Truth about SWTOR's Competitive PvP and how to fix it.

[Venlo]

Arena - the phantom menace for swtor players^^

 

The raw damage output may be somewhat balanced (theoretically) but the abilities are not, that's for sure. Nevertheless, how it would work is something we can only find out in reality I think.

 

The problem is, Arena games tore things apart in WoW and when it came out it was interesting, but bad. Can't most of you remember the fact that there were some awesome class combinations that ruled the seasons on and on. I have heard that now, years after the release of Burning Crusade it has reached a point where people say its balanced.

But I don't think SWTOR has so much time - and the developers know that too and they do not want to copy paste too much.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Venlo

[KettleBelll]

Players that aren't talented enough to Set Focus Target and Assist Focus Target shouldn't be allowed to make threads called "SWTOR's Competitive PvP and how to fix it."

 

It blows my mind. L2P the advanced game before posting.

[DarthMaulUK]

Players that aren't talented enough to Set Focus Target and Assist Focus Target shouldn't be allowed to make threads called "SWTOR's Competitive PvP and how to fix it."

 

It blows my mind. L2P the advanced game before posting.

 

I just had to trollololol this because clearly you haven't seen the OPs videos. Now please, crawl back under that stone

[KettleBelll]

I just had to trollololol this because clearly you haven't seen the OPs videos. Now please, crawl back under that stone

 

I've seen a few, and never once have I seen her set a focus target, and assist.... ever.

[Jorojus]

Players that aren't talented enough to Set Focus Target and Assist Focus Target shouldn't be allowed to make threads called "SWTOR's Competitive PvP and how to fix it."

 

It blows my mind. L2P the advanced game before posting.

 

You can let nubs use assist focus target because they dont know who to attack if a good player has Set focus target on.

But a decent player just knows who to attack and doesn't bother with these targeting systems.

[Xinika]

The solution is stop expecting great things from this game. PvE is boring and mundane and PvP is not competitive and never has been nor will be. The focus now is cartel coins.

 

The sooner you realize the sooner you can stop making pointless threads about something we all know and have been dealing with since launch.

So we should just settle for mediocrity? I fail to see how threads like this can be pointless. It's feedback. What on earth is so wrong with giving feedback?

 

If you choose to settle for what it is then that is your perspective. Calling a thread useless because it doesn't share your aspect, doesn't mean it is.

 

If you can speak up, then speak up. I see no reason not too.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Xinika

[Xinika]

Also in a recent interview Rob Hinkle did state The 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 concept will be coming soon. so that's a bit of good news to.

I knew, logically, it would only be a matter of time before such implementation would take place.

[fungihoujo]

Cross server should be in for competitive/premades at least.

 

But I think BW realizes the pvp isn't balanced or has enough interest to even be called competitive- we're going into our first expansion still in pre-season 1... and with 5 more levels they'll have to stay in pre-season while they fix the imbalances that the new level 55 scaling/abilities have put into the game.

 

No- I don't think we're ever going to see actual competitive pvp be a big part of SWTOR.

[-Mythix-]

You can let nubs use assist focus target because they dont know who to attack if a good player has Set focus target on.

But a decent player just knows who to attack and doesn't bother with these targeting systems.

 

^ Lol I enjoy playing against people like you, easy ELO.

[Xinika]

Cross server should be in for competitive/premades at least.

 

But I think BW realizes the pvp isn't balanced or has enough interest to even be called competitive- we're going into our first expansion still in pre-season 1... and with 5 more levels they'll have to stay in pre-season while they fix the imbalances that the new level 55 scaling/abilities have put into the game.

 

No- I don't think we're ever going to see actual competitive pvp be a big part of SWTOR.

 

One could try.

[madtycoon]

Players that aren't talented enough to Set Focus Target and Assist Focus Target shouldn't be allowed to make threads called "SWTOR's Competitive PvP and how to fix it."

 

It blows my mind. L2P the advanced game before posting.

 

Not that i disagree, but up until recently, using abilities off the focus target was extremely buggy and would sometimes completely bug out your targetting until you relog.

