smash/force sweep spec is faceroll in pvp

[Ramtar]

The problem is that no one can deal with four warriors aoe'ing for a good 30K so they need to either:

 

*Nerf said spec

 

OR

 

*Put a cap on how many of each AC there can be on a team. This would help balancing as a whole. No more 6 sages vs 6 powertechs games and crap like that. I rather wait 5 minutes extra for a game with the potential of being good than being rolled/steamrolling due to the teams being completely off.

 

IMO the best would be for the dev to fix the WZ matchmaking to have a 2 Healer/3 Tank/3 DPS team setup:

 

* 2 Healer: Sage/Sorcerer/Commando/Mercenary/Scoundrel/Operative

* 3 Tank: Shadow/Assassin/Guardian/Juggernaut/Vanguard/Powertech

* 3 DPS: Sentinel/Marauder/Gunslinger/Sniper

 

This way is that you will only face a max number of 3 Advance Classes in the Tank or DPS.

 

Sure nerfing Rage/Focus in PvP still possible, but the ramifications on the nerfing also applies to PvE.

[LarryRow]

No way is is smash/sweep "faceroll" in pvp! It's a 3-button spec, so unless you can roll your face with extreme precision...

 

-Shii-Cho Mastery's armor penetration has been increased to 15% per point.

 

That's the only change actually increasing the damage done by Smash, and it should be reverted. Everything else is resources or cooldowns or other skills.

 

Tank classes currently own this game and it needs to be addressed in the next patch

 

lol at calling dps guardians and powertechs "tank" class. They are just as squishy as any other pure dps. Unless you're talking about the infamous 31/31/31 that is able to switch to Soresu when taking hits and switch to Shii-Cho when attacking.

[JustinxDuff]

IMO the best would be for the dev to fix the WZ matchmaking to have a 2 Healer/3 Tank/3 DPS team setup:

 

* 2 Healer: Sage/Sorcerer/Commando/Mercenary/Scoundrel/Operative

* 3 Tank: Shadow/Assassin/Guardian/Juggernaut/Vanguard/Powertech

* 3 DPS: Sentinel/Marauder/Gunslinger/Sniper

 

This way is that you will only face a max number of 3 Advance Classes in the Tank or DPS.

 

Sure nerfing Rage/Focus in PvP still possible, but the ramifications on the nerfing also applies to PvE.

 

No. The problem is CLASS BALANCE not warzone structuring.

[Ramtar]

No. The problem is CLASS BALANCE not warzone structuring.

 

the only Class Balance in this game are Class balanced with their mirror Class.

[Solarenergy]

PT/Vanguards are FINE now. Don't nerf us MORE. We got ALL our skills range reduced to 10m. We are fine.

 

I have a level 22 vanguard, and every time I play a warzone, I do a lot of damage without even really trying. I think that's the main issue is that some people think their dps output is a bit too high. Although it's kind of fun seeing those dps numbers on the screen and how fast you can melt someone's HP, I just don't really enjoy playing vanguard as much as I do the other classes I play. I don't really know what it is, but I just don't find it as fun as playing sniper or assassin or sorc. Personally just not a class I have fun with but I don't think it needs a big nerf. Pyro PT's and vanguards go down quite fast so it's a tradeoff. They get to do big damage, but are pretty squishy overall.

[heechJunzi]

I am/was one of the best combat sentinel on my server, breaking 600 dps single-target while pugging. But I've also switched to focus on some maps, because it's simply impossible not to. We are talking a 150-200 increase in DPS, not to mention bigger burst + utility in fighting guarded healers.

 

IMO, focus is clearly OP. There were constant complaints about sentinels even before 1.4... And now you boosted my damage by 30%?

Edited December 19, 2012 by heechJunzi

[Royox]

I have a level 22 vanguard, and every time I play a warzone, I do a lot of damage without even really trying. I think that's the main issue is that some people think their dps output is a bit too high. Although it's kind of fun seeing those dps numbers on the screen and how fast you can melt someone's HP, I just don't really enjoy playing vanguard as much as I do the other classes I play. I don't really know what it is, but I just don't find it as fun as playing sniper or assassin or sorc. Personally just not a class I have fun with but I don't think it needs a big nerf. Pyro PT's and vanguards go down quite fast so it's a tradeoff. They get to do big damage, but are pretty squishy overall.

 

So? I facerrolled EVERYBODY when leveling up my Slinger....and now at lvl 50 I can't kill a single ****.

 

With my vanguard? The same. While leveling he was the fking beast of the WZ (befor 30m range nerf) now, full War Hero, Big numbers? Where. Everybody has bubbles, shields, saber wards, stealth and skills that can dispel my fire...so where's the "OP vanguard"? We are the "rhino" class. We attack 1 target, try to kill him, then die. I finish almos all my encounters with other melees at 20% hp.

[Solarenergy]

So? I facerrolled EVERYBODY when leveling up my Slinger....and now at lvl 50 I can't kill a single ****.

