbubble on an effective 20 sec. cooldown, the juggernaut AOE mez on a 45 sec cooldown (iirc) and others like it are just over the top.

[AMKSED]

You can choose NOT to use stun, or stun the other healer while you kill that healer, there are interrupts and pushes, the 50% guarded damage can be redirected before damage reduction on the receiver is applied.

 

Ever tried playing a healer without a guard? Didn't think so.

 

Damage reduction on stunned victim is a great idea.

 

Yes I have played a healer with a guard. And I'm sorry but you have to stun a healer to kill him even if he isn't being guarded. The idea was bad and wouldn't be balanced.

[AMKSED]

So many people typing so many ideas that would literally break PvP.....

[NoTomorrow]

They can inrease the cc CDs. 45 sec for intimidating roar is plain stupid for example. All aoe mezz should be on a 1,5 min CD Aat least, including the flashbang. Next the asassin could use a CC review. Having spike and or low slash from deception is a little too much for a class. Edited December 23, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Smashbrother]

WoW's answer to chain Fears, Polymorphs, Stuns, Roots (and any of the billions of effects that made you lose control of your character) was adding DR's in PvP.

 

 

Kinda sorta maybe like the resolve bar, minus "OMG WHY AM I STUNNED" moments. But it worked the same every time. There was no questioning it unless you didn't know your stuff and followed up with a CC on the same category. The first CC would be full duration, then a 50% duration reduction, 75% duration reduction, and then you became immune for 15 seconds following the end of the effect. Even though my Rogue QQ'd 1000 tears, I learned not to rely so much on CC. More importantly, I also learned WHEN to CC.

 

If you didn't click the link above, there are 11 shared categories of CC DR's in WoW and a bunch that have only their own DR. I watch as an enemy grabs the Huttball and is immediately white barred. But there are times I swear that bar is full and falling... and get CC'd in the fire or whatever.

 

Could this be a viable way to control crowd control? What about knock-backs? Or friendly/enemy pulls? What about Dirty Kicking female chars????

 

Now, on to PvP's next biggest problem: can i pls haz my adrenals.... OR let me craft some damn WZ Med-pacs

 

WoW's ****** DR system allows you to be CCed continuously for much longer than in SWTOR.

 

10+5+2.5 = 17.5s of CC, at which point they can use an entirely new "category" of CC to chain CC you for another 17.5s, at which point they can revert to using the original CC chain (DR resets after 15s). For example, polymorph and fear are on diff DR categories, so a mage and lock can CC a person continuously forever. This may have changed since I played years ago, but when I was playing it was possible to do this.

 

In TOR it's 8s of stuns or 16s of mezz (not counting bubble stuns since those are bugged and not giving proper resolve), and you're immune for however long you're white barred. You cannot be CCed forever in TOR.

 

I love how people cry about how bad CC is in TOR and say how good WoW had it because it's so ironic. Stuff like poly, fear, entangling roots have no CD so those classes can CC people left and right ALL DAY YO. At least in TOR, every CC has a cd (except stealth mez).

Edited December 23, 2012 by Smashbrother

[wozzisan]

Yes I have played a healer with a guard. And I'm sorry but you have to stun a healer to kill him even if he isn't being guarded. The idea was bad and wouldn't be balanced.

 

I healer is only strong if he is playing with a team that is looking after that healer. A healer trying to heal a group of people who only care about moar deeeps will die alone... without even being stunned, guarded or not.

[Neglience]

they need to do something about CC its just way to much at the moment, but did they ever changed something like this in the past ? Edited December 23, 2012 by Neglience

[Anishor]

AoC's DR system works pretty well.

[Maanji]

WoW's ****** DR system allows you to be CCed continuously for much longer than in SWTOR.

 

10+5+2.5 = 17.5s of CC, at which point they can use an entirely new "category" of CC to chain CC you for another 17.5s, at which point they can revert to using the original CC chain (DR resets after 15s). For example, polymorph and fear are on diff DR categories, so a mage and lock can CC a person continuously forever. This may have changed since I played years ago, but when I was playing it was possible to do this.

 

In TOR it's 8s of stuns or 16s of mezz (not counting bubble stuns since those are bugged and not giving proper resolve), and you're immune for however long you're white barred. You cannot be CCed forever in TOR.

 

I love how people cry about how bad CC is in TOR and say how good WoW had it because it's so ironic. Stuff like poly, fear, entangling roots have no CD so those classes can CC people left and right ALL DAY YO. At least in TOR, every CC has a cd (except stealth mez).

I agree that in WoW Arenas, comp was just about everything (I remember RMS was called African Turtle Cleave or some crap like that xD ). And part of WoW PvP was learning which CC's you could chain and what classes had them. So cookie cutter comps like RMP, dr00d + any 2 DPS, etc, etc, were created.

 

I think the 11 different categories of CC is excessive. Just maybe 4?

-CC that does not break on damage

-CC that breaks on damage

-Out of combat CC (lift, mezzzz, etc.)

-Knock backs and roots (imho)

 

The way WoW dealt with CC left wide open cracks for many classes/comps. It was 100% consistent though. That was what I was trying to put emphasis on. But to me, the posts that catch my attention are:

 

-Resolve works relatively well if CC is coordinated and you know how/when to use your CC Breaker. Strategic deaths? Eating stuns?

-Lower the CD on CC breakers (probably the easiest to implement, but is it the best?)

-DR's are consistent and reliable. Resolve is ______ (insert 4 letter word).

 

We aren't even close to the plethora of CC's WoW has, so we won't follow in their pitfalls; no cracks in the system. We DON't have ARENAS. We don't even have 8man Q's unless we're doing rated WZ's!

 

Like I said, I just want to hear what the consensus is. I'm not saying WoW's DR's are better than the Resolve System nor the opposite. I like how WoW approached it but the end result was re-rolling a FotM or the death of some specs/classes/comps. Yes, there were the infamous that could roll whatever comp and still reach 2000+. But I don't play WoW anymore. I don't give a good gawd dam wut they're doing now

 

For now, I'm stuck with good 'ol Resolute (my CC breaker) and the Resolve system. I think the lower CD on CC Breakers may be an easy patch. But I think if the PvP team does it right, DR's could be the best answer. Just keep things SIMPLE, imho. What color is the red Tauntaun?

Edited December 23, 2012 by Maanji
typos