 

Its also not designed well at all. Without macros to set certain keybinds to focus abilites (example bind R to interrupt/shift R to focus interrupt) you're left with their focus modifier which you can't bind to shift/alt or ctrl. This leads to unnatural keybind combinations for focus abilities (for example: A+R is my focus interrupt in this game) and it is annoying as **** not being able to customize my focus binds like you can in WoW.

 

Also with focus, its hard to tell which reticle is your target and which is your focus target. I really wish they would give an option to remove the reticles from the focus target. But probably the biggest deterent to using focus for interrupting/CC/etc. is that everytime you set someone to focus, you lose them as your target.

 

When I play WoW, whenever I target someone and I don't have anything on focus, I immediately will set them to focus, even if they are going to be my main target. You can't do that in this game without constant wasted keystrokes, because even if you bind target last target (which everyone should have bound) you still have to waste a keystroke retargetting someone every time you set your focus target. Combined this with how bad the targetting system is (I.E. no clickable nameplates, cluster**** warzones and constant zoom ins) I don't blame people for not utilizing the focus frame.

[Rhyn]

I think another issue with PvP is the amount of burst ATM. Burst alone is a big reason why some classes are not wanted or desired in rated WZ's. Personally i thought the balance and PvP in general was much better before 1.2. Ya it wasn't perfect and there a were a few things that need to be looked at but it was much more fun IMO.

[Nijraw]

Not a bad idea but I'd have to disagree on 1v1. Such balance is impossible.

Not really Xinika, maybe in a game with dedicated healing like Swtor & WoW, the closest MMO to date that is balanced around 1v1 is Guild Wars 2, and as a result the group PvP blows any MMO out the water to date, but in order for Swtor to even follow there lead they would pretty much have to kill dedicated healing in PvP and that's not going to happen, so yes in a way it is almost impossible to balance, in this game.

 

However I do like your post and I agree with most and I hope Bioware takes a look at this threat given the amount of replies and your reputation with the Swtor community.

[ArchangelLBC]

Not that i disagree, but up until recently, using abilities off the focus target was extremely buggy and would sometimes completely bug out your targetting until you relog.

 

Its also not designed well at all. Without macros to set certain keybinds to focus abilites (example bind R to interrupt/shift R to focus interrupt) you're left with their focus modifier which you can't bind to shift/alt or ctrl. This leads to unnatural keybind combinations for focus abilities (for example: A+R is my focus interrupt in this game) and it is annoying as **** not being able to customize my focus binds like you can in WoW.

 

Also with focus, its hard to tell which reticle is your target and which is your focus target. I really wish they would give an option to remove the reticles from the focus target. But probably the biggest deterent to using focus for interrupting/CC/etc. is that everytime you set someone to focus, you lose them as your target.

 

When I play WoW, whenever I target someone and I don't have anything on focus, I immediately will set them to focus, even if they are going to be my main target. You can't do that in this game without constant wasted keystrokes, because even if you bind target last target (which everyone should have bound) you still have to waste a keystroke retargetting someone every time you set your focus target. Combined this with how bad the targetting system is (I.E. no clickable nameplates, cluster**** warzones and constant zoom ins) I don't blame people for not utilizing the focus frame.

 

 

From a DPS standpoint though it's as simple as

Set Focus Target

Acquire Focus Target's Target.

 

That's all you need really, and then you just became better at focus firing people.

[Leafy_Bug]

We want cross-server stun fests plz!! I am getting tired of being stun locked in ranked by teams from my own server, I would like the epicly awesome new experience of being stun locked by people from other servers

[Xinika]

Not really Xinika, maybe in a game with dedicated healing like Swtor & WoW, the closest MMO to date that is balanced around 1v1 is Guild Wars 2, and as a result the group PvP blows any MMO out the water to date, but in order for Swtor to even follow there lead they would pretty much have to kill dedicated healing in PvP and that's not going to happen, so yes in a way it is almost impossible to balance, in this game.

 

However I do like your post and I agree with most and I hope Bioware takes a look at this threat given the amount of replies and your reputation with the Swtor community.

GW2's development was based more around formulating its PvP. Especially for 1v1 encounters. SWTOR, not really. Such would take time and money to reevaluate and redo the system to match those standards. But, yes, I was referring to SWTOR's 1v1 balance specifically.

 

Not that i disagree, but up until recently, using abilities off the focus target was extremely buggy and would sometimes completely bug out your targetting until you relog.