 

With my vanguard? The same. While leveling he was the fking beast of the WZ (befor 30m range nerf) now, full War Hero, Big numbers? Where. Everybody has bubbles, shields, saber wards, stealth and skills that can dispel my fire...so where's the "OP vanguard"? We are the "rhino" class. We attack 1 target, try to kill him, then die. I finish almos all my encounters with other melees at 20% hp.

 

I never said they need to be nerfed, in fact I actually pointed out that they really don't have much survivability at all which counters the huge dps numbers they are able to produce. And I know that at level 50, everything changes. Snipers are the best example of this. Kings of under-50 PVP, but once you get to 50 it gets really hard to survive long enough to do half the damage you once did, since you find that people in level 50 PVP won't ignore you and let you sit in a corner having a field day like you once did. The only class that in my experience has gotten ten times better in 50 PVP is the healer sorc. Was extremely squishy at lower levels, but now at 50, it's a very solid class to play and can be the biggest asset to your team.

[Mindwreck]

smash/force sweep spec needs to be nerfed into the ground. Powertech/vanguards need to be looked at as well. Tank classes currently own this game and it needs to be addressed in the next patch. Oh and also while they are at it, fix scoundrel/operative dps as well as commando/mercenary dps. This balance is so out of whack I can't believe the devs think this is even remotely acceptable.

 

Please, please will people stop saying fix scoundrel dps. Maybe for pve, idk (didnt know pve existed in this game.). Scoundrels are at a very good place right now. They have a very high learning curve, and in the right hands are a beast on the battlefield.

[Rabelle]

I must say, I almost feel bad for the Juggs... Here they have been happily smashing people's faces in since day 1 without much complaints on the forums.

 

Sure, every now and then someone has voiced the notion that it hurts quite well when on the receiving end but they have always been countered with statements like "they're a one trick pony" or "how often do you see one anyways?" At which point the poster shrugged and said "yeah, you're probably right".

 

Then BW found out that Maras only have 2 really good trees so they buffed their version of Rage (with some buffs landing on Juggs lap in the sheer excitement) and now we have Ragers flying left and right with endless forum complaints as a result. In the end, Juggs will probably be victims of collateral damage when BW finally caves in and nerfs the spec.

 

Then again it's BW, when it comes to warriors they only seem to nerf things that no one has complained about, ever.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Rabelle

[RogueNights]

I find it somewhat odd that the OP brings up he plays a sage.. Its somewhat discredits everything you say when your rolling probably the 1st or 2nd most fotm class right now which everyone complains about because it pretty much effs melee classes with downright disgusting amounts of cc, and then… your topic is about how op a melee class… Literally makes me want to cry..

[Capt_Beers]

LOL

 

 

VG internal damage instant cast railshot resets and insta dot on spammable attack.

Mando ranged damage 1.5 sec or 3 sec cast railshot resets and no insta dot on standard attack

 

Yes I have both full WH at 50. I stopped playing my VG as its presently a faceroll spec or don't bother with any other tree. I'd rather be known as a well played mando than just another OP VG.

 

To be fair you don't have to wait the whole 3 sec. channel on Full Auto/Unload to reset HiB/RS. It procs right away.

[Mozivicus]

Just wondering if there are any plans in the works to make expertise reduce chance to be crit and/or crit damage taken? I have 1300~ expertise yet consistently get obliterated on my sage by bunny hoppers. The average damage taken is between 4-5k, which is bad enough since i only have about 17k hps, but i just had a warzone where a Smash crit hit me for 7300+. 7300+...And that's not just to me, but everyone near me too... No other class has anything even nearly approaching that. A look into this would be much appreciated.

 

<waves hand slowly across the view of the OP>

This is not the spec you are looking to nerf

<waves hand slowly back across the view of the OP>

[DarkSaberMaster]

Here is a question to ponder on. Rage/Focus has done the same amount of damage since day 1. So why is the damage so OP all of a sudden? They reworked focus/rage management for quicker sweeps.

 

Lol. I know right? I'm doing the same damage I was doing before the update and people are crying about it now. Funny how when on the Sentinel boards, if you said you rolled Focus spec, you were laughed at and told how bad you were for playing a fail spec. Now that everyone is playing it realized what the rest of us Smash/Sweep users already knew since ever, now people want to cry and whine about it. Lol. I hope it continues. I love the tears it's causing. I haven't had this much forum entertainment in a long time :-)

[JustinxDuff]

Please, please will people stop saying fix scoundrel dps. Maybe for pve, idk (didnt know pve existed in this game.). Scoundrels are at a very good place right now. They have a very high learning curve, and in the right hands are a beast on the battlefield.

 

Scoundrel/ops dps is not up to par, I am sorry. Once they open they are a sitting duck.

[xContex]

If you don't call this an increase in damage I think you have something to work on..

 

-Overpower has been redesigned. It now gives Assault, Battering Assault, Vicious Slash, Force Scream, and Vicious Throw a 50% chance per point to reduce the active cooldown of Smash and Obliterate by .5 seconds per point.

-Brutality now additionally affects Vicious Throw.

-Saber Strength now additionally affects Vicious Throw.

-Shockwave: Stacks of Shockwave now additionally reduce the Rage cost of Smash by 12.5% per point per stack.

-Shii-Cho Mastery's armor penetration has been increased to 15% per point.

 

Please please PLEASE read your own post before telling me this non-sense. We got an overall 10% increase in armor pen (when fully talented) which doesn't really affect light armor classes as much as you think. It definitely helps with heavy armor classes though I'll give you that much. Also, reducing the CD on smash doesn't increase its base damage. We are talking about 7k sweeps, not the frequency of sweeps.

 

Secondly, as PoliteAssassin stated 1 smasher isn't an issue. its the combination of 3-4 that it becomes a problem which is why bioware shouldn't nerf smash. They instead should change the mechanics to prevent group stacking. I posted this suggestion in the other whiner thread but I'll post it here too. Implement this change to force sweep/smash:

 

Target player affected by smash has a 20% damage reduction to each subsequent smash [stacks up to 5 stacks, lasts 5 seconds][Resets the timer if smashed while buff is active]

What does this do? Well you cannot simply send 5 smashers in 1 area and blast everyone apart, it actually requires coordination. This also doesn't reduce the effectiveness of smashers, it only controls the issue of stacking them which is the ONLY issue.

 

This is why I asked everyone to ponder about it. Because it really is an obvious change.

 

Lastly, if Bioware does decide to change smash, for the LOVE OF GOD rebuff vigilance so it isn't useless in PVP. That spec was much more fun and rewarding.

Edited December 19, 2012 by xContex

[NoFishing]

But the problem isn't the necessarily the spec, its having people stack 3-4-5 of these in a warzone.

 

Exactly this. My favorite was in a Voidstar with a couple of sentinels, a guardian, a couple of sages, a scoundrel, and a commando or two. Overall, a good mix of classes, in decent gear. Not one had less than 1200 exp. Up against a team of 1 operative, 1 powertech, and 6 smash mara/juggs. On first attack we run up the middle to delay committing to a direction as long as possible. All the smashies come and kill half the team in 2 seconds flat. The remainder is quickly dealt with, and we are pushed all the way to fighting near our spawn platform. They didn't even leave anyone near the doors, they didn't have to. The few times someone headed for a door, they were smashed into oblivion before they got half way there.

Edited December 19, 2012 by NoFishing

[PoliteAssasin]

Scoundrel/ops dps is not up to par, I am sorry. Once they open they are a sitting duck.

 

Not true. Scoundrel/operative dps is fine. The only thing that should be addressed is the poor energy management. As he said, there is a learning curve. Very few actually know how to play the class correctly.

[Mindwreck]

Scoundrel/ops dps is not up to par, I am sorry. Once they open they are a sitting duck.

 

No way dude, you have not played Scrapper long enough to know. It's probably one of the more difficult specs to master. I have logged about 1500 WZ matches as a Scrapper and still learn something new about the spec every day it seems.

[PoliteAssasin]

Exactly this. My favorite was in a Voidstar with a couple of sentinels, a guardian, a couple of sages, a scoundrel, and a commando or two. Overall, a good mix of classes, in decent gear. Not one had less than 1200 exp. Up against a team of 1 operative, 1 powertech, and 6 smash mara/juggs. On first attack we run up the middle to delay committing to a direction as long as possible. All the smashies come and kill half the team in 2 seconds flat. The remainder is quickly dealt with, and we are pushed all the way to fighting near our spawn platform. They didn't even leave anyone near the doors, they didn't have to. The few times someone headed for a door, they were smashed into oblivion before they got half way there.

 

Yep. As I said I was doing it with the Context/Scyn (above) and another bomber yesterday. It was ridiculously easy to clear groups of players. I'm a watchman guy, the other was a vigilance, and as Scyn said so is he. But as long as this OP spec is around, there's no choice but to use it. Smash, or be smashed. :/

[JustinxDuff]

No way dude, you have not played Scrapper long enough to know. It's probably one of the more difficult specs to master. I have logged about 1500 WZ matches as a Scrapper and still learn something new about the spec every day it seems.

 

I haven't played one but my guildie has since launch. I'll take his work for it.

[Redpaw]

I think the issue is group stacking, but guess what any group of 3-4 people can rape 1 person easy, 3-4 aimed shots dead, 4 rail shot procs dead, what people are mad about is that juggs can just jump in and smash noobs, they mad cause they cordinated, if your fighting 4 people you will die its gg end of story, and smart people focus dps to kil someone

[Royox]

Goku is a Smash monkey D:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UdFieymPdw

[xContex]

I think the issue is group stacking, but guess what any group of 3-4 people can rape 1 person easy, 3-4 aimed shots dead, 4 rail shot procs dead, what people are mad about is that juggs can just jump in and smash noobs, they mad cause they cordinated, if your fighting 4 people you will die its gg end of story, and smart people focus dps to kil someone

 

Thank you, someone with common sense.

[Karkais]

The only thing that annoys me in smash builds is that they get the top of the damage charts due to doing so much aoe. Other than that everything is fine except still too much stun in pvp, and by extension, stun bubbles. Edited December 19, 2012 by Karkais