 

Its also not designed well at all. Without macros to set certain keybinds to focus abilites (example bind R to interrupt/shift R to focus interrupt) you're left with their focus modifier which you can't bind to shift/alt or ctrl. This leads to unnatural keybind combinations for focus abilities (for example: A+R is my focus interrupt in this game) and it is annoying as **** not being able to customize my focus binds like you can in WoW.

 

Also with focus, its hard to tell which reticle is your target and which is your focus target. I really wish they would give an option to remove the reticles from the focus target. But probably the biggest deterent to using focus for interrupting/CC/etc. is that everytime you set someone to focus, you lose them as your target.

 

When I play WoW, whenever I target someone and I don't have anything on focus, I immediately will set them to focus, even if they are going to be my main target. You can't do that in this game without constant wasted keystrokes, because even if you bind target last target (which everyone should have bound) you still have to waste a keystroke retargetting someone every time you set your focus target. Combined this with how bad the targetting system is (I.E. no clickable nameplates, cluster**** warzones and constant zoom ins) I don't blame people for not utilizing the focus frame.

Really simple why I don't use it. It's buggy and inefficient. I tend to have an unorthodox playstyle.

I didn't use focus target in WoW either. That didn't stop me from getting Glad.

 

I think another issue with PvP is the amount of burst ATM. Burst alone is a big reason why some classes are not wanted or desired in rated WZ's. Personally i thought the balance and PvP in general was much better before 1.2. Ya it wasn't perfect and there a were a few things that need to be looked at but it was much more fun IMO.

It feels as if once a certain amount of damage is put out, the receiving team's chances of surviving grows drastically low. Again, skill is lost here because it's more of overwhelming the other team.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Xinika

[darthnish]

i would love this, so much,never played wow so i dont know how the 2v2/3v3 arenas but i come from aion and they added arenas a while back and it was such a blast, granted they were 10 man FFA or 2 v2 v2 v2 it was the most fun ive had in pvp, esp the 2 v2 v2 v2 ones used to roll one supprtheal/dps and a full heal char, out last everyone and win by attrition and co ordinated FF when cds were up, most fun ive had pvping in that game,

 

IF swtor could even capture a little of that, i would sub for life.

[madtycoon]

Really simple why I don't use it. It's buggy and inefficient. I tend to have an unorthodox playstyle.

I didn't use focus target in WoW either. That didn't stop me from getting Glad.

 

Heh, well the first season I got glad, I clicked 90% of my abilities. It really doesn't mean anything, especially with how long the game has been out. You aren't going to be skill capped in wow arena without using arena 1-3 or focus. As much of a hassle it is to use in this game, focus frame is still going to be better, eventhough it might not reward as much as it does in WoW.

 

Say you're facing 2 people and you're on one target and someone is casting near you. Now you're obviously going to need to interrupt that cast. If you don't have him on focus or even utilize focus, you have to tab target interrupt (which is off global) and then target last target and attack or whatever (on global). As fast as you do this, it will always be faster to use the focus frame.

 

Now swtor doesn't have white attacks, so you could do this in between globals, but sometimes you could interrupt a cast at the end of a global, leading to dps downtime. I mean this is a really really small difference, but it is better to use a focus frame.

 

You can even go as far as saying, players who use the focus frame in this game are more skilled, because like I said in my previous post, it is pretty horribly designed and so unnatural to use binds like A+R. I don't play enough to have it down yet on all my CC, but I know when I do, I will be better.

[Xinika]

Heh, well the first season I got glad, I clicked 90% of my abilities. It really doesn't mean anything, especially with how long the game has been out. You aren't going to be skill capped in wow arena without using arena 1-3 or focus. As much of a hassle it is to use in this game, focus frame is still going to be better, eventhough it might not reward as much as it does in WoW.

 

Say you're facing 2 people and you're on one target and someone is casting near you. Now you're obviously going to need to interrupt that cast. If you don't have him on focus or even utilize focus, you have to tab target interrupt (which is off global) and then target last target and attack or whatever (on global). As fast as you do this, it will always be faster to use the focus frame.

 

Now swtor doesn't have white attacks, so you could do this in between globals, but sometimes you could interrupt a cast at the end of a global, leading to dps downtime. I mean this is a really really small difference, but it is better to use a focus frame.

 

You can even go as far as saying, players who use the focus frame in this game are more skilled, because like I said in my previous post, it is pretty horribly designed and so unnatural to use binds like A+R. I don't play enough to have it down yet on all my CC, but I know when I do, I will be better.

I see your point. Still matter of preference I suppose.

[KettleBelll]

I see your point. Still matter of preference I suppose.

 

 

You might as well mouse click, keyboard turn, and drink coffee while you fight. If you aren't playing with assisting and focus targeting, you are hitting yourself with self inflicted stuns while you trying to help burn a target.

 

Sooo much time wasted. Go ahead though keep up with the same argument that mouse clickers use "I'm just as good this way, this is how I play and I'm the awesomest."

 

 

Which is cool and all if that's how you want to play. It just unqualifies you from being a 'expert' on your class and writing threads about ***Competitive*** PvP.

[Xinika]

You might as well mouse click, keyboard turn, and drink coffee while you fight. If you aren't playing with assisting and focus targeting, you are hitting yourself with self inflicted stuns while you trying to help burn a target.

One of the best teams on my server has key members that backpedal and I often see them do stupid "non-pro" things, but it doesn't stop them from winning any. Apples and Oranges argument. Lackluster at best.

 

Which is cool and all if that's how you want to play. It just unqualifies you from being a 'expert' on your class and writing threads about ***Competitive*** PvP.

Suddenly using focus frames makes one qualified? I disagree, but, you are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how simple minded it may be.

 

Thank you for bumping the thread.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Xinika

[Xerain]

You might as well mouse click, keyboard turn, and drink coffee while you fight. If you aren't playing with assisting and focus targeting, you are hitting yourself with self inflicted stuns while you trying to help burn a target.

 

Sooo much time wasted. Go ahead though keep up with the same argument that mouse clickers use "I'm just as good this way, this is how I play and I'm the awesomest."

 

 

Which is cool and all if that's how you want to play. It just unqualifies you from being a 'expert' on your class and writing threads about ***Competitive*** PvP.

 

This post^ has been QUOTED FOR EMPHASIS. Re-read this guys and girls of the pvp forums! Please for me? There it is^^^

[KettleBelll]

One of the best teams on my server has key members that backpedal and I often see them do stupid "non-pro" things, but it doesn't stop them from winning any.

 

PvE server right?

 

Suddenly using focus frames makes one qualified? I disagree, but, you are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how simple minded it may be.

 

Hey now, nothing wrong with being simple minded. If you want to be a Competitive player, you should save time and move faster when you can save time and move faster.

 

SWTOR put in options like 'self target modifier' and 'focus target' for a reason. Learn to use the advanced tools of the game. Pretty simple eh?

[Xinika]

Hey now, nothing wrong with being simple minded. If you want to be a Competitive player, you should save time and move faster when you can save time and move faster.

I'm not doubting that, I'm simply stating what works for you - works differently for me. This whole argument of FF being the cause of whether or not I'm 'qualified' (really?) to write such a post or even speak on behalf of my class is extremely illogical and furthermore, unrelated to the OP. Did you even read the OP?

 

FF, in this game, doesn't increase a player's skillcap in the slightest.

 

At this point, your posts seem to be more of a personal attack than anything related otherwise.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=571515&page=6

 

Post #58

Edited December 22, 2012 by Xinika

[Xerain]

I'm not doubting that, I'm simply stating what works for you - works differently for me. This whole argument of FF being the cause of whether or not I'm 'qualified' (really?) to write such a post or even speak on behalf of my class is extremely illogical and furthermore, unrelated to the OP. Did you even read the OP?

 

FF, in this game, doesn't increase a player's skillcap in the slightest.

 

At this point, your posts seem to be more of a personal attack than anything related otherwise.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=571515&page=6

 

Post #58

 

Why don't you sit down a team of 8 that doesn't use focus fire against a team of 8 that does use focus fire and see who wins the match.

 

This game is full team based and it requires everyone to work together to get the objective done and it takes skill to work as a team. So yes Focus Fire does increase the skill cap.

 

Please, applaud for me, I did a wonderful